I'm having startling thoughts today...keep thinking I am going to my counselor tomorrow (who is a biblical counselor) and ask him if I have any grounds for divorce...just so I know. The truth is, I don't know how much more I can take. <P>I'm tired of hurting. I pleaded with him to go to counseling with me...he won't. I said just go one time to support me. I don't understand. He says he wants us to be happy, he wants to help me through this but when I tell him I need him to go to counseling with me, he flat out refuses. I feel like our communication is beginning to suffer-first time in 22 years-because if we discuss the relationship at all it only makes it feel like the gap is widening between us-that's why I feel like we need the counselor. He says we don't need the C. It won't help. It will make things worse. He doesn't want to talk to anyone. He thinks burrying it is the thing to do-like he did 14 years ago which led to our demise now.<P>Yesterday, in one of the conversations, I said something to the affect that it all boils down (my depression and anxiety) to my fear that he will not be able to love me like he once did. He hesitated, then said, "don't you feel compassion coming from me?"<P>Whats that mean. He feels sorry for me? He said that's not what he means and got mad that I pick apart everything he says (I don't). What, is compassion and love the same thing to a man? I come on here and read these heartbreaking stories and have deep compassion for so many of you...and I don't even know you.<BR> <BR>I know I really don't want a divorce; but I am tired and I do sincerely feel like giving up...I feel like just withdrawing. And I've even had thoughts that I don't know if I want to love him anymore because it hurts too much.<BR>I'm just tired and its getting to the point where it might be easier to quit caring what happens. Just venting....thanks for listening and for any words of advice or encouragment.<P>hurtingwife

i think a lot of men are reluctant to go talk to a third party. particularly if they are feeling at all 'guilty' or 'embarassed'. you have to go for yourself any way though. help yourself first. i know the tired, give up feeling all too well.<P>------------------<BR>Kellie<BR>Sometimes Love Just Ain't Enough<P>

hello hw,<BR>you sound so very frustrated. I am sorry to read that. But why are you letting your h control you and what you need to heal? <BR>You want counseling, then you should go. Since he refuses, what are you going to do? Tie him, gag him and drag him in there? YOu have explained yourself to him, but he is not in the giving mode enough to go with you. Go yourself. Work on yourself, do what you feel you need to do to heal. Get yourself back on track in life and he will follow.<BR>He needs to look at himself and you cannot do it for him. This is very frustrating-as it was in my relationship. H finally started to come around after I strated reading to him. I followed him around reading parts our of various books. He was a captive audience whan on the toilet, in the shower, up on the roof repairing things. Yeah, it is rather childish to have to do this to a grown man, but he came around. He woke up. Sometimes we have to be creative and persevere to find what will make them wake-up.<BR>Whan all else fails there is a fry pan around here somewhere. I think WS or Deb would be happy to loan it out.

Hi hurtingwife,<P>Long time no talk-to!<P>Firstly, just wanted to say:<BR> <P>Secondly, I think cl has a good point. I know you've been going to councelling for a while yourself. But you can't <B>make</B> your husband go. The only choice you have is to go on your own and improve yourself.<P>You are tired of hurting and tired of being afraid that he won't love you anymore. That's completely understandable. But I tell you I think he might come around. He has told you he wants to stay and that he wants to love you again like he used to, right? It's just a matter of how much patience do you have. And you might just come to the conclusion that you've had it with this whole mess. But I think you've got it in you to be a little more patient. <P>Here's a suggestion -- maybe you shouldn't think about it in terms of waiting for him to love you again, but in terms of you being able to love him. I know that's what you've been thinking about all along, but it's always been dependent on whether he loves you. <P>Well anyway, I'm just thinking out loud, and I'm probably not helping at all, so I'll just shut up...<P>take care,<BR>--andy

