***edit***

Your friends are right. Why won't you listen to them? They aren't the ones using you. They have no alterior motives.

Stay away from this woman. She's an emotional mess incapable of sustaining a meaningful relationship. I know you want to save her, but save yourself, she will only drag you down with her. She has said that she doesn't want to settle down, why don't you listen to her? She wants you to take care of her and meet her emotional needs while she tries to placate her self-esteem issues make herself feel desirable by f--king other men.

I like the improvements you made so far, but you need to continue to see them through and dispose of this woman. She is not relationship material, so why are you trying to force her to be? It's like you are trying to hammer a square peg in a round hole. It won't work. Trust us, we speak from experience.

I agree with jmcw95. You took an important step by having that conversation with her, but you are still being too easy on her. If after that conversation, she still wanted to go see JO, I would told her not to come back, ever.
This woman is not fit for a relationship, and I am becoming more convinced that you have no one but yourself to blame for being in this situation. You want to be able to save her. And saving her requires there to be some crisis. To fulfill your need to save someone, you will unconsciously seek out unhealthy relationships. I would try to get some help to explore that possibility so you can heal yourself.

Also, don't take your friends so lightly. Your friends see something that you have intentionally blinded yourself to due to how attractive you say she is. Simply put, you are thinking with the wrong head. If you were able to look at this relationship objectively, you would probably completely understand why your friends have not accepted her. She is toxic!

I'll reiterate my belief that if you want to end this limbo you are in, you have to break all contact with her. She will only value you when she sees you are serious about leaving her. I think you should leave her for good though. Don't look back.

Because I'm naive, stupid, and hopelessly optimistic. Because I can't imagine the thought of her not being in my life, even after all she's put me through. Because a part of me thinks that if we get through this successfully, then there's nothing worse than can come along that we can't face together.

Because I love her.

What a crock. That is not love; it's creating a situation in which you think you look good; that's your payoff, not love.

Do you not see that you have deep-seated FOO issues that cause you to undermine yourself so that you can prop yourself by 'saving' someone else?

Get to a doctor and start learning to have self-respect for yourself.

I'm sorry, but what you're doing is self-destruction to the nth degree. All so you can say you taught this PYT how to drive, helped her get stable, became her go-to guy, saved her from one scrape after another. So you were her savior. For what? So she can laugh at you behind your back? Do you have any idea what those people at JO's are saying about you, as they lay around getting wasted and passing STDs to each other? They're probably comparing you to them, and laughing about it, if you know what I mean.

Maybe you do, but you can't help yourself, because if you had to give up being someone's savior, then you wouldn't feel you were worth anything.

How sad is that?

Think about it: If 99 people in a room see a situation one way, and one person sees it another way, which way is more likely the right answer? Stop groveling. Have the newspaper out when she gets back and do your last saving act - help her find an apartment. At least then you don't have to be paying for her to go scr&w a bunch of other guys.

I got news for you. This is not going to work out. A wise country singer once sang:

Know when to hold'em
Know when to fold'em
Know when to walk away
Know when to run.

It's time to fold'em and run before you lose any more money and emotional well-being.

I don't do things to make myself look good. I don't brag about teaching her how to drive, get a car, etc., to others. I did all that for her, not for me.

What's FOO and PYT?

"Because I can't imagine the thought of her not being in my life, even after all she's put me through. Because a part of me thinks that if we get through this successfully, then there's nothing worse than can come along that we can't face together."

Nothing worse? How about you at home with 3 kids and wifey out at the bars all night?

Family Of Origin

Pretty Young Thing


I agree with much of what Cat said, and I will just throw in that it seems more important that you have an attractive girlfriend than a caring decent girlfriend.

There is no way I would want to relive this history with someone. Can you tell a happy story to your children on how you met and dated? Or will it be forever tainted by her whoring around? Yuck.

You CAN find another attractive woman who won't treat you this way...

As I've said before, with the exception of this last month, yes, I had a happy story to tell. We shared so many common interests until she discovered the joys of alcohol and lecherous attention.

I'll admit that it was initially her physical attractiveness that got my attention when I first met her 3 years ago, but in this last year it grew to so much more than that. As I told her last night, she could put on 50 pounds and I wouldn't be any less attracted to her, because to me, it's no longer just her body I'm attracted to.

