OK, I am going to try to make this as short as possible, but I have so much to say and to let out. I am a christian married man for 12 years (just had our anniversary), everything seemed fine until 3 months ago. Wife wakes up one day and tells me that she doesn't love me anymore and wants a divorce. She claims that it was the way I treated her, (I used to give her the cold shoulder every once in a while whenever she told me she would something and failed to do it, I also was short tempered and yelled at her and the kids whenever things went wrong or didn't get done). I told her that I didn't want a divorce and to try counseling. We have gone to counseling and tried to work things out, BUT after giving myself up for her, treating her like the Bible tells me to treat her (I did treat her great before and she always told me she was happy with me), trying to please her in every way and trying to work things out even if it hurts me, I don't see a change in her. I've always been the organized type while she was always messy and carefree. I always told her that it bothered me to see her in front of the TV all the time while the laundry piled up or the dishes were in the sink for 2 or 3 days at a time. She doesn't work and does not want to go school, even when I offered to stay home with the kids and help her with her schoolwork. She continues to not clean the house, watches too much TV, many times I find myself talking to her at the dinner table and she is completely ignoring my conversation because she is into whatever show is on TV, sometimes my kids would be talking to her and she is oblivious to what they are saying. During our 12 years, I've told her (she calls it nagging) her plenty, tried working with her lack of consistency, offered to schedule things together, even threatened to leave because I couldn't take it anymore (I've since apologized for doing so). Nothing worked. She says I am a control freak for trying to keep everything clean and organized. She told me she is aware that she's not holding her part of the deal, she does not help with the kids schoolwork, she does not complete most of the things she starts, which leaves me to finish everything. After our many fights for her lack of consistency, she has cleaned the house and done the laundry for a couple of days, sometimes even a week, but she falls back to her old ways, she even told me that she was raised that way and that she won't change. I told her I need her help, I can't do it all myself, I work full time and end up cleaning the house, taking the kids to their activities, bathe them, tuck them into bed, and then catch up with school, bills and paperwork, all while she is watching TV. I feel that my kids are failing, my marriage is failing, my life is failing and I am the one trying to keep things together. Well, we are now in our second month of reconciling and I am begining to see that she is not going to change, even though I've tried everything. I am about to give up on her and the marriage, getting ready to move on, it's the worst feeling ever but I think we will all be better off, including her and the kids. I'll be able to concentrate at work and work with the kids homework. She will be better off without feeling like I am telling her what to do and reminding her of Drs. appointments and bills overdue. During the week she told me that she didn't love me anymore, I was numb and did everything around the house, laundry, dishes, kids, howework, even worked out and organized our files while she locked herself in our guest room. I guess I was preparing myself to handle the house and the kids on my own. I prayed a lot and remained positive, she told me she saw a change in me and wanted to give reconciliation a try. I wasn't nagging as much and worked hard at controlling my anger. I actually found that I was doing much better and felt better about myself during that awful week. It is now the second month since her episode and I am a much better person, both for her and for myself, but she actually has not changed at all. The house is not clean, she watches TV more than ever now since I don't complain anymore. I have mixed feelings about our relationship and whether I want to continue to work things out. I am so confused and scared of these new feelings. I feel miserable and don't want to continue feeling this way anymore. I am getting ready to talk to her and tell her how I feel, not sure how she is going to react, I am scared of the outcome. I will try to leave the door open but don't hold high hopes for any changes. Please pray for me as I am praying for myself and my wife. Sorry for the long threat, please, please, reply and let me know if you had experienced something similar or can give me some advice. I have no one to talk to and it's driving me nuts...we did one couseling session during which she refused to talk...not sure if I should try again.

Just an immediate thought, since this seems to be the theme of your post: How about getting rid of the TV? If someone is addicted to alcohol, you'd remove the booze from the house, right?

Now I'm not saying that you just take it out when she's not looking. But talk to her about how it interferes with communication, and takes over as the 'thing to do', and see if she'll agree to a short-term pull-the-plug experiment.

