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#2174930 12/16/08 12:37 AM
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My story has been posted in other threads. Here is the basics
M-34, WW-31, D day 10/31/08. No exposure, failing at plan A all around.

Yeah yeah yea, i need to expose.

Here's the deal though, i had my first checkin with the key logger today. OM is not on a computer at all, except for the occasional myspace. There was 0 contact with OM, which makes sense.

OM is not the answer. They quarrel (i have text messages). He gets jealous when other guys give her attention (and she thought it was just me HELLO, your hot, you get attention - regardless if you care or not it is not easy to deal with - at this point i am sure she wants the attention).

The only interesting thing on the key logger is that I get to she what she says to her "best friend". its more like her ok friend who is also a slut and cheats AKA the one who will side with her (I contacted her, no support).

Aynways, here is what I read. Not babble to me, not babble to OM. Seems like her true feelings, regardless of what she says

Late Nov - WW: my dad was still there, that's when i talked to him about me and BS

12/1 - discussion about how WW kissed OM at a bar in front of F and how it was awkward for F. Also WW mentions that she does not remember even doing that (drunk i assume)

F: (OM bday was 11.29) How was OM's bday?
WW: he says it was great...i had planned to take him to the beach, just the two of us. so we went to X beach. he put up a tent. we drank beers, got stoned, watched an amazing sunset. drive back, met up with all his friends at bowling. then went to X regular bar. where he got lit. knew he was gunna was just hoping he didnt get too bad. he got pretty bad but it was ok.
bblah blah
WW: i dunno...i was stoked to give him a good bday...he had talked for awhile about having lame bdays


12/3
Friend: Hows it going
WW: i dunno, BS just sent me an email, it was too much for him to stayed quiet last night, so he resorted to an email. I am really just sick of it all, i really wish i had a full time job. i would be gone.
Friend: Thats not good, this is where i wish i could give BS advice, not that he would listen
WW: there is no advice you could give him, even when he is being "good" it wont change the bottom of it
Friend: something about that she would advise giving space

Last week - just on YM but hidden, hiding from BS

Re: Sunday 12/14 - pretty much stayed in bed all day with OM



So 2 questions
1) do i go straight to plan D (no kids)?
2) if yes, any advice on how to man up and just kick her to the curb? I know all the bad words that can be said, and good words to say about me but really, she has not cut it off so i have some hope. i dont think i should have any. move on right? but how.





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In regards to the money situation.
she works part time, school full time.
Our joint checking is drained.

Her car payment is rolled into our home loan. I pay both the 1st and 2nd loan. She pays for my car payment (she could not afford the 2nd loan with school so we swapped, car was less).

We have no joint credit cards.

I pay all other bills already with the exception of car insurance which she pays.

If i cut her off/toss her essentially my cost will go up (all i can cut her off from is cell phone); hers goes down.

The comment is that she probably cant afford to rent any place, but with that cut of car payment and insurance she could probably afford to rent a room.

Her school is paid for next semester through selling her motorcycle last month.

I could take away/steal back the computer i bought her for Christmas 1 year ago I guess.





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There was also comments that I read that she told her F that the night we went out (night before that email i sent WW)....WW said that we slept in bed together that night, which was the first time for awhile and that i spooned her and rubbed her back. She said that she felt nothing, and that i scratched her back all wrong - how could i not know how to do it right after all these years.

I am not sure we are right together - i dont know her. I dont think she really knows me either. but there were so many distractions - i recognized problems and have been willing to work on them, but her thoughts all along are that i dont know her, and i will never know her.






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88life,

My recommendation speak to a lawyer and perhaps a financial guy. It seems from what you have found that there is no love so perhaps it is time for plan D, but it is YOUR call. You are the one that has to live with it.

See if there are financial arrangements that would be easier on you if you decide to D.