Tomorrow's my company's Christmas party and now I get to go stag with a bunch of people at minimum 5 years older than me, MOST of which are happily married, and several new kids brought into the company "family". They really are happy, and I can hear it in their voices when they talk to their spouses on the phone. It's not that I don't like them being happy, it's just that... well, at the risk of sounding really "emo" and depressed, I wish I could be too. As it stands, I'll be showing up long enough to be pleasant, but I don't have any real friends here... I'm still the new guy. If it's not work-related, I don't have anything to talk about with them.

Well, it's good to see you're finally standing up for yourself and telling her you don't like what she's doing to you. That's a step in the right direction. However, after you had the two hour heart to heart and she then goes and spends the night with another man, I have to agree with everyone here. It's time to move on. Start dating someone else, or at least go out and meet other woemn. It doesn't have to be romantic; just a person that you can develop a friendship with. Who knows, it might turn into something. You owe her nothing. You're not married, and she's made it clear your just her roommate. I would stop sleeping in the same bed. Move her out to the spare room or the couch. I hate to be blunt; however, she KNOWS how you feel about her and yet she comes home and tells you about her sexual exploits with this OJ guy. She's not your friend. My friends are never that cruel. Go out with other women. If you have a hard time meeting girls, there's always dating web sites and most women aren't apposed to having just a friendship if you're still uncomfortable.

As it turns out, if her story is to be believed, JO wasn't even at home last night. He was out with another friend. He didn't even come home. She hung out with his roommates socializing and watching movies. She reportedly fell asleep on the couch. I knew something was different about last night because she actually stayed in contact with me for a bit, which is completely out of the ordinary. She's recently wanted to take up the guitar again, and one of JO's roommates has played for several years and offered her free lessons. I'm a little conflicted about it - one the one hand, it's something she's wanted to do and it won't cost her any money, but on the other hand it's yet another reason to go over to JO's and I know he has ulterior motives. She went over for her first "lesson" tonight and actually just got home as I'm typing this post. She says she thinks this guy has a crush on her, but I didn't get the impression that she intends on turning him down. Strangely for her, she says she hasn't really been "in the mood" lately, and the last she had any SF from anyone (as far as I know) was the last time with me on Tuesday.

It's weird. I think something got through to her, because she's acted differently all day today in addition to last night. Before she left and after our conversation, we had a long hug, and she actually lingered on for longer than I did. She squeezed tighter than usual. She was home by noon, and sent me a text at 1 this afternoon, casually asking me how it was going. Usually I'm the one to initiate contact, especially these last several days. I was in a meeting at the time and left my phone at the desk, but I checked my phone at 2. I was about to respond to her when another text came in asking if I was mad at her, and to call her so she could tell me about last night. So I did, and that's when I found out JO wasn't home. She also waited for me to get home before she went over for her lesson because she was excited for me to hear a new solo she was working on all day.

But I know I'm probably looking too far into things and I'm seeing things that aren't there. She just asked me awkwardly if she's still sleeping on the couch, and I told her yes. She didn't seem too put off by it... Or maybe she just doesn't want to show it. Maybe she's completely emotionally checked out now. As each day goes on and she continues to treat me as nothing more than a roommate, I'm getting more and more emotionally checked out as well, but it's definitely slow and I have pangs of regression.

I'm not ready to move on to another relationship though. I was single for two years without any prospects (with the exception of an online fling that got a little more involved than it should have) between the start of this relationship and the end of my last. It wasn't for lack of trying. It's that the rare girl I meet that I'm actually interested in either classifies me in "friend zone" quickly, or she's simply not interested period. Maybe I'll get lucky tomorrow night and an older coworker will bring a niece or someone else near my age to the party... yeah, right.

HIH,

What I am trying to figure out is which of you is the bigger VICTIM. She runs around, sleeps with other men, tells you to your FACE, that she has big issues with commitment, and then acts like she is a victim because your friends are far far brighter than you or her, and they see her plainly. Your friends are right, and you are throwing away very good friends what a fool.

As for you, YOU are playing the victim. She cheats on me, she runs around with other guys and has sex with them, WOE IS ME!
I love her, I cannot help it if I love her.

NUTS! You clearly don't mind that she is running around, and you hide behind your "love" so that you can play victim and still allow her into your life and she can continue to do what she wants...SLEEP WITH OTHER MEN.

I cannot figure out which of you need the most help, but you both need serious counseling. I mean serious. You get off on her running around. It makes you look like a victim and a nice guy...IN YOUR MIND. EVeryone else is seeing the same thing.

