I am going to try to make this as succinct as possible. Here goes...

I have been married for 12 years.

3 years ago, I overheard a woman's voice as he was outside on his cell phone. I asked who it was and he said it was a guy friend. I told him I heard a woman's voice and he denied it. When I asked him to call the number back, I heard her voicemail. He was caught red-handed so of course fessed up saying it was just an old high school friend.

The prior weekend was his high school reunion. We went back to our home state for it. I was assuming that I would be going with him. The night before the actual reunion he went to a pre-reunion party and told me that he wanted to go alone for that part to catch up with his old high school buddies. I agreed but asked if they went out afterwards to call me and I would meet him. He avoided my phone calls all night and when he did come home was so intoxicated that he was incoherent. The night of the reunion, he said he didn't want to go because he was embarrassed...apparently he threw up at the bar and didn't want to go to the reunion because he was humiliated. I believe this is when he gave this woman his phone number. I left for a couple of nights, but came back home and let things settle.



One month later, I found out (overheard cell phone conversation) that my husband was having an affair. He said that they were friends and that he had tried several times to sever contact with her, but she would call him and things would start back up again. He said he didn't love her and would from that point on he would have no contact with her. She lived out of state (my husband travels) I checked cell phone records and found calls for 1-2 hours at a time over a 10 month period. Again, I left for a few days, but came back because he initiated marriage counseling.


We went through an intensive 6 month twice weekly sessions. I seemed to recover from it fairly quickly and felt we were going to be okay. Two months after counseling ended, I found porn on the computer. He maintained throughout counseling that he was happy with me, loved me, and that I fulfilled all of his physical and emotional needs and that there was nothing about me that made him do what he had done. He said it was because he had some self esteem issues. Back to counseling, worked through it. Same story...I stayed.


Fast forward....four months ago he was on a business trip in another state. We talk every night before we go to bed to say goodnight. I called him around 7:30 and got no answer. I waited a couple more hours- I was getting ready to go to bed. Called again-no answer. I started to worry..this was a first. I called him until 2:30 in the morning. Finally he called me back about 10 mintues later. He told me that he had gone to bed and didn't hear his phone ring. Said he got up to go to the bathroom and saw his phone flashing and that's how he knew i had called. I find that very hard to believe that he couldn't hear his phone ring in a hotel room with it 2 feet from his bed.(which btw, he uses that same cell phone as his alarm clock).


After trying to heal from the affair, this broke me. I felt certain that he had someone with him and didn't answer his phone for that reason. Now looking back on our marriage, there were things that I questioned for a long time, but turned my head because I had no real proof. One thing that sticks in my mind now that I had almost forgotten about until now was a time when I saw him with his arm around a woman at the pool at our apartment and I saw him rub her hip and thigh with his thumb. I confronted him, he denied it, I got over it. We had been married just under a year.


I have also learned of a time when he was in an academy for work (4 months long) and that he and a single friend had gone with 2 single women back to her house to play pool after being at a bar with them. I told him I was uncomfortable with that and he told me that I was too jealous. Again, I got over it.

I have learned of hidden visits to strip clubs (one of them a fully nude one) and various other things that just didn't sit well with me. An email I found from a girl from a state that we had moved from 3 years prior. Still in contact with her after 3 years? But of course, she was just a "friend" who was dealing with a break up and he was trying to help her through it. The email was not sexual in nature, but it did have some lyrics to a song about boats passing in the night or some kind of crap like that.


This being said, my husband is a kind man and I know he would not intentionally hurt me or our two kids. But he is a very selfish person. He travels 2-3 weeks out of every month. On the weeks that he is home, he is always doing something else....working out at the gym, training for martial arts, taking college courses. He is never content.


On top of all this, our sex life is very unfulfilling. He could go 2-3 weeks with no contact and is fine with that. I on the other hand would like 1-2 sessions a week. This has been an issue for us through the entire marriage. He is unwilling to meet my needs in that area-has even rejected and advance I made while wearing lingerie...he prefered to watch TV. The past month, I have expressed to hiim that I am emotional tapped out. I cannot handle this anymore.


I feel rejected sexually, emotional neglected (I am not that demanding), and desperately alone because even when he is home, he is never here. he is either on the computer or watching MMA fights on TV. He is always willing to go to counseling, but never really applies anything that we learn afterwards.


He says he still loves me...even more every day, but that sex is just not important to him. Am I an idiot for staying as long as I have, or am I over-reacting to possibly innocent situations? There has never been a time when he has had to worry about me being unfaithful. I am so emotionally tired and I am tapped out.


I still care about him, I know it will hurt him if I leave and being a christian, I have strong feelings about divorce. But I am becoming a person that I no longer know. Advance from other men are becoming a life-line for me because I feel someone see me as desirable. I have not acted on those advances, but the more frustrated and resentful I become towards my husband, I fear that that line could possibly be crossed. I could not handle becoming that person.

Again.....am I in such denial that I won't leave ( am scared I will regret it-that maybe he really isn't still cheating), or should I do what my gut is telling me and get out before I completely lose myself?

