Please bear with me as my situation may be a little complicated. 4 years ago, my wife undertook training to be a mental health nurse. She was hesitant but following encouragement from me, she made it. She started a new job as a nurse and made very good friends with a particular female co-worker. She started to go out twice a month and return home at about 4am. I didn’t have a major problem with this as I felt she needed her relaxation and time away. Things got worse between us over the next 2 years with no SF at all and me drinking more and being apart from her even in the house.

The current situation started on 6th August when my wife gave me the ILYBINILWY speech. She told me she had found her own place as was moving out. I was distraught and did the usual begging and crying for the next 2 days. I was told that there was no chance of her staying and that it was my drinking that had caused the problem and that she had not found me physically attractive for a long time. I had been drinking a 3litre bottle of cider a night and playing World of Warcraft every day. I admitted my faults and immediately stopped the drinking and deleted WoW from my PC.

A couple of days later, as we talked about things, she mentioned that she would need a new phone as I had been paying her bill for the last couple of years. At this point I checked the bills (I hadn’t bothered to look at them at all before then) and noticed that there was a particular number that had been texted at least 5 and up to 20 times a day almost every day for the last 6 months. I asked her who it was and she told me it was a female co-worker who was always sending jokes. I accepted this on face value. The next day I thought more about it and decided to look at her phone. I asked her to give me it, she refused, but showed me that the number was registered in her phone to a female co worker as she had said. I asked her to let me have a look myself and she refused again. I then grabbed the phone and took it away to look in my own time. There was a new text from that number that had arrived that said ‘your plant now has fruit on it, thing are going well. Xxx’ I found this strange as my wife never liked plants. I went back to her and raged about it. It was then that she admitted it was another man but they were ‘Just Friends’. I accused her of an emotional affair at the very least and possible a physical one. She admitted she had been to his house twice ‘for a cup of tea’. She told me she would cease all contact there and then. It took her about 5 days to eventually move out. I assisted her all I could and even helped her pack as I wanted to be nice and not vindictive.

Over the next few days I bombarded her with texts about love and that fact that it was my fault for ignoring her and I was to blame for the breakdown of our marriage. We tried going out together a few times and I thought she liked it, she however felt rushed and still wasn’t sure in her mind that she wanted us to reconcile. She had a holiday booked with her best FF for the end of the month and so I felt it best to not push things until she had come back from that. She also thought that the time away may help her sort her head out.

I looked into therapy as I was struggling with the situation and found a great psychotherapist. It appeared from my sessions that I had major trust issues and a hopeless jealous streak. When discussing this with my wife (who was now living on her own, but I went round to her house quite a lot) she agreed and said that was another reason for her feelings towards me. I had never let her be herself and be independent. I couldn’t disagree with that. Over the next few weeks we talked more than ever. During one conversation, I asked her what she had got out of the relationship with her friend and maybe I could give her the same. She told me that her ‘friend’ gave her things I never could and was in fact gay. She had not told me earlier as I would not have believed her and that I would have thought it was just an excuse.

She went on holiday for week and on her return we met up and she said she had missed me a lot and wanted us to try and get back together. I stayed over at her house for the next few nights and we slept together although there was no physical intimacy at all. We got on well and things were looking good. One day she felt the need to be on her own, so I went back to our old house. It was only for one night though as I went back to her house the next day. We talked a lot over the next few weeks and I continued my therapy. We slept every night in the same bed, but there was never any possibility of SF. My wife told me that she could see I had really changed but she didn’t feel any attraction to me and didn’t know whether she could ever get those feelings back. I suggested MC but she flatly refused saying they were a waste of time. She continued to feel that way for about a month despite my best efforts on being loving and caring unconditionally. A week ago, we had a long talk and she said that she felt bad not being able to give me any love back despite my efforts. She felt on edge, uncomfortable and somewhat repulsed by even a slight touch from me. I said that it wasn’t going to be easy and perhaps we should try other things. She then agreed to complete the Emotional Needs questionnaire having refused to do so. 2 days later, she told me that she felt it was all over, she would NEVER get the feelings back for me and that I deserved someone who could return all the love I had to give. She also said that she ‘loved me to bits’, cared for me deeply and wanted us to remain friends. She didn’t want to fall out at all. I got angry and removed my wedding ring and told her to do the same. She did and that surprised me. I asked her about the EN questionnaire and she said she had completed it, but there was no point in me looking at it as things were finished. She also said that she didn’t want me using it to try and make things work. As I looked at it, her primary need was admiration and she aid that she knew that I admired her, but took it away as soon as I gave it. She had me down as -2 on the attractive scale and thought that previous SF had not been the way she liked it (we never talked about this at all previously) I stayed that night, but slept on the sofa. The next day I moved all my gear back our old house and left her alone. That was 5 days ago. 3 days ago, she phoned me up and invited me to her house for a family meal with our 2 boys (aged 21 and 23 and not living at home) on the day after Christmas Day, but repeated ‘as a friend’ more than once. I agreed and she sounded excited and said she would look forward to it. I have had no contact for the last 2 days.

