Read the two exposures like they are scripts from a play or conversations in a book

The first one is your WW chatting with a friend, introducing them to OM, and "exposing".

The second one is what YOU need to be doing.

See how someone hearing those two exposures would get very different messages? Your WW is NOT exposing. She's normalizing her A. You need to expose.

IMO you shouldn't continue to feed her checking account. She can use that to finance the affair. You pay all the bills - mortgage, utilities, car, insurance, groceries, right? If so, she doesn't need "mad money" right now. Others may disagree with me.

Please don't feel like you're getting beat up when folks say "Don't reveal your battle plan" and "You shot yourself in the foot". They're folks who have made mistakes themselves and/or seen others make mistakes. We're all here trying to help give you the best possible chance at saving your marriage. Hang in there.

What are your wife's top 3 ENs?

Plan A is NOT about being nice at all costs. Part of Plan A is to allow the WS to feel the full force of the consequences of the affair. This includes cutting off any money that may be used to finance the A. If eventually a judge says you owe her the money, you can pay it then.

Let her find out. Yes, it would piss her off. Again, it's not an LB - it's your refusal to finance the affair. Once again, Plan A is NOT about being nice at all costs.

What's to stop her from changing the password. Take her name off the account or close it.

They who? WW and OM? What does it matter? If you know the ropes around finances, use this as a strength to your advantage. Remember, there are only 2 possible outcomes to this. Either you will recover your M or you will get divorced. If you recover your M, all of this stuff is irrelevent. If you get divorced, a judge will tell you how much you owe. If you pay up now, a lot of that money will go to OM and you'll still end up paying in the end.

Reread it and commit it to memory. Especially the stick part which sadly, many BH's seem to misunderstand.

I know it feels that way, but take it from people who have been on this board a while and seen this story over and over. Her OM is a POS(piece of s***) and will dump her quickly. Exposure is needed.

Which is exactly why YOU need to expose. Her version of "exposure" is a white washed pack of lies that probably includes how crazy you are. My WstbxH actually managed to convince his mother that we broke up on a Friday, and he met and fell in love with someone to the extent that they were planning to move in together the following Wednesday. Nothing I said could convince her otherwise - because of course he'd also told her what a raving lunatic I was.

Do you know OM's name and/or phone number? If she truly does live at his house, call him and ask for her.

Often it is difficult to meet ENs, but there are ways. You may have to be creative. Cleaning her car, like you said in your other post, is a great start.

Do I apologize for those uncontrollable emotional outbursts? I am trying my darndest to not let them happen, but the thought of someone else with my W just makes me crazy.

Scared,

It's Me... The guy who refered you here. We met last Thursday.


In PA. there are still some fault marrige laws on the books. Might I suggest that you get a Private Investigator to follow your wife so that you can prove that she is having an affair while still living in the same house. Still living in the same house is important.But she may not be there for long. so you may want to do it quick. I'm sure in her warped fantasy she's dreaming of a day when she isn't living with you in the same house. Her fantasy might even be to have you thrown out, you paying the mortage, you paying spousal support, you paying child support etc... All the while she and the OM are living in your home with your children... And you're paying them to do it.

IT CAN HAPPEN!!!! So Don't let that happen.

If you can prove she was having an affair while still living in the same house as you it can have an impact on temproary spousal support, alimony etc...

If she moves out and co-habitates with another man... That also has an impact on whether or not she will be entitled to temporary spousal support.

You need to take some steps to protect yourself in the event that she starts legal proceedings. That doesn't mean you're giving up on the marriage... you are just protecting yourself and making it more difficult for her to USE YOU TO ENABLE HER AFFAIR.

Amazin.

In the future, I wouldn't let her know that you're being advised about anything. Definitely don't tell her about MB. This is your safe place. We've had people who have had to leave MB because their WS found out about MB and stayed one step ahead. Some have even used posts in divorce proceedings.


:twobyfour: Big mistake! Why on earth would you let her know something like this? Now she'll run with it to try and "force" you to do things her way. You should never let the enemy know what you're doing, and right now she is your enemy, an enemy to the marriage.

Don't give up! If you'll listen and take the advice you're being given, you'll be way better off.

scared, here is the one thing you are not doing: You are not being mad! YOU have the RIGHT to be angry with her! She is breaking vows! She is committing adultery! She is lying, sneaking, and justifying breaking your heart! Be mad about it!