And then get rid of them all. Load em up and store them elsewhere. Suspend your cable service.

And realize, too, for your benefit, that rarely do two people have the same standards on what it means to have a 'clean house'. It's not fair or productive to hold someone else to your (higher) standards. Should she do more around the house? Sure, she should. Would she even bother if you were going to come behind her, inspect, and find it failing? Probably not.

Would you be willing to try a radical experiment on the housekeeping, too? Do this: only notice and praise the things she has done. Skip over the clothes draped over the couch and the plates left on the counter...go straight to the newspaper she picked up and threw away ("Thanks for taking care of that, honey."). She'll likely love hearing that, and once she sees that's she no longer getting ripped into for all her failings, she'll start seeking more praise. Plus, she'll have all that time to fill with no TVs in the house to distract her.

I was going to say the same thing! Just donate or store the TVs somewhere until something changes. And do praise her for whatever she does do.

The other thing you can do is follow the concepts here about eliminating Love Busters and meeting Emotional Needs. If there is anything between you, doing that will bring it back. Do you need help with that?

Removing the TV sounds easy, but not really. It would be like removing the drugs from an adict, withdrawal symptoms, cold sweats, agitated, I could see it already. I don't want to go to that extreme because I know she would react defensively and it would just make things worse. I did show move the TV around the house once as an experiment, just to show her that my observations and my complaining were correct. I moved the main TV from the living room to the basement, and that very same day, after I came back from work, she had CLEANED the basement area around the TV and made it a nice family room area when before I would clean and sweep. It was actually funny to see her scramble away from the TV whenever I came home..I tried to come in quietly and not make too much noise, and when I opened the door she would try to play it off and pick up a pillow or pretend she was dusting or something. Due to the current economy and our one income, I cancelled cable and she went and bought antennas for every TV, so now she spends her time wiggling and playing with aluminum foil to get reception. She still manages to watch TV every night on 3 or 4 channels but now she uses netflix (we have the view now plan).
I've tried the compliments on the one or two things she does, and praise for the simple every day things, but did nothing after 6 months. I will talk to her tonight and see where it goes.

Yes please, catperson. I am not familiar with this site besides finding it and reading the forum. I found some good posts and happy to find out that I am not the only one going thru this. Please let me know what I need to do or where to go to find Love Busters and meeting Emotional Needs. I have planned to talk to her today and tell her that I am willing to work with her and help her in whatever she needs to do to get a schedule started or whatever she plans to do to show me that she cares and will try to do her part in our marriage. I will also tell her that she is a good person and wife, but the TV and messy house makes me unhappy and I am tired of doing it alone. I know it sounds like a threat, but I don't know how else to put it, but I will tell her that this is the last time I will put up with her lack of discipline, and that if I don't see any improvement in six months, we will have to reconsider out relationship because I do not want to continue. I'll be there to work with her, share chores, schedule timelines, whatever it takes. But this is it. It is affecting my life, work, family (kids have no routine or discipline themselves, I turn out to be the bad guy that tells them to clean their rooms and clean all 4 bathrooms in the whole house, sweep, clean, mop and vacuum all 3 levels in the house while she listens to music and does her thing. Well, no more, I've had it and am willing to do whatever it takes. The ball is on her court now, and the decision is up to her. I did everything I could to work things out and make her happy, out of respect and love, but I am not getting any respect and consequently feel no love back.

Everything was fine until 3 months ago, and now you are ready to divorce her? This is not making sense to me.

Up at the top of your screen, click on "questionnaires" for the Love Busters and Emotional Needs printouts.

Also click "Basic Concepts" and read that.

And make a run through "Articles". I've been showing those to my H as I come across a relevant one, but it's really better to read the basics first, fill out the LB's and tackle those, then move onto EN's.