What I am asking for is, from your experience, what on earth has happened to my wife, is there any chance for us to be together again despite her feeling that it has ‘run its course’. How should I play it, what should I do or do I just accept that some things are just not destined to happen.

Does your wife now feel like she is a now a lesbian? I am not sure I got that clear; that this is a lesbian affair.

No matter, she is still committing adultery and in more than an emotional affair. I would bet that it is and has been a physical affair for some time now.

It is good that you've made changes in yourself but this affair is not solely your fault. She did not maintain her own personal boundaries which would have protected your marriage. You should not take full blame for her having an affair. She won't see it that way for a while.

You can still follow the MB program for recovering your marriage.
Read up on plan A and plan B and get started with plan A. You do not share with your wife that what you are doing in this regard...you just do it.

It is possible for you to recover your marriage. It takes time and lots of effort and will be a roller coaster ride. Take care of yourself...keep working on being the best you that you can be.

Hi Trix,

Thanks for the reply. I didn't make myself clear at all, sorry for that. The friend is in fact a gay male. There is no lesbian relationship going on.

Juat to add a little more info. We have been married for 24 years and it's since my wife did her training that she has changed and feels like she should be more independant.

Ok, thanks for the clarification.

I don't think I'd believe that her 'friend' is gay. WS's notoriously lie. She sounds like a WW....not a person who just has a 'friendship' with a gay guy.

One of the sure signs of an A is the cell phone use. That is one of the ways I caught my FWH. He said the OW was just a friend too. He also wanted me to believe that the A was my fault. He became annoyed with the slightest things...I could do nothing right. He was being distant.

'Just friends' don't talk THAT much...sorry.

In my case, the A had to run it's course....but that was before I had MB. The OW divorced her H...mine moved in with her and her 3 kids...that lasted less than two months...but that whole A was on and off for nearly 4 yrs. 2 yrs is the average length of most A's.

She told me that her ‘friend’ gave her things I never could and was in fact gay.

I have heard that excuse many times on various sites. Not once has it been true!!! Maybe this will be the first....but I won't put mone on it!!

Well to be honest, I don't think I ever really believed the gay story, or the just friends part.

Her attitude towards me and dislike of me all points to her having a PA. I just wanted the truth. She told me time and again that there was nothing physical and they just chatted general rubbish like friends do (she told me they swapped recipes, that made me laugh as she had stopped cooking for anyone at that point!).

I know that she hasn't had the same contact over the last 2 months as I have been with her the majority of the time and she told me that she hadn't spoken or contacted him since August ( I did check her mobile for the whole of August as I still got the bill for that month, and the texting stopped and there was no phone calls) The bills are in her name now to her address and are not itemised so there was no way to check.

I have been so untrusting all our married life for no reason whatsoever, it's even harder to show trust now.

I'd like to point this out to any lurkers.
This was a serious error.
The message sent was ~~~>
"I am indifferent to your having late night recreational time without me." WHICH sends the message of general indifference to how the spouse behaves.

Pepper,

That may have been a serious error, but following 20 years of being incredibly jealous and not really liking her to go out at all, at the time it was a major 180 and was appreciated.

If I had showed that I was bothered, then things would have been as bad as ever.

I understand your point and agree to a degree, but circumstances were different between us then.

Trix,

I have just re read your 1st reply and need to tell you what has happened over the last 8 weeks.

After my wife came back from her holiday and decided that we should try again, her 1st comment was "2 new people, new relationship, exciting isn't it?".