IMO:

1. He likely IS cheating
2. You are being gaslighted

Suggest a polygraph to get the truth out of him.

Please edit your post into paragraphs, it'll make it a lot easier to read

Welcome to Marriage Builders, LMM...

A key ingredient to recovery is transparency.

You cannot make your WH transparent. He chooses to be.

Your half is to verify.

Seems to me you continue to define yourself through his choices...and as much as it hurts, his A's are not about you at all. You are his real wife, his partner...others are fantasy.

Do not compare. There is no comparison.

I hear a lot of what he does and doesn't...I don't hear what you do and do not do. I don't know if you're asking for what you need most from MC...the communication exercises (some can be fun), the UA time of at least 20 hours a week...

are you checking his phone in front of him when you fear, feel an instinct? Your goal to ascertain the truth, know reality? Do you have a keylogger and porn-blocker on the computer? Have all his passwords to cell, email, business voicemail?

Can hurt a lot to know there was nothing you did that made him choose to attack your marriage with infidelity. If you can't be the cause, then you can't be the cure.

Doesn't mean you're nothing...that you're rejected. Sure can feel like you are. Have you both completed the EN quesionnaires? The LB ones? Taken the Recreational Inventory? Since your EN for SF is higher, do you also woo him regularly?

Your WH does go to MC, is that correct? What is your expectation after MC sessions for him to do that he isn't doing?

You can divorce him based on his adultery...and if you do make it all about him, you will regret it. If you make it based on you...that adultery is not something you choose to recover from...then I don't think you will regret it. You still have your personal recovery to do, even if you don't pursue marital recovery any further.

Focus on you and what you are not doing to have loving feelings result. He cannot make you lose yourself...you reacting to your fear and pain can seem as if he can. He cannot. He's not that powerful...unless you choose to make him that way.

His path of redemption is his own...a lot of personal recovery, better boundaries and choosing transparency are part of it. He may well do all of that even after you divorce him...and not cheat again. Don't base your decision to divorce or not on his outcome...can't be known. Your choices are yours, just as his are his own, too.

Thank you for posting.

LA

I do check cell phone records on occasion. I don't do it all that often anymore unless something perks my interest. I think he knows that I do check so it is highly unlikely that he will use his personal cell for phone calls. Text messages are a different story...no way to track those. He has a business cell phone, but I can't have access to that due to the nature of his job. (can't really go into detail on that). I don't have a keylogger. I do have his email password at home, but again, not for work for the same reason above.


I used to try to "woo" him, but because of his lack of enthusiasm when I did so, I stopped. Being rejected made me feel worse than just not having sex at all.

I don't think I will make it about him. I thought that was the reason you should seek divorce, because of something the other person did. I want to leave because I do not feel good about who I am in the marriage. That may be why I feel guilty. I am wanting to leave because I cannot recover trust. I feel weak that I can't when so many others have and made a better marriage from it.


I know what I have done...I have essentially divorced from him emotionally. I really do not want to love him again.

Hey, I know that want to not love him again...I can relate.

Don't want the loving feelings because of the rejected ones.

So are you saying you spend most of your time choosing your actions based on your feelings?

Why did your WH have his A?

Have you read the books, the basic concepts...about how blind trust is harmful to marriages?

Earned trust is different.

Do you check regularly on a schedule or do you mean your gut tells you when to or not to? I believe in doublechecking the gut, and checking on a schedule...because if I base my actions on my feelings, well, then I'm wayward, aren't I?

When I hold myself to acting to my boundaries...keeping my own promises, then I don't feel betrayed.

Did you know about Withdrawal prior to coming to MB? That when an A ends, your spouse will go through a period of time, when contact is totally ended and NC is ensured...where your love deposits cannot get in? Where you wanting him to want you is setting yourself up for rejection...harming yourself?

Withdrawal is TOUGH on the BS...good time to form healthy boundaries, to not be absorbed in your focus on him...because your own neglect will continue to be dire, even as your marriage is being saved.

Your choice...not his...how long was his A? When was last contact? There's a time line chart in Torn Asunder which helps to understand why you both aren't on the same page right now...different recovery times. Sounds to me you want to know as much as you can, understand as much as possible, before deciding to divorce.

If you, instead, just do it on your feelings right now...then isn't that like an A? You did it because you felt like it and you weren't considering your spouse?

Not being provocative...best decisions are made from reality and clarity...pain and fear blur stuff...get clear. See where you're choosing from...to stop the pain as soon as possible? That's not reality. Divorce hurts and it hurts for a long time.

There is no get-out-of-pain free card.

What would it take for you to recommit to your marriage? Would it be daily transparency? 20 hours of UA each week? Being listened to and understood? Practicing reattachment, safe communication, practicing POJA and the rules of marriage?

Could it be your hesitancy in divorcing is that you already know you will not be able to look yourself in the eye in two years and know you did everything possible, learned all you could...and didn't set the bar high enough? What you left behind was unexpressed, not shared or stated?

Say what you need to say...know what you need to know...do not be afraid. Be careful to learn that which will help you in your personal recovery, no matter what happens in your marriage.

