Should I consider no contact to be established even when the following are still going on:

- WW continues contact with the group of friends and co-workers that she surrounded herself with during the affair (many of these are close friends of the OM). This doesn't lead to direct contact w/ the OM, but "keeps her in the loop" so to speak.

- Clinging to her old life during the affair. Going places that they used to go together, listening to music that I know he got her into, and otherwise indulging thoughts about OM.

- WW occasionally sees the OM accidentally, but there is no communication of any kind and barely eye contact. Example: WW and OM are walking down opposite sides of the street, and see each other, but do not talk or even make eye contact.

I'm basically letting the above things slide, but I don't want them to reset the withdrawal period. My gut is that they cause small setbacks, but not a total reset.

She is still very wayward minded, and it sounds to me like she's made herself a promise in her own thoughts: "I'll do NC for X amount of time and then I can say I tried."

If she were really committed to the marriage, she'd be avoiding those old friends and all the other reminders of OM.

You mention she continues contact with the... co-workers that she surrounded herself with during the A. Does OM work for the same company? If so, she'll need to change jobs.

What is she doing with this group of friends -- that is, why isn't she spending that time with you instead of them?

And when she goes places she used to go to with OM, why isn't she going places with you instead?

My WW tried the "we'll just be friends" routine with me. We had both been friends with the OM and is wife for 10+ years, and when problems surfaced in our marriage, my WW confided in the OM and things took off from there. Now that the affair is over (the physical aspect), I've been trying to ensure that last bit of contact is over with but it's tough to do, as it seems like I need to use a nuclear bomb to kill an ant, but I know that the ant is a slippery slope to more trouble.

I do believe my WW when she says she wants it over with, and the OM doesn't, but she isn't going through herculean efforts to ensure it is complete NC. The threat of nuclear exposure is there and she knows it.

I still believe NC means just that, zero contact.

She has already quit her job, and so has the OM (who is married w/ 4 kids... OMW knows about the affair).

She openly admits that she's not committed to the M, claiming that is has to do with me and not the OM (I was never a good H pre-A, etc). She has pledged to do NC though (change phone #, block emails, etc), but she doesn't see a problem with hanging out with old co-workers/friends, saying that her connection w/ them has nothing to do w/ OM. I think of it as she's trying to stay close to her old connections, and stay within OM's sphere.

How do you convince a WS that they should avoid reminders about the A and about the OM? Should I try to show her that she's in the fog, or should I just Plan A for a while?

I take it then that you have not informed OMW of the A?

Lessee:

1. M is only 4 years old
2. Your WW is not committed to recovering the M
3. There are no children involved

Looks to me like you're trying to make a dead horse gallup.

1. M is only 4 years old, but I met WW when I was 12 years old, and we've dated without interruption (except the A) since we were 16. We both acknowledge even today that we have a solid foundation (we started as friends, and we also have a great romantic foundation and attraction to each other), and throwing away our history would be silly.

2. WW is not "officially" committed to recovery, but she's trying hard for NC. Sometimes we just disagree about what constitutes NC (example: does contact w/ friends in the OM's sphere count? I say yes and she says no...). She always says she can't commit to a plan of recovery, because she's not sure if my changes are real, but she constantly says things like, "I wouldn't be here if I didn't care about you," and other such things. We've slept in the same bed since this happened, and she stopped considering separation as an option as soon as our counselors told us (separately) that it usually leads to D. I don't think she's ready for commitment yet, but she's definitely investing in the marriage again. I can tell she doesn't want D, and neither do I.

3. No kids would make D easier, but I truly love my wife, and I know she loves me too.

She sounds like she cake-eating...not ready to face life w/o you meeting her ENs (domestic support, etc) but still not ready to give up the fantasy of OM.

The type of contact you are describing (still hanging out with close friends of OM) is a recipe for her to never be able to fully recommit to the big "R" recovery IMO.

Just my 2cents...but do a short Plan A and then move to Plan B if she doesn't commit to doing everything necessary for recovery(yes this means not hanging out with OM's friends). I don't think you're getting the full story BTW...

Good luck...

She is definitely not ready to face life w/o me meeting her ENs, and she is definitely not ready to give up the fantasy of OM, but is that "cake-eating" if she is doing NC? After a few months of NC and me acting in Plan A, I'm hoping that she'll give up the fantasy. I thought "cake-eating" was when she was getting some ENs met by the OM and some met by me. WW and OM are in NC.

Maybe I'm missing something though...