Four months into this and I am finally tired. WW and I seperated a week ago and she claimed she was not seeing him. She did not pick up our son and I found her waiting at his house. She drove off and then he showed up.

We had a 30-35 minute conversation. I laid our/her entire history out. Ask him if he knew what he was getting into and what he was breaking up. Told him about her depression, the fact that she secretly went off birth control for our third boy, and that she is currently on AD's. I told him exactly what she was telling me, which did not match what she was telling him, of course. I told him that she stated that he was wanting to settle down and start a family, I asked if this behaviour was what he expected for his family.

Anyway, she is furious. Says it was not my place to tell him that stuff, that I am telling everyone she is sleeping with a man from Wally World and that she does not want to talk to me.

She went on to blast me for trying to ruin her relationship with him. She kept screaming that she knows I am secretly happy that I might have made him run from her and that I was trying to make him think that she is a wacko.

Looking back at I can see how it would seem that way, but that was not the case at all. I was/am ready to move on, but she is completely turning away from our 3 boys. My intentions with the conversation were to make sure that he knew he was in for a fight with her and that it would be hard and that she needs help. I told him that was trying to remove herself from the boys life and I hated to see that.

Thoughts??? Now, I feel that I made a pretty big mistake in talking to this joker.

No, I don't think you made a mistake, although it may make no impression on him. I did the same sort of thing. Sent the OM a couple articles on the effects of infidelity on kids. He did not care. And, it pissed my XW off royally.
Next time iI met him , I thanked him for relieving me of an insane , abusive wife.
Their affair lasted about 18 months after she moved out to be with him. He must have got a taste of what living with NPD is like and the thing blew up.
They say it is good to make the faair difficult and that anger from the Ws is to be expected. They are like children and throw lots of tantrums. Too bad.

You're fine.
It would have been a mistake to talk to OM if you could not control yourself.

You did fine.

It was very calm and surreal. I am worried about her health. She is in a bad place.

My brother says something is wrong that I feel worse about talking to him and hurting her than she does about busting up our family.

I agree, now I just want to be done.

Someone here wrote "A WS can not feel a BS's pain"

I said the exact words to my WW in august on D-day -- "Why do you care what is happening to him? You just destroyed our lives"

Call it the fog or temporary insanity....you just can't try and go by their words or actions right after D-day. My WW still denies saying things she said, or just says "I was crazy..."

Cant,

First off, as Pep said...you are fine! You did good, because you controlled yourself. I did some of the same things. I thought it had no effect on the Troll, but did make my wife angry. Now that we are recovered, we have had talks about things and what was happening at different points. And she said she could see changes in the Troll after I had done some of these things. As I had told the Troll at the time..."you have no idea what yo uare getting into!"

So, hang in there and now forget about the Om and concentrate on what YOu are supposed to be doing. I assume you are in Plan A...so get on with that plan.

On that last statement about wanting to be done...I hear you. But here is something you may hear a lot on here...YOU have to earn YOUR way out of the marriage. Your wife just walked away. She might or might not be back.

But whether you want her back or not right now is irrelevent. You need to take a different path out of this marriage, one of honor. By going through Plan A effectively, then Plan B effectively, you will do the things that will either help you recover and strengthen your marriage...or put you in a place where you will be able to KNOW for sure that it is over.

If you dont know about my sitch...basically, while I was deployed in 2001-2002, my wife began an affair. I came back, and she moved out 4 months later, leaving the kids with me (I wouldnt have let her take them