Don't show her that anger, you're in Plan A, but use it to fuel your actions. You will NEVER get her back by cowering in the corner and wringing your hands and saying 'but I CAN'T make her mad, she'll leave for sure!'

They ALL say that, get it? They all do. They all are furious that you are saying what they are doing is wrong. They don't want to be ashamed. But you have to remember it is of THEIR doing. All you are doing is calmly fighting back against the evil elephant in the room so you can have your wife back.

So every time she threatens you, yells at you, says she'll never speak to you again, just remember they ALL do the same things - it's human nature - but if the A dies, they have a chance of regaining their sanity. Allow her that opportunity. Be strong. Do NOT give her any more money.

And follow her to the gym tomorrow and go in, see who she talks to, and then walk right up to them and ask them who OM is. Ask them if they know she's having an affair. That she's doing this with kids at home. Ask them for advice on how to get her to stop destroying your marriage. You HAVE to be strong about this!

Amazin has amazin advice. Under no circumstances, DO NOT LEAVE THE HOUSE! I made that HUGE tactical error right at the moment of D-Day and have been paying for it since. Short story, I was so angry with WW being caught in bed that I just took off AFTER I took a picture. No AO, DJ, or anything from me. That afternoon, she had a protection order slapped against me thus legally kicking me out of the house. Next day, OM moved his 10 horses to the farm as well.

Hold your ground and make WW leave if she so inclines.

Catperson,

I know a bunch of the folks at the gym from various outings (which is how I met the OM a while back) I called the OM a week after D-day and he basically said he didn't want to break it off and that I should be more concerned that the WW was cheating on me emotionally than physically. I also confronted the OM after he and the WW left the gym, embraced, hugged, and kissed, and that's when I came driving up calling OM every name in the book, most notably that he's a f****ng scum bag. In my weak moment of insanity that morning (another long sleepless night), I thought I would be making her feel more guilty by catching them together. Then I went home to unload when she walked in the door a few minutes later. I was wrong.

I passed by the gym several times and there's just a handful of people doing their own little thing. I really feel uncomfortable making a scene. How do I do it, and what do I say?

Regarding the other comment, I was told by an attorney that getting a PI and taking photos is pointless because people can be subpoenad to tell the truth, as well as WW and OM.

I am calling WW's family. I've been in contact with her mother since D-day and she does not approve, but also fears losing her daughter in her waning years of her life, as she is in remission from lung and brain cancer. She does not approve but the WW has made it clear to her that reconciliation is out of the question.

I sent her text saying that I was scared about her high-priced attorney and the fact that they had a 3.5 hour meeting.

You aren't paying for this attorney, are you?

You can see what kind of POS OM is! Do you honestly think this guy is going to stand by your WW when her M falls apart? No, he's not. This A is doomed to failure as soon as the slightest bit of pressure is applied. Time to apply it!

Since you know who OM is, find out where he works and expose there. Find out who his family is. Look him up in the directory - call his house and expose to his DD (or his BW who likely exists). If you can discover anything else about him - who his parents are, friends etc., expose there too.

Walk in and introduce yourself. Hi, I'm Mrs. Scared's H. I want to let you know that Mrs. Scared is having an A with POSOM. I love her and I want to save my marriage. Can you please help?
Get a new attorney. Sure people can be subpoenad but they still lie under oath. Unless you have some kind of tangible proof, it will be your word against theirs.
Shockingly, WS's family's often stick together regardless of how heinous their darling offspring's actions are. Occassionally, some BS's get lucky in this area but it is not the norm. However, letting her know can have subtle results. Do you realize that I am receiving Christmas cards again THIS YEAR from Wstbx's overseas relatives addressed to the two of us?? He has been living with OW for 20 months. His mother went overseas to visit last October - in plenty of time to let them know for last Christmas. She is simply too embarassed to say anything and since it's unlikely he's going to visit them anytime soon, she can get away with it. Sooner or later, one of them will visit here and be introduced to OW. It will be a very uncomfortable situation, something that will nag at stbxMIL as well as stbx.

Choose an attorney very carefully. The majority of attorneys don't specialize in family law. A good divorce attorney will do nothing but divorces. He will be expirenced, and preferably would have been in your shoes at one time or another. I.E had their butt over a barrel by their ex spouse...

Here... let's play ... Your day in court....

Lawyer: Mr. Scared when did you abandon your wife and kids?