I then tried to be as loving, caring and different to the man she left, as possible, whilst Plan A'ing my backside off.

It really never worked though as almost within days of us living together again, she felt like there was no point in continuing as she didn't feel any different towards me. Despite her original comments.

I know that she wasn't open with me all the time about how she felt as she had told her mother she was still unhappy, but told me she was trying really hard to feel something for me.

Her last comments to me when we parted a few days ago were " I don't want to fall out with you, you deserve someone better and it feels OK for you to touch me now we are just friends"

Apparently even the slightest touch from me made her freeze emotionally.

Can anyone explain that?

A wife staying out until 4am should upset any spouse. It is disrespectful and thoughtless and damaging to the marriage. Going along with that does nothing but send the message that you don't care.

It is not BAD to have a bad reaction to her going out, it is BAD to go out catting around like a single woman. The 180 does not mean that you learn to ENDURE thoughtless, destructive behavior.

It appears to me that she has emotionally checked out of this marriage. The OM is still in her life, and she is still in the fog. Until you have broken up the A or the A dies its own death, she will remain checked out.

The problem is the catch-22 this puts a man in. Men are uniquely vulnerable to the "controlling" accusation, as it is a common attribute of abusive spouses and NO decent man wants to be even remotely associated with the likes of that. (Though I'm sure women have gotten that accusation as well)

So yeah, if a man's wife starts going out without him and coming back in the wee hours on a regular basis, are most men going to have a problem with that? You betcha!!! Unfortunately, if he brings it up, he's going to be accused of being "excessively jealous, controlling, impinging on her personal freedom" etc., etc., etc., and he's going to have a hard time responding to those accusations, especially if he really HAS been excessively jealous in the past.

Of course, a wife (or husband) who's doing that kind of thing is almost certainly up to nothing good, especially for the marriage, so SOMETHING has to be said to them about it...

I was in that position MacNut. To some extent I still am. It did upset me that she was going out until that time, I did metion it and ask why couldn't she just go for a few drinks rather than stay so late, but was accused of being my "old controlling self".

However, one of the 1st things she said during our "recovery" period, was that there was no way she was going to stop going out. She did however, only go once and was quite agressive with me when she came home.

She actually woke me up to complain that I had texted her friend to tell her that she had left her own mobile phone at home and that I hoped she had a good time. Her anger was apparently based on the fact that I must have been checking that she was with her friend and not somewhere else. totally untrue, but that was her viewpoint. Me checking up again. Not trusting her.

So, if she has "emotionally" checked out of the marriage, is there a way back now we are apart and it's all over as far as she is concerned. Do I bring up the OM again (doing that will infuriate her as I should have put that behind me s it's not going on anymore and there was nothing in it anyway - her words)

Well I had an hour long telephone conversation with my wife tonight. I asked her, now that she feels it is all over for good, if she has been in touch with her "friend" at all over the last few weeks.

She told me that the day she left our home was the day when contact stopped and that whilst we were together and trying again, to contact him would have been pointless and the wrong thing to do. She says that getting back in touch with him is not a priority for her at the moment.

She still feels that she has to be alone though and that she doesn't want a relationship of any kind. She did say that she wants to be friends because she loves me as a friend and cares about me. She misses my company but doens't want to live together/

That, at the moment, is good for me as I can work an a renewed plan A. (meet all her ENs)

Am I doing the right thing by this? ANY help or advice is more than welcome!

Avoid initiating deep relationship conversations. Concentrate on being her friend. Work on yourself -Church, gym, etc.

In order to establish her relationship status with OM, you pretty much made her affirm that she was definitely leaving. Why do this?
I know that you want definite answers but I ask you to trust that plan A is a process. Don't dig up the roots to find out whether the plant is growing.

Don't ask for truth. Why make her lie? Keep checking however...

Plan A,amongst other things, is about appreciation -so ask her opinion and... listen to the answers.

Imagine, thanks for that. I intend to concentrate on being her friend, you are the 1st person to say that. It's what I feel like doing at the moment. After all, when we 1st met, we became friends and then lovers, so why can't it happen again?

I didn't try to affirm her leaving, she left physically 4 months ago, emotionally?...who knows. I simply wanted the "horses mouth" version. It's what I got and I feel better for it.

I intend from this day forward to appreciate her for what she is, the mother of my 2 children and the best friend I have had.