I came to delete the above message I left yesterday reguarding D-I felt guilty after posting it here because I really don't want that. Plus, I've never spoken badly of my H in my life until this happened; and I hate having ill feelings towards him, (well, I don't know if there towards him but towards his attitudes). Anyway, just wanted to say thanks to those of you who responded. I am feeling better today.<P><BR>Cl, I am seeing th counselor by myself. I liked your message about reading. We are reading Give and Take right now and watching Marriage seminar videos. His reluctance in that dept. has gotten better. My counslor seems to think the best way for me to wake him up is to keep pushing-put the fear into him that he could lose me- but I don't like doing it. I think I'd rather use the fry pan. Anyway, thanks for the reading advice. <P>Andy,<BR>Hi. Thanks for posting. Your'e right. I have to be patient (started anti-depressants a few days ago-maybe they'll give me the boost I need). I think I scared him last night with the D word. I told him I didn't think he loved me anymore and if God showed him that someone else was his soul mate, then I wasn't his soul mate and didn't I deserve a soul mate? I told him I was ready to give up on the marriage. He said he did love me (I was afraid to press him for a definition) and that he didn't want me to give up. And for the first time, he said his emotional affair was wrong (remember, he said he didn't do anything wrong because he never did anything with her)-of course he knew I was fishing for grounds (unrepentance) and I think it scared him. We don't have any children, so its not for the kids. I told the Counselor and he said he thinks I should keep pushing a little because he thinks my H does not want to lose me. Anyway, I hope I didn't do the wrong thing. After I said it to him (the D word) I felt awful. Later, I apologized and said I didn't really mean it that I wanted to be with him forever. Anyway, thanks for listening. Hope things are going well for you and your W.

hurtingwife,<P>Hey, don't worry about saying stuff like the big "D" word around on this forum! That's what it's here for, so you can vent and scream and take out your feelings.<P>I'm glad you're feeling better today. I really do think that you and your husband will eventually have a happy ending. It's just a matter of <B>sticktoitivenness</B> (I luv that word... )<P>--andy

HW - I'm glad you're feeling better today. We all have those days and it really doesn't matter what you say to us here. We all understand.<P>You've been so strong. Just hang in there. I know he wants to help you along, he just can't handle some of it yet. Keep doing whatever you need to do for you. It WILL get better.<P>Lori

hurtingwife, I didn't see your query about my wife and I the first time I read through your reply.<P>So here's a mini-update: We're still going through plenty of ups and downs. Last night my wife gave me the complete cold-shoulder treatment after she perceived that I was being insensitive to her work stress. Not true, but she didn't even give me a chance. And last night, some switch turned off inside and I was fed up. So I gave her the cold-shoulder right back.<P>But today she's acting like nothing happened yesterday at all. Beats me!<P>--andy

Hurtingwife,<P>Think about what Airheart said. You must decide you really love him first. It sounds like he is coming around but it will take time. <P>I don't think you ever posted the details and they really don't matter for this discussion, but recall what your H had to go through and deal with in your situation. He made it because he loved you. <P>You can make it because you love him.<P>Good Luck and God Bless You

lostva, Thanks for your kind reply. I am trying to be strong. Problem is, my strenth seems to change hourly. One moment, I think things are getting better and the next, I'm panicing because I wonder if they ever will. Its been nine months and, in some ways (or maybe sometimes) we seem closer but in other ways, we seem futher a part. Sometimes, I have trouble seeing him as the man I married.<P>Andy, maybe your W was just having a bad night. I hope so. Sorry to hear it discouraged you. Maybe she felt guilty the next day and was trying to right it by acting as if nothing happened. It would have been nicer to apologize but maybe she didn't want to bring up anything negative. Too bad we have to go through this struggle. Still hoping the best for you two. By the way, are you two in counseling together?<P>JL, thanks for the reply. I know I love him, although I must admit, it feels different than it did nine months ago. I just think its all the pain and anger (I hope). Its just so weird. A year ago, i was so relaxed with him. Could tell him anything and he's always said I was his best friend. Now, we have periods where we don't have anything to say to each other and times when things just don't feel natural. Is this normal? Its bumming me out so bad. Just how much time will it take? Yes, he has come forward from where we were when he told me nine months ago. But I can't help feeling that the last ten years of my life have been lived upon a delusion-I feel so strange sometimes...like-is he who I thought he was? Also, when I betrayed him, I was so repentant-he isn't. I mean, I was willing to do anything to make it right-he isn't. Also, did he really make it because he loved me? If so, why did he end up wanting someone else four years later? The thing that gets me is if he wanted her so bad, why did he wait ten years after their affair ended to tell me so. Why did he wait till she was dead and in the grave for three and half years? The time to tell me would have been while she was still alive so he would have a chance. It just doesn't make sense. Anyway, thanks for the reply.<P>By the way, we were talking about what were deposits and withdrawls back in our courtship days. He said the big deposit for him was that I made him feel needed. When I asked how I made him feel that way, he couldn't come up with anything specific-he just said I made him feel that way. He said he doesn't know if I need him now or not. Huh? I almost died over this and he doesn't know if I need him. I'm practically driving myself nuts trying to save us...anyway, if anyone has any idea on what makes a man feel needed, please pass it my way. Thanks