Think about it...when you state what you need, what you envision a thriving marriage to look like, what you hold yourself to doing (radical honesty, rule of care, rule of time and joint agreement) and do it...you will feel good about yourself...take back the power you have given him, put on him...and be free...

and you may find yourself estatically married, too.

You don't control outcomes...act anyway.

LA

WHEW!!! Lots to cover in answer to this great reply....here goes...


#1 I am choosing my actions based on how I feel about the marriage and who I am. I had done a lot of personal growth immediately after the A. However,after this last incident(the business trip where he didn't answer his phone), I have gone into a downward spiral in regards to wanting to salvage this relationsip. I still have confidence in myself- who I am as a wife as well as "me" outside of the marriage. I just cannot overcome the trust issue after it has repeatedly been shown to me that he lies.

#2 As to the why of the A, I do not know. In MC he has communicated that he has low self-esteem (another reason why I feel guilty if I leave, but I can't be responsible for that). He said that she stroked his ego. Wow. Hard pill to swallow when I am often reassure him about how cute he is, how much I love his body, how proud I am of him (as in work, fatherhood) and have always made an effort to participate and learn about the things that interest him so that we can enjoy those things together. I mean, how much ego-stroking does one person need? Maybe it was a different kind of stroking that he needed...hee hee Again, I don't feel responsible for his A....I did all I could to be a good wife and friend.

#3 I do a little of both. I check once a month when the bill comes to see if there are any patterns or particularly long calls that I don't recognize the number.

#4 I have withdrawn a lot. I know the reason why...to avoid pain. Funny thing is, when the MC asked him if he noticed that I had withdrawn he said "no". Hmmmmm. Do we live in the same world???

#5 The affair lasted for at least 10 months. This occurred 2 months after I had a life-threatening illness. A source of additional confusion for me. I almost die and two months later he is with another woman???

#6 Safe communication, being listened to and understood, and frankly, a more fulfilling intimate life would top my list as things that I could make a difference. Honestly, I really don't know if it's too late for even that. Probably being unreasonable, but I am being honest.

#7 It's possible that I may regret not trying more. Not based on my feelings for him, but based on the "unknowns". What if he finally did change and I was too impatient to wait it out? That being said, I really don't enjoy being around him, unfortunately. So even if he did change his ways, he is who he is and I find it very unattractive right now. wow do I sound like a bi&*h. Again, honesty, but I feel horrible saying these things about him. It would hurt him very badly to hear words like that come from my mouth. He's a good person, just not the one I see myself being happy with for the rest of my life.

Okay....I am braced and ready for whatever you have to throw at me. I can take constructive criticism so have at it.....***winces**** :MrEEk:

So you have a kind and selfish man. I dont know about you but selfish scares the hell out of me. My wife, when she confessed she had an affair, was selfish too. It is almost like they never think about their spouse or kids when they decide to have an affair.


Are you sure ? Ask him if he loves you but not in love with you. That is a classic line by all the WS. Some admit it some dont.


Have you read up on Plan A and Plan B on this website ? If not, please do so immediately. It will help you immensely. Educate yourself, read books, post here. There are lot of great information here.

Your husband is not being honest with you. You may also want to hire Private Detective to check on his affairs.

Let everything come out in the open. Stop putting up with the lies and deceit.

I would not make any major decisions at this point. Your immediate goal should be to make your husband talk to you with complete honesty. Plan A possibly followed by Plan B are great to start with. You need will lot of inner strength, patience, will power to get through this. And this website can provide you lot of information. There is no easy way out of this but you will realise almost all the cases of so similar in nature that you can learn a lot from one another.

Sounds to me like a lack of honesty has killed your love for the WH. This is the part where you need to look inward and determine whether or not you want to save your marriage. It will be a lot of hard work, you will feel cheated at times, but it might be possible. Sorry, there are no absolutes.

If you determine that is what you want, then you need to discuss O&H with your husband. You cannot change your H, you can only discuss how to avoid your LBs and meet you ENs...it is up to him to work at those.

I have asked if he is "in love" with me. I feel that he doesn't love me the way a husband should love his wife. He disagrees. Says he is perfectly content with the way things are. ARRRGGHHHH!!!! Wake up, man! I just wonder why he would want to be with me if he isn't in love? Money? Comfort? Routine? I dunno.

I have read through plan A and plan B. Plan A was implemented right after the affair. As far as I know...and I really do believe, there has been no further contact with the OW. I saw on our account where he blocked text messages from her when the A first happened. As far as other women, I don't know. He has his phone on silent quite often which he NEVER did before. It's especially noticeable on days when he would normally be at work, but has taken the day off. Makes me wonder if women/a woman might know he usually works during the day so the days he take unexpected time off, he worries about getting a text.

As far as plan B...the MC suggested it about 2 months ago. He resisted having NC with me...said it freaked him out so we didn't do it. I know...pushover. Now the MC said that given my current view on the marriage, it would not be a good idea. He would end up wanting me and I would end up walking out the door. Probably an accurate assessment.