A girl with no morals, no sense of commitment, and no love for you. Oh! did I leave out no respect either.

You on the other hand, don't know what love is. It is actions not feelings, and what you are feeling is allowing you to get something out of being the victim while at the same time trying to not look to foolish by giving us the "I cannot help it if I love her." song and dance.

Young man, here is a piece of advice you can take to the bank. If you have friends that you like and respect, and they don't care for your GF, then pay attention to them. If your family doesn't like your GF, pay attention to them. You are a classic reason why arranged marriages are actually more successful than romantic ones.

I know you don't want the advice, I realize you have all of your justifications all lined up, and finally you think you understand yourself and your GF, but you are so wrong. Wrong on so many levels.

Please get rid of her. You cannot save her and believe me she is getting a real thrill by sleeping with other men and rubbing your nose in it. In fact if you left she would probably not find it so much fun to be the local slut for all of her male "friends". She could not rub it in your face.

God Bless You young man, you need a lot of help.

JL

IF HER STORY IS TO BE BELIEVED?????

WHAT??? She plays "hide the sausage" with other men and yet lives with you and rubs your face in it? But you trust her at her word? Give her the benefit of the doubt?

For f---'s sake HIH, if only you could listen to yourself. The tone in which you write tells us everything we need to know about you. If you have the opportunity to read your posts in ten years time you will be utterly disgusted with yourself.

Stop making excuses for her and stop being a pathetic excuse of a man. Cut her out of your life until you meet someone better, or until she wakes up but end all communication and economic outpatient care NOW.

You know what you need to do but I fear you will need to suffer much, much more before you finally grow a pair of nuts and throw her on the fire where she belongs.

My God, it breaks my heart to see you do this to yourself but I think you need to experience far more pain than you currently are before you make the changes you need to make to yourself.

My family actually adored her, including my sister, and she doesn't like ANYBODY. This girl is the only girlfriend I've ever had who my sister actually got along with and respected. Most of my friends actually liked her too, it was just a select few who didn't, and that was because there was sort of a competition between two of us when she became single as to who she would date next, if either of us. My friend and I set clear terms, agreed that it wouldn't harm our friendship, but when she chose me, he was a sore loser and still scorns her a year later, even before any of this recent stuff happened. A few of my other friends didn't like her only because he poisoned their thoughts with his own negativity, but when they actually spent time with her they saw that he was wrong, but he has a way to convince others back to his side.


I do know what love is. I know that I felt it with her, that I experienced it with her. If I didn't love her, I wouldn't have tried this hard to get things back to where they were. That has to count for something. It may be stupid, but isn't there some saying about love's ability to override one's better judgment?

It's a slow process, but I'm trying to move on. I know that the advice here would be very different if her and I were married, as I've seen very similar stories in other threads and the opposite advice is given.

I'm trying to move past this. I'm trying to eventually come to terms with what I know has to be done, but I can't be cruel about it. Even after all she's done, and yes, the vast amount of disrespect she's shown me, she's still a human being. I've already told her she needs to find a new place to live, but I purposely didn't set a deadline other than "soon" because it's a rough time of the year to get anything done. I know this from personal experience. Job hunting during this time of year is impossibly difficult because most companies are in a no-hire frozen payroll mode, plus several days off and other end-of-year activities, etc. The same is going to be true of her trying to find her own place (at best), and with her budget, she'll really have to make sure it's the RIGHT place and something she can afford. I can't simply put her out on the street. Even if this last year doesn't mean anything to her anymore, it still means something to me, and I've never been a cruel person.

Hold the phone, Big Time!! I said go on some DATES! I never said jump into a relationship! There's nothing wrong with going out for coffee with someone of the opposite sex and enjoying each others company and conversation with nothing more expected. As far as her telling you that the OM wasn't there and she slept on the couch, I'd take that with a grain of salt. She now knows how you feel and she knows she's walking on eggshells. Therefore, she may tell you things that you want to hear that's not going to hurt you. In my opinion, I'd move on with life. It might be possible that if she sees you moving on without her i.e. going out with friends or on the occasional date (not a relationship!), then it might snap her out of her "phase". Personally, I would move on for my own sanity!

(snip)


Oh boy...

Let me guess - she said things that made you feel very guilty about insisting that she not go to JO's, right?

You.. Are.. Being.. GASLIGHTED!