Mr. Scared: No... My wife told me to leave so I left on January 1st.

Lawyer: Thank you Mr. Scared...I would like to call Mrs. Scared to the stand....

Lawyer: Mrs. Scared.... When did your husband abandon you and leave you destitute, penniless with 2 children and no way to provide for them or yourself?

Mrs. Scared: Like he said... He abandoned us on January 1st.... (sob)

Lawyer: Mrs. Scared, your husband contends that you were seeing the other man before your husband abandoned you, when did you meet the OM?

Mrs. Scared: (Sob) A year after My husband abandoned me and the kids. He's been a blessing. We're just friends but he's helped me with groceries, when my car broke down, when the kids where sick… He’s been a blessing to me and my kids. (Sob)

Lawyer: Is there any truth at all that you were having an affair with Mr. OM?

Mrs. Scared: Absolutely not! I’ve been a good and faithful wife. My husband just up and decided one day that he didn’t love me or the kids anymore. I woke up one morning and he was gone. I didn’t know why. The only reason he’s saying that I’ve had and affair is to keep from supporting me and the kids financially.

Lawyer: Thank you Mrs. Scared. Your Honor, Since Mr. Scared has no evidence other than his word that Mrs. Scared is having or has ever had an affair I’d like to petition the court to make a ruling on the temporary spousal support and temporary child custody and temporary child support today.

JUDGE: Absolutely. I place the children in the custody of Mrs. Scared. Mr. Scared you are here by ordered to pay your Wife, Mrs. Scared 15% of your gross income for temporary spousal suport until this matter is settled. You are further ordered to pay 20% of your gross income for child support until this matter is settled in the court. Dismissed. We’ll see you back here for your final hearing in 2 years. Good day.


Ok… you make 80,000 a year right?

15 % of $80,000 is $12,000
20% of $80,000 is $16,000 16,000 + 12,000 = 28,000 divided by 12 months…. $2333.33 a month.


Cost of an impartial Private investigator now to follow your wife = $2500 - $3000

Cost for him to come and testify in court $2000

Seeing the look on your wife’s face when she sees the video in court and your attorney calls the Private investigator in to court to dispute the lies your wayward wife has been spewing….

Priceless.

Is it worth it?

Hmmm you figure it out.

I will ask the other attorney I saw - more of a pit bull than the passive guy I saw first. But I don't like him. He's very cold.

But I ask again - is it necessary? My wife has essentially told everyone she knows that she has fallen out of love with me, has been "unhappy" for several years, and has fallen in love with an OM. She even told that to our kids. I'm thinking that the elation she is feeling hasn't been experienced in our M for that many years, so she is automatically saying she was unhappy with the M. I will give it careful consideration, but I'm not currently in the financial position to be shelling out attorney fees and a PI. I need to know whether it will be critical to the case.

I guess that depends on whether you ever want her back again. And whether you want your kids to live with you or to see you every other weekend for the rest of their childhood.

Are those two things worth it?

btw, you WANT a pitbull and a cold person. They are the only ones who will fight for you.

You are not drafting your will to be read to your distraught relatives on your passing. You are protecting yourself from the brutalities of divorce, which my friend are not pretty. And the law doesn't give a hoot who's right or wrong or who's lying. You need the bulldog. Being cold is actually a good trait in a divorce lawyer.

As for everything else, you have to decide what you want. Continue as you are and you will be divorced in 6 months, paying alimony and child support for children you never see. This is a certainty.

Or you could fight to break up the affair. Your window of exposure is rapidly closing. She has whitewashed nearly everyone - or has she? DO you know for a fact that she's told them or is this just what she has told you? Remember, waywards lie. You can tell they are lying because their lips move. Don't believe a word she says.

You can also take steps to protect your relationship with your children. You say she told the kids - what did she tell them? That she was having an affair??? Hardly likely. She probably gave them some lame story on how crappy of a husband you are and that she's doing this for their benefit. Tell them now that their mother is leaving because she's having an affair. Tell everyone she has told that she is having an affair. Tell everyone she hasn't told that she is having an affair.

You can also take steps to protect your finances. In this department you are doing a little better. Cancelling her credit cards and removing her access to any joint account is excellent. You worry about paying for an attorney and a PI, but you have to think of this as an investment in your future. If you do nothing, you are going to pay thousands of dollars EVERY MONTH to her and her OM. Plus you will probably have to pay her a lump sum to start (her share of the house and any other marital assets). An attorney and a PI can help reduce this substantially - perhaps even eliminate it altogether if you are in a fault state. And any info the PI uncovers can be used for exposure as well.