I'm telling you, though, you're in an uphill battle over the housework. She'll do a fair amount just to show you love, but you can't change her ingrained standards.

painlove, the biggest problem I see here is that your wife does not respect you and has no interest in making you happy. She is what Dr H calls a FREELOADER.


In other words, she expects you to meet her needs and make her happy [by providing financial support] but is not interested in meeting your needs, domestic support.

Her refusal to meet your needs is a huge lovebuster, but I suspect the way you handle it is also a lovebuster to her. It has to be handled, but in a way that does not erode love. As you have found out yourself, you are falling out of love with her because of this. You don't want to just "accept" lovebusters becuase it will cause the ruination of your marriage when you fall completely out of love or worse, grow to hate her.

My suggestion would be to read up on lovebusters and learn how to communicate without them. Learn how to meet her needs and get her interest in meeting yours.

The way I got my H interested in avoidig lovebusters was by my willingness to stop them myself. For example, my independent behavior drove him crazy and led to angry outbursts. I told him I was willing to STOP my independent behavior and use the policy of joint agreement.

You need to do the SAME. Talk to her and tell her straight out that her failure to meet this need of yours is causing you to fall out of love. Tell her you REALIZE that you have practiced disrespectful behavior by making unilateral decisions like moving the TV into the basement. That was disrespectful and you owe her an apology.

If you show your willingness to meet her needs, she will likely show willingness to meet yours. And that is what will resolve this. Take the EN and LB questionaires, but start with an apology for your own disrespectful behavior.

check this out:

Complaining in Marriage

Dear Dr. Harley,

My wife says that she wishes she could talk to me about the things
she is dissatisfied with in our marriage, so they could be addressed.
But when she does talk to me about these things, I get frustrated
because it seems like she is never happy with me. The progress I
make doesn't seem to matter.

I often see her explaining what she is upset about as complaining and
only focusing on the negative. I don't often feel like she has
recognized the good things about us. I want her to be more positive.
I think she complains too much and does not see the good in some
situations. I want her perspective to change, but she doesn't think
she has to do something different to make this happen.

Thanks for your help.

R.D.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Dear R.D.

On average, women complain far more often than men, in both good and
bad marriages. But there is a difference in how the complaints are
received in those marriages. In good marriages, a complaint is
regarded as a problem to be solved with wisdom and compassion. In
bad marriages, a complaint is viewed as an unnecessary irritant --
something that should be either ignored or reacted to with anger and
disrespect.

Remember what a complaint is -- it's a reminder that you are losing
love units in your account in your wife's Love Bank. She is simply
giving you accurate information about the present state of your
relationship. While it may be discouraging to hear that you are
losing ground, to be kept in the dark about such losses would be
worse in the long run.

More than anything else, your wife wants to be in love with you, and
you want her to be in love with you. So to achieve that crucial
objective you must know when her love for you is being threatened by
behavior that makes her unhappy. If your marriage has any hope of
recovery, she must tell you how she feels about your behavior, and
you must make corrections to eliminate her negative reactions.

Your wife's high incidence of negative reactions simply reflects the
number of issues that have yet to be resolved in your marriage. If
you want her to be more positive, you must address those issues, and
eliminate them one at a time. You've had success in the past, and
she has been very encouraged when that happens. But when you seem
to be overwhelmed by it all, and tell her that she must learn to be
more positive, she feels hopeless because there remain many issues
that must be resolved if she is to be happy and in love with you.

The harder you try to become sensitive to your wife reactions, the
more successful you will become in doing what it takes to make her
happy. The more you try to avoid anger, replacing it with empathy
(an effort to try to understand how your wife feels without being
defensive), the more your wife will feel your care for her, and
that in itself will make massive Love Bank deposits.

Remember, all of your efforts on your wife's behalf make a
difference in the way you think and behave. You are rerouting
neural pathways in your brain that will make it easier for you to
care for her in the future. While it may seem like a lot of
effort now, in the future, it will be almost effortless to address
your wife's complaints, and solve her problems with compassion.