If, after your talk about how you felt when she went there, she still decided to go there, that action alone should be enough to tell you how she really feels about you.

Her bags should have been on the doorstep awaiting her return.

Ya think?


Actually, when someone's spouse goes out wh0ring every week, tells her 'boyfriend' about how many men she has scr&wed, spends the night regularly with these men, CALLS her 'boyfriend' from these men's house just so he won't forget what she's doing and keep pining for her and will put her back on her pedestal when she finally comes hom...NO, we DON'T tell these men to keep that wife. We tell him to run for the hills as fast as his legs will carry him.

Tell me exactly what in her actions you consider to be love for YOU? The part where she sleeps with other men? The part where she tells you her gory details? The part where she doesn't spend the night with you but expects you to pay her room and board? The part where you tell her how you feel and how she's killing you by going over there, and within an hour or two, she is back over there?

btw, you may notice that (remember the 99 and the 1?) every poster after me said the exact same thing? That you have a savior complex? That she's using you?

We're not trying to browbeat you; we're trying to save you from a lifetime of misery. Sure, she's got great qualities, if you can forget the cheating, lying, rubbing SF with other men in your face when she knows how you feel. But men who physically and mentally abuse their wives are amazingly nice people, too - until they 'condition' the spouse to accept whatever crap they dish out; then they drop the nice act, and just drag her along like a pet.

You can't see it because you're inside it. You 'love' her because you can't have her and it's killing you; the more you can't have her, the more you love her, right? That is human nature. Not love.

Pack all her stuff, drive over to JO's, and drop it off in his driveway. That's not cruel. That's where she wants to be, anyway.

In my defense (and hers), I asked to know these things in the beginning, because any further actions beyond the initial one mattered a great deal in whether or not this could be repaired. I told her to be honest with me, and she has been as far as I'm aware. She's never really been able to lie to me. She tried covering up the details the first time and I could tell she wasn't being truthful. It's just something I can sense.

Also, I'm not paying for her room and board; we split rent evenly, and we alternate on buying household items. She pays as much as I do with the exception of cable/internet and utilities.

I'll concede your last point though... I can't argue with that. That's why I'm trying to move on, because she clearly doesn't care and she'll continue to do what she wants without regard for my feelings.


On the plus side, she never completely unpacked. A lot of her stuff is still in crates. She has a lot of other things that would take forever to pack back up though... and with 6 people already living in a 2-bedroom apartment, there's no way she could fit. When we were talking the other night, and she asked me where she's supposed to go, I actually brought up JO's place. She laughed and said there's no way her stuff could fit there - and it's true. Her only alternative at this point is back with her dad, and that's no easy feat either. It's already 4 people in a very small 3-bedroom apartment.

I went to bed shortly after posting my last message last night. I walked by the bedroom she's staying in and she asked me to get her a couple more blankets from the hallway closet - not a big deal. She was already laying down and she sleeps in just her underwear, so it would've been awkward for her to get up and get them, and I was standing right there anyway. I asked if she had everything she needed, and she said she was set except for having another body next to her to keep her warm at night. I was a little brutally honest and mean in my response. My words were "Yeah, well... you brought this on yourself. You're the one who threw away everything we had together." She responded with an abrupt "I know. Okay, good night." I could tell my words stung her, but I'm rapidly approaching the point where I don't care.

Does sister know GF goes out and bangs other guys and then comes back to tell you about it?


I think most of the readers here would beg to differ.


What you have is an unhealthy infatuation with this woman. Here's the wikipedia entry for infatuation.

Infatuation is the state of being completely carried away by unreasoned passion or love; addictive love. Usually one is inspired with an intense but short-lived passion or admiration for someone.

Infatuation is common emotion characterized by unrealistic expectations of blissful passion without positive relationship growth or development. Infatuation is distinguished by a lack of trust, loyalty, commitment, and reciprocity. In the case of infatuation there is more often than not an obsessor and an object of desire (generally unattainable). One may come to the conclusion that unlike love infatuation is not mutual.


I'd say this describes your situation perfectly. If you truly love this woman you will cut her off so she can come to her senses. Enabling someone is not loving them. Enabling someone so they continue to abuse you is not loving yourself. You can't always help how you feel, but YOU are responsible for YOUR actions, just like SHE is responsible for HER actions. Do as catperson suggested and drop her things in JO's driveway the next time she goes over there. She might come crawling back with a new outlook if she thinks you finally grew a set of nads.