There is no such thing as a friendly divorce. If you think she's nasty now, you ain't seen nothing yet.

You have an excellent chance to recover your marriage. Why don't you try? Even if that fails, these same steps will help you get a more favourable divorce settlement.

If you want to sit back and do nothing, you might as well send WW and OM on a romantic vacation together at your expense. While they are gone, you can start teaching your kids to call OM dad, because that's what he'll be to them when she gets her way. It will get it over with quicker.

I'm not a lawyer. That would be a question for a lawyer. But from what I've read... and from the lawyer I consulted with... being able to prove she's having an affair... Or being able to prove she's cohabitating with another man... according to the state law... a judge can take that into consideration when determining temporary spousal support and alomony.

You may consult with 5 different lawyers and get 5 different answers. Half of the lawyers I talked to when I was looking didn't know the law... The lawyers that didn't know the law ... I didn't waste my time on. EDUCATE YOURSELF. Read the state family code for yourself. You don't have to be a genius to read it. Come up with a list of questions before you talk to an attorney. Think of it as a job interview for the lawyer. You need to ask pertinent questions. Like...Is there fault divorce in this state... What does filing for a fault divorce do for me? Is there any benefit to filing for a fault divorce? If I file a fault divorce, on what grounds can I file? If I can prove adultery what does that do for my case? Etc..

You need to protect yourself in the event you end up in court. If you don’t your wife is going to steam role right over you and you won’t even know what hit you. Just the thought of a long drawn out nasty divorce or not getting any spousal support or not getting any alomony may make your wife think twice about a divorce. It may cause the OM to tuck and run and show his true colors when the going gets tough.

I wouldn't tell her anything about your knowlege of the law... don't tell her about fault divorce... etc.... You need to keep your mouth shut when it comes to divorce stuff and your wife. If she brings up divorce or leagal stuff... just say I won't talk about divorce. I'll be more than happy to discuss the repair and rebuilding of our marriage. Then walk away.


What she is saying now is irrelevant. It’s what she say’s in court that is relevant. It’s what she’s doing now that is relevant. But if the only way you can prove what she’s doing now is by your word against hers in court….. You’ll lose. She may just be saying all that stuff to piss you off. You don't know. She may just be blowing hot air. Watch her actions...

A lot of attorneys will tell you that you don’t need a high priced P.I. They may very well be right. Spend the money for your own peace of mind. If you don’t need it…. Oh well you blew $2500. I would rather not need the P.I. And have spent the money ….than need a P.I. and not have spent the money when I had the chance... Follow that?

Amazin,

All good advice, thanks. I have spent alot of today trying to expose to some of her other family members that she will see on Christmas Eve. All of them already heard 2nd hand from the WW's mother, but it's nice to have spoken to them myself because they all know what she's doing is wrong. In fact, one is talking about confronting her on Christmas Eve when everyone is at their house. I'm still not sure how to handle the gym folks.

I exposed to another friend today and he said he knows another good lawyer and will provide me with that number tomorrow and I will ask about the PI question and the burden of proof, and whether its relevant that she's doing it while living under the same roof. If so, then my time is running out, but I know she's going nowhere until after she starts drawing a paycheck, so that won't be until mid-January.

I know that WW has told certain people, such as my next door neighbor, and obviously her divorced friends that she even hangs out with and brings the OM with her.



Specifically, what steps do you suggest for protecting my relationship with the children? And yes, she told the kids that she is not in love with me anymore and is in love with an OM (D-day + 2, before I got to speak with them). According to my son, she didn't say anything bad about me. I have informed both children that WW is committing adultery and what she is doing is simply wrong. They both know it. I also told them that I am doing everything in my power to save the marriage, but WW doesn't want to. I didn't really need to tell them, because this has been obvious all along the way.

In exposing to the WW's family members (mostly cousins and her aunt / uncle) today, I learned that several of them have / had been to marriage counseling and are completely opposed to WW's methodology here and agree that she needs to rid the OM and should try counseling. One offered to coordinate an "intervention" on Christmas Eve when they're all together. Do you think this is a bad idea? This may be the only chance of something like this happening since she's been confiding with the wrong set of cheerleaders.