As long as I can do this, I will. There will be no more R talk from me. I will continue to work on me. My IC has helped tremendously and my wife has mentioned on more than one occasion that I am a different person. Perhaps not quite different enough just yet, but there is time.

Thanks for the input. Much appreciated.

Oh brother. My WW gave OM a plant too. Is THAT part of the WW script?

Erichh. it may be.

One thing I do know though, and that is that whilst married to me, we were not allowed to have houseplants, she didn't like them.

Doing something so totally different IS part of the script.

There's one thing that has been on my mind a lot.

On DDay, she told me she had not found me physically attractive for a long time. During our 2 months attempted reconciliation she refused all advances for SF. She told me that even me touching her made her feel bad. She did allow me top hug her and kiss her lightly but these were not reciprocated at any time.

she said that she wanted, really wanted to feel "like that" about me again, but it just wasn't there. She admitted to trying to make me feel bad so I wouldn't bother her anymore.

I admit that I piled on extra weight but that is on it's way out now as I have been going to the gym and excersising more than ever before.

Does this "hatred" of physical closeness and her comment about her feelings towards me mean that eveything is hopeless now?

She is totally convinced that she will NEVER feel the same way about me anymore and has NO interest in trying to reconcile anymore. In fact she wants me to go out and meet other people and make new friends because that would be good for me. (I told her that I and only I would decided what was good for me and I would NOT be looking for a relationship or friendship of ANY kind for at least 2 years) That seemed to bother her.

I wonder about all these things and would love to hear your points of view.

Not at all, however, it more likely points to the fact that your wife has fallen out of love with you. The closeness that she and you once experienced as husband and wife has expired. That is what happens when you don’t put money in the meter. A successful marriage or relationship requires lifelong attention. Further, it takes two to make a relationship work. When either partner “checks out” then bad things are sure to follow. I might suggest that one of the biggest shortcomings of most relationships is a failure to understand this basic concept.

Enough of that, let’s move on to the things that you can do to court your wife and possibly win back the love that is now lost. If you have the courage to grow you may find that things are not as bleak as they appear.

You have too much history with your wife to simply abandon the marriage, though of course, that always remains an option for either of you. She is doing nothing to deserve your love nor does she desire it, she has moved to a different place, perhaps in the arms of someone new. Is she committing adultery? You need to know the answer to this question as it is the most likely reason for her current behaviors. Perhaps she compares the excitement of her newfound freedoms with the dreariness and exhausting trials of her marriage to you. I’m not really sure, but you might consider giving some thought to this possibility.

Marriage becomes exciting and rewarding when both partners exchange generous considerations towards each other, when each does “things” to make the other shine. It is within this simple definition that “love” exists. I’m taking about true love, real love, the kind of love that never ends. Many within these forums know of this kind love having once lost it themselves, me included. Many have found it again. Perhaps your wife and you can re-join that group.

I noticed that you said that she filled out the emotions needs questionnaire. Pay attention to the captions that make up the list of not just her emotional needs but of ALL the emotional needs. You will see that they composed of a list of generous considerations that encompass “acts” of love. You really can’t go wrong by practicing all of them. Further, they provide a means to communicate with your wife. You will notice too, that they leave no room for a jealous controlling husband or an indifferent distant wife. As you begin to adopt and practice applying emotional needs you will begin to note that they extend beyond the bounds of married partners and into the arena of all social relationships. Kindness and virtue are welcomed by all. When you begin to note that you do these things not just to win back your wife but because they actually make you feel good then you know that you are on the right path.

Initially your wife will resist your advances of consideration. Her “love bank” is drained and her teller window is closed for new deposits from you. But as Mick Jagger once proclaimed, “Time Is On Your Side”. Your children provide a common bond that will keep you in her life. Indeed, you both have a duty to them that does not end simply because they move out of the house. It is during those times and other opportune times that you gently and steadfastly address the emotional needs of your family. Do it because it makes you a better person and you will become that person. You will feel pride and responsibility and she will see it too, although it will likely take many months.

Insure that she does not have another love interest, for if she does, it will be that issue that will require attention before anything else.

Your wife is still the same girl you married so many years ago, she has just grown up a bit and she needs the acknowledgment that comes from stepping out from beneath your shadow (admiration).

Keep your chin up,

Mr. G