JL

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so much data to sift through lol.

right around thanksgiving they almost broke up. he wanted to end it with WW. they certainly are not meant to be together. "thanks for taking off Ahole". "i knew you wanted to end it before your birthday"

clearly they made up, but there is no way this thing is going to last.

even around that time though she was not coming back home really much more. we mostly just faught then cause i was out of my mind crazy in the head which just caused friction and issues more and more.

she tells me it is not about the OM and it is about us. there is an OM, and she is sleeping with him. She is using him for several reasons i figure. But i now believe her that it is not him. To me it was go NC and then we can try to work on things. but it seems like even if she went NC she really has no interest in me, and little interest in trying. what little interest there is i jsut ruin it by committing LBs when she shows up because i am so hurt and i cant hold my feelings in more then a couple days at a time (which usually coensides with the time she comes home)





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Thanks JustLearing. I can afford to handle things on my own. It is not a problem - for me.

I guess about the $ i was just thinking how people say to go to plan B or in plan A to cut off funds that make it easy to have the A; just saying that may or may not matter since she would have more money if we Separated or plan B'd or whatever.

I actually dont think she would try to take much if anything from me if we D. From day 1 she always wanted to be on her own financially. some of her mental issues actually arose because she could not handle that i was helping her through school? i really did not know how to react to that.





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oh for heavens sake...

you do realize that all those sentiments...

he doesn't do this right
he deosn't do that right

he doesn't know what i like,
he doesn't know what I want
he doesn't know jack about me...

is all blah blah blah...as long as there is an OM in the picture

she needs to say and tell herself and anyone else who will listen all that crap all the time to rationalize and justify the affair...

it is crap...

it is exactly what a human brain does to deny that THEIR actions and choices are of the most painful ones....

as long as you remain the 'bad' guy for everything on the planet from global warming to not touching her correctly...

she can justify drunken insane pathetic interactions with OM ...and use friend as the cheerleading squad....

and you are falling for it...

maybe we don't really know eachother sayeth you...
maybe she's right...
well if she is untruthful in all her actions and words...why in heavens name would you pick those pieces to be truth.....

are you in plan A??

and if not
WHY not....

ARK

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Do you want to divorce, or try to save the marriage?
You have to be able to answer that question before you do anything else. IMO you should give it a try, because D-day was only 6 weeks ago and it's wise to wait 6-12 months before making any big decisions (divorce, separation). Plus, the A is clearly on wobbly legs.

Originally Posted by 88life
To me it was go NC and then we can try to work on things. but it seems like even if she went NC she really has no interest in me, and little interest in trying. what little interest there is i jsut ruin it by committing LBs when she shows up because i am so hurt and i cant hold my feelings in more then a couple days at a time (which usually coensides with the time she comes home)

You have to learn to squelch the LBs and meet ENs if you're ever going to be decent spousal material for anyone, your WW or anyone else. IMO: you may as well practice your MB skills on WW. If you tell yourself it will be easier w/o the stress of an A, you're fooling yourself. There will always be stressors: financial, health, aging parents, etc. You need to master the MB skills and be able to implement them even under stress.

The LBs *have* to go. One LB undoes tons of deposits. If you can't avoid AOs or DJs or whatever, just meet an EN and leave the room.

You need to start meeting those ENs, too, so that you are a more attractive option than OM. Shouldn't be too hard, the way they're fighting.

1. Expose
2. Eliminate LBs
3. What are her top three ENs?

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Originally Posted by turtlehead
Do you want to divorce, or try to save the marriage?
excellent advice. You need to decide this FIRST. And then start with Plan A, be ready for Plan B.

a) Start communicating with your WW on daily basis. Tell her you want to save your marriage. Start talking/doing things with her.
b) Tell her that there will be NC with OM ever again. This will one of your boundaries
c) change your behavior. Stop LBs and Meet her ENs. She wont register for a while but try anyway. (like in my case)
d) Read up like crazy, books, what not to educate yourself
e) Take up new hobbies and work on improving yourself.

It is a marathon to get there. Be strong, do your part, and hope for the best.

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88

I believe I read somewhere in one of your posts that there are no children. If that is the case, WALK AWAY AND NEVER LOOK BACK! My wife had a LTA with FOM and we are now in recovery. But there is a day that goes by that the affair doesn't cross my mind. There are some days I can't stand the site of her. There are days I regret her not leaving for the OM.