Best wishes,

Willard F. Harley, Jr.

When was the last time you got angry at her?

Ok, I am back. I am sorry it took this long to write again, but as you can understand my life has been a roller coaster lately. I'll begin to answer the questions first and then give you an update. First is the last time I got mad at her was around 4 months ago, we had an argument again about how she leaves everything thrown around in the kitchen counter, she reacted by yelling at me, I yelled back and things just got ugly. She said some nasty things and wanted me to leave the house, I said I wouldn't and if she wanted to leave, she could go ahead. I apologized later, but I think that was the last straw for her. She doesn't like to be confronted with her flaws and neither do I.

Yeah, I know. It's hard to explain but I'll try my best. Don't know if believer is male or female, but males tend to see everything in black or white, there's no in between, so when my wife tells me that she wants a divorce, to a guy it means DIVORCE, we don't try to read between the lines and analyze it, question it, study it, or whatever. It is what it is. So, men get to work on solving the problem, as much as it hurt me to hear her say that, I began to prepare mentally and emotionally for a divorce. Everything was fine 3 months ago and she drops this bomb on me? The usual reaction would be anger, but I did not do that. I did try to talk and ask her why, but she had no answers and she was set on the divorce. If she had given me a small hope of reconciliation, I might have tried to work things out but she did not want to talk to me at all. It lasted a week, during which I tried my best to stay neutral to her treatment of me (she was rude, cold, short and angry). I called for counseling and contacted family members as well as her family. I even began making financial arrangements and plans. Some men, like me, can (or at least pretend) stop loving and move on with their lives just as easily. I digress, after a week, she began to change her mind, I guess because I tried to continue living my usual routine, especially for the children we have together, I did not want them to suffer. I woke up early, exercised, prepare them breakfast, took them to school, went to work, took them to their after school activities, did the laundry, cleaned the kitchen, helped with their homework, bathe them, read to them, tucked them in. I did almost everything while she locked herself in her room. In a way, I was being a jerk and trying to show her that she did not matter or was needed (again it's a man thing, at least my twisted way of reacting), and that I could handle it all. I began to notice that she came out of the room to check on how things were going and I always treated her with respect and even offered to make her breakfast or clean her room. She began to come to my office and pretend to have an important question, or to see if I was doing anything about the divorce. I told her that she is the one that asked for it, and that she should do what needs to be done, and I'll sign the papers where needed. I'll leave the rest for a follow up post.

Thank you, thank you, for the above links. I did them myself at first because my wife was still in the Divorce mood. I've got to tell you, I learned a lot about myself first. I also followed some other posts and finished reading The 5 love languages, His needs, her needs, (got her) How to properly care and feed a husband, Becoming One, etc. I've never done so much research and read so much. At first I was very skeptical of any of those books and hints working for us, but after almost two months of implementing most of the steps, changing MY attitude, loving her no matter what, understanding her needs, and finally figuring out what she needed. She has began to turn around and actually doing things on her own. To anyone that is as skeptical as I was. Believe me, (if you are a man)change yourself first, then read and learn how to understand and please your wife, no matter how she behaves or what she does/did. If you care for the marriage and kids (if any), try your best to make it work. Believe me, it will be as if you are dating her again. Listen to her, give her praise, recognize the small things she does, as in my case, our main problem was her lack of domestic support (I am using some of the marriagebuilders lingo). All that is getting better, not because I am asking her to do it, but she feels like doing it (go figure????). Weird how things work out. I am very confident that we are on a path to a full recovery and reconciliation. I think I may begin a new thread about my experience in hopes of helping other couples, especially men like me.

It sounds very much like she is in a depression about something.

I had the same thing happen to me once. I could not focus on tasks, and sat around all day flipping television channels. It was clinical, so it improved with the right medication.

Can you get her to go to a doctor?

Don't discount this, and don't just up and leave. She probably needs you now more than ever.