I'm not advocating a fight in front of the kids. I advocate agreeing with WW what will be discussed and then do it.

Yes, you did the right thing, Erich. The kids had to be told.

Ok, I'll look into this. It just so happens that I am extremely financially strapped at the minute because I got my money tied up in a house rehab project. Bad timing on my behalf. I'll have to do some juggling with finances and hopefully sell or rent out the house when it's done so that I can free up the money it will take to go through all of this legal mess and other stuff...

Ok, I knew that you were in favor of exposing to children. I've seen it advised in many other threads here too.

The problem is that the WW is not likely to agree to any such thing and it usually just becomes a huge fight, resulting in the children never getting the truth.

I already know what apartment complex they are moving to. I would be VERY curious to find out where OM lives though and to find out where WW is storing her stuff and where she goes for sure every time she leaves.... But it's mostly for my morbid curiosity...

WW doesn't want to keep my child away from me completely. She has always encouraged her exes to spend time with their kids and she wants me to have every other weekend and two nights per week with my child. But I don't want to be an every other weekend and 3 hours per week Dad. I don't feel that my wife should be raising our child if she is going to be a serial cheater. That teaches a horrible and destructive lesson to the kids..

If it had been me, I would have stopped short of saying it was because she wanted to be with OM. I would have told the kids they needed to ask WW why she was moving.

The idea is to give the kids all of the pertinent facts, such as the OM's name and explain that this is adultery and why adultery is immoral, why they are moving, etc. The goal is to get them the truth before the WS has a chance to get them her "truth," which is usually a justification of adultery or a story that greatly distorts/skips the facts. If the child gets the truth from the BS before that happens, he is better equipped to handle the situation.

The reason the WS is not involved is because he/she is unlikely to be truthful and even more unlikely to cooperate.

Agree!

Your WW intends to move out and take your child and give you two nights a week plus every other weekend???

I don't know if you can wing it...but outside a court order you don't have to agree to anything. Her demands are no more binding than your demands. You both have jt custody and can, without court order, can take your child at anytime from anyone (meaning if the child is with grandma and wife isn't there...you can go pick him up and they legally have to give him to you...same with any daycare provider).

If you don't want to fight about it right now (meaning petitioning the court for temporary custody)...you could simple demand 50-50 as a temporary custody agreement. Even if she says no...she's NOT going to just deny you all visitation because if she does that she'll be punished later under the parental alienation rules. Thus, you just state you won't agree with her demands and that her demands are unreasonable. If she won't agree with 50-50 then you'll just unilaterally keep your child for an equal number of days that she keeps your child from here on out. She keeps the kid 5 days and then "allows" you visitation, you keep him 5 days. She keeps him 10 days...you get 10 days. It's really easy, avoids a fight and guarantees you, at least 50-50 custody.

Who knows...she may just expect you to be ok with the 2 nights a week and every other weekend. She may LIKE you to have/take more. She's got her hands full with 3 kids and a OM. You may be able to take advantage of her misplaced priorities. Mortarman, that used to post here, agreed to a temporary visitation schedule 3 days, 3 days, 3 days, 3 days. This enabled him to document and acquire more visitation as his wife had to work the occassional night or she had weekend plans (go figure) and he'd get extra days/nights. You see the 3 days were different days each week which creates conflicts in her schedule (but NEVER yours). He never gave up his time and in the end won primary custody. The rolling 3 or 4 day temporary agreement is a great way to handle temporary custody consent agreements. It avoids court while you still try to bust up the affair and see if you can or want to save your marriage.

Good luck,
Mr. Wondering

Great advice, Mr Wondering. I like the 3-day on-off plan. The only question I have is what to do with my son while I'm at work. Wouldn't courts think it better to have my son be at Mom's during the day instead of a child care facility? I think my brother-in-law and his wife would be ok with watching my son during the day. I'll have to hit them up...

How would it work if we split the days like this: I keep our son from 6PM to 6AM, and she keeps him 6AM to 6PM? That's really the only times I would get to spend with him any way except on weekends....

UPDATE: I've discovered by having my wife followed tonight, that she has actually gotten a government subsidized apartment (same complex she lived out before we married). She's been moving stuff into it already. So, it's just a matter of how quickly she can get her things moved before my kids are gone.

She's actually going to mooch off your tax dollars when she has a perfectly willing husband to support her. Not only that, she jumped ahead of a 1-year waiting list because the landlord remembers her and is happy to rent to her again since she was a responsible tenant...

Why is it so easy for her to destroy our family?

So when she moves out, it's basically Plan B time right? I've just got to figure out how to do child exchanges without talking to her...

Great advice, Mr Wondering. I like the 3-day on-off plan. The only question I have is what to do with my son while I'm at work. Wouldn't courts think it better to have my son be at Mom's during the day instead of a child care facility?

Maybe...but you're not in court, yet, and even if you were the court may like you and your attorney better and give you custody based upon the fact your home is the more consistent familiar surrounding and better vs. her government funded ghetto apartment. You just have to do whatever you can to demonstrate that you can handle full custody in the event you get and take a chance to ever pursue it legally. This is where a temporary agreement helps. Instead of fighting in court right now (where a judge may give workdays to your wife based upon your above presumption) you pursue/undertake a 50-50 agreeement and utilize it to demonstrate you can handle 50-50 better than she can before asking for more than 50-50.

I think my brother-in-law and his wife would be ok with watching my son during the day. I'll have to hit them up...

This would be an excellant idea. Especially if your [wait...bro-in-law?...is this your wife's brother? He'd help you win custody because?????]. anyway...A relatives home, where presumably cousins will also be is a great idea. Be sure to have day-care or other back up care arranged for when they are on vacation or sick. I presume their home beats an apartment with 5 people in it hands down. I also hope there kids go to the same elementary are your 2.5 year old will, eventually. I presume it's a better school district than the apartment. Crime is likely pretty high around the apartment as well..so you got that going for you

How would it work if we split the days like this: I keep our son from 6PM to 6AM, and she keeps him 6AM to 6PM? That's really the only times I would get to spend with him any way except on weekends....

Very unlikely she'd agree to that as child support, tax deductions and likely government assistance are all based upon overnights. This plan would essentially be 100% custody to you. If she falls for it...great. Considering you're her third baby-daddy, I doubt she will.

UPDATE: I've discovered by having my wife followed tonight, that she has actually gotten a government subsidized apartment (same complex she lived out before we married). She's been moving stuff into it already. So, it's just a matter of how quickly she can get her things moved before my kids are gone.

Amazing. BTW...can or will the government bill you for this in any way. Also...marital assets are just that, marital. Until a court divides them up they don't leave. She can take her personal property and that of your stepchildren, nothing more absent a court order dividing marital assets. Change the locks as soon as she's out. She shouldn't be taking all YOUR kids clothes and toys. Not even the crib, if there still is one

She's actually going to mooch off your tax dollars when she has a perfectly willing husband to support her. Not only that, she jumped ahead of a 1-year waiting list because the landlord remembers her and is happy to rent to her again since she was a responsible tenant...

Why is it so easy for her to destroy our family?

So when she moves out, it's basically Plan B time right? I've just got to figure out how to do child exchanges without talking to her...

Yes and no. Many people do choose to do Plan B about 10-14 days after the spouse moves out (it usually takes some time to get the new arrangement and logistics in order before you can go completely dark). However, Plan B is not as likely to work as well as Plan A and if you've got the energy and desire to continue Plan A, you can. I just checked and your D-day was 10-1-08. So it's been awhile fighting this. You've only been at this MB thing a few weeks but your behavior before MB likely wasn't that bad. So it probably is Plan B time. I'm not encouraged that it will help save your marriage but it will certainly help you.

Won't your WW eventually be working also?

If so, I'd think a single daycare during the day (commercial daycare, your bro-in-law, whatever) would be the best for your child, because it will be the same every day.

While custody may be determined in some places by where the child spends the night, I know for a fact it's determined in some states by who is the child's main provider. So if your WW has the child during the day and is providing meals, laundry, play time, doctor visits, outings, bath time, etc. then you are shooting yourself in the foot with a 6 pm - 6 am setup.

I like the 3 day on, 3 day off much better, with documentation of what extra days you pick up.

good point, turtlehead!

Can you get her kicked out of the government subsidized housing because her household gross income is to high? Just a question.

I have considered going to her landlord to tell the landlord that WW is still married and therefore does not qualify for government subsidy and see if he wants to take the chance of having a tenant that he won't be collecting any rent for....

BUT, if I don't interfere with her moving out with the kids, that may play to my favor because she's moving to a worse situation..... So I haven't done anything to interfere with her moving. I'm hoping that the attorney will give me some advice on this topic Thursday...

I've been speaking with brother and sister in law. They are very ticked with my WW. They offered to watch my son and support me in ANY way possible. They said they'd even testify in court for me. The sister-in-law is my WW's sister. They are both awesome. They do have three kids so my boy would be with his cousins. Bro and Sis in-law said they would never allow OM in their home... I have a good relationship with them. My WW doesn't particularly get along well with this sister, which is good for me.

Erich, where are your parents in all this? Have you spoken to them? Are they supporting you?

My Dad lives about 1 day drive away in one direction and Mom lives about 4.5 hours in another direction. I haven't told either of them what's going on yet. I didn't want to worry them and I wanted to save my wife's image with them in case things worked out. But now it's past that.

I am pretty sure that my Mom would move up here to help take care of my son if I asked her. I'm thinking about the possibilities.

Your momma is going to kill you for not telling her sooner. You need her support, Erich. She can be a great source of support. Don't protect your W from the fallout.

Lets say you do end up reconciling. Your W can apologize to your mother and repair the relationship.

Ahh....Melody, you don't know the personalities. My mother is the LAST person I would tell. She'd insert herself right into the middle of it, and run her mouth all over the family.

Ericch, I told my 14 year old twins on D-day. They heard the raucous fight upstairs, I went down and sat them down and said your mother is having a sexual affair with another man. This is going to change our lives but I want you to feel secure and know that we both love you.

They knew who the OM was. They went upstairs, screamed at her "I hate you, how could you think you wouldn't get caught?" etc.

I snagged them and left, then called W and said get out of the house and don't make your kids have to stay in a hotel on top of what you have done to them.

Then I told my older son. W left for a day or two.

I honestly don't think she cared much. I think she thought it was the inevitable scene she knew would have to happen for her to get with the OM.

Then the OM decided to stay with his W and my W mourned that for awhile.