The thing is I fought so hard for recovery because I didn't want my child to go through the pain of divorce and having his family torn apaart. I didn't want to put the wieght of his parents problems on his shoulders at such a young age. And that was my main motivation for fighting for my marriage.

If I did not have a child, I would have walked away from the drama long ago. There are SO many people out there who you could have a great life with, so why limit yourself to this one person who has shown herself to not be of good moral character. And the fact that her father seems to almost approve of this relationship with OM really shows what type of morals she was brought up with.

Good luck with everything.

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Arc, is it all blah blah if she is telling it to a 3rd party and has no idea I have access to know that is what she said? I guess it is possible, but seems alot less likely then just feeding the BS a line.

That's right, there are no kids.

I am at 6-7 weeks yes, and i basically am just going crazy. I have read quite a bit and am educated fairly well on this stuff but i cant bring myself to stop LBing when she is around. I try, but my emotions get the best of me. When i know that she has just spent the evening with the OM, she lies to me in the face, makes stuff up, etc. I can't bring myself to not LB about things specifically around the A. I have stopped other LBs but that always comes first. That's why i am thinking plan B of D now.

8 weeks ago when i joined this forum i wanted to save the marriage, 1 week ago i wanted to save it. Now I think maybe i should just cut my losses.






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Originally Posted by 88life
I am at 6-7 weeks yes, and i basically am just going crazy. I have read quite a bit and am educated fairly well on this stuff but i cant bring myself to stop LBing when she is around. I try, but my emotions get the best of me. When i know that she has just spent the evening with the OM, she lies to me in the face, makes stuff up, etc. I can't bring myself to not LB about things specifically around the A. I have stopped other LBs but that always comes first. That's why i am thinking plan B of D now.

I can relate, and its truly pointless to expect rational clear thinking. As sad as it sounds it actually makes you the crazy one to expect sanity from a crazy person.

What helped me was one time a friend said to me, "If you argue with a crazy person, what does that make you?" It was a slap to me but she was right.

You are sane and you know it, she is in denial. Don't waste your energies or time in trying to bring reasoning or expect rational thinking, you are NOT going to get it and only drive yourself crazy.

Take some time and decide what you want. Do you want the marriage? If there is even the tiniest yes stop the LB'ing and NO begging, pleading, reasoning, crying etc etc. But first you have to decide and only you can know that. But both paths, divorce or try to reconcile, will be difficult and require patience, self control, and perseverance. One path is not shorter that the other either. Divorce is sometimes longer and harder, but we think it can be easy. Trying to reconcile is no easy task either. Find out what you want.


Me-39 H-38/Married 19years/DD18 & DS10
Dday EA/PA 4/23/08 Left home 5/08/08
Moved in w/Sea Hag 08/01/08
Read SAA Sept 08 Plan A 10/03/08 thru 11/15/08
Plan B 11/15/08-currently
01/18/09 Plan B crack w/phone call restating PBL
01/31/09 Planned brief contact
02/15/09 Delivery of Planned 2nd PBL
Filed for D Dec 2009 Recovering well!
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Originally Posted by 88life
Arc, is it all blah blah if she is telling it to a 3rd party and has no idea I have access to know that is what she said? I guess it is possible, but seems alot less likely then just feeding the BS a line.
It is, 88. You didn't ask me, but I want to answer this. While what I told my friends and family about my M was true, the problems took on much more urgency after I started my A. Hearing my problems aloud made them seem even more severe. It helped me justify to myself my betrayal. No one knew that I was a cheater and that I was doing the unthinkable to my H. But for me, hearing my loved ones empathize with my poor marriage emboldened me to think I was right in considering leaving my H, thus making my A not seem as horrible as I knew, deep down, that it really was.

Originally Posted by 88life
8 weeks ago when i joined this forum i wanted to save the marriage, 1 week ago i wanted to save it. Now I think maybe i should just cut my losses.
This has to be really tough when she's not committed at all to the M as you are. I'm sorry this is happening to you.

Good luck, 88.


Me (FWW): 45
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M: 11/94
PA: 2/08 (4 mos)
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Look I'm not saying that your M can be saved. No-one can. There is somethings that need be done for the sake of personal growth.

There is a golf expression that says: 100% of the short putts fail.

So if you are still in this marriage, make sure that you have put sufficient effort to enable change. Clear obstructions to the goal. This means get rid of OM. You know what you got to do. Listen to the posters, they've played this game before.

But even if you don't sink this ball, you've played and learned. You will have faced fears and overcome. This is about you fighting the good fight. About looking your family in the eye. About becoming the husband that you should be.

Scripture tells me that all hard work reaps profit. I believe it because I have tested this promise.

Get in there and do this right, if not for her, then for you.


But I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams -Yeats
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Arc, is it all blah blah if she is telling it to a 3rd party and has no idea I have access to know that is what she said? I guess it is possible, but seems alot less likely then just feeding the BS a line.

Villifying the BS is as old dirt...
doesn't have to be TO the BS...it will be to anyone and all that the junkie minds needs to convince and justify the ACTIONS of an affair...

the rewriting of marital history
the
there never was any love
it never was good
they never felt any thing they just went along with marriage
it was what was expected...

all victim to their own choices....

very few people go to others that know of their affair
OR
that they want to convince that the marriage is flawed drop pearls from their lips when discussing their spouse...
it's usually fault after fault after fault....

oh yeah WS lie....
in case you didn't notice.... smirk

88 decide what you want to do...
work on the marriage on your end which is done inspite of anything the WS does...(not anything tbere are lots of deal breakers)
but certainly plan A is done with contact with the OP going on...

that's a huge huge factor in plan A....

no one in plan A should ever go to a WS and expect them to commit to or work on the marriage...

and you can't do plan B without doing plan A first..
hence the name...

ARK^^


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If you find you want to save the marriage, expose and start the Plan A stuff.
But, most marriages do not survive infidelity. Most of the time, the plans do not work. All you can do is follow the plans to the best of your ability. The rest is up to her. Give yourself a deadline and don't do this indefinitely.

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Mentally prepare yourself for divorce, and give her an ultimatum:

Stop all contact with OM RIGHT NOW or it's time for a divorce.

You might even want to have the papers drawn up first, so you can hand them to her if she balks at the ultimatum.

If you don't have kids, you should get rid of her.

Contrary to what many on this site believe, I don't think there should be any such thing as Plan A for a WW.

They should all be told to stop it now or get the F out. If they choose OM, so be it. They deserve each other.


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Thanks all.

Part of me wants to save the M still, but that glass is getting less and less full by the day.





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Hi 88, how are you doing?

I hope that you are fine and wish you a pleasant weekend.

How are the gym hours going? Will you be the Beach Hunk 2009? cool

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Earlier this week i did some exposing. She was mad (obviously we know that happens).

Around that same time i told her that i could not deal with her indecision and i agree that we should spend more time apart (she kept saying that for awhile). She waited until yesterday (a few days) and then agreed that we need to be apart. so now she is gone. i let her know that although time apart might let her clear her mind (that what she says, i know she is 95% just going to be with OM). But to me it will do nothing to change the fact that she is in an A. I let her know there is no way it will work with OM around. iguess it is a quasi plan b but not a real one.

we will be spending the next 2 weeks apart with NC unless she changes her mind and wants to go NC with om.

For me things are going pretty bad. I just had to lay off over half my team at work this week and now am embarking on forced 2 week vacation by my company.

I am really struggling. I have all these positive ideas about going to the gym, getting out with what few friends i have. even trying to turn some acquaintances into friends. but i am just not doing so well at it.

i need to get out of here/out of town. but i am not sure where i can go by myself that will have some positives/have some fun. i cant figure anything out and now i am headed straight into xmas an ny essentially alone.

i am back to drinking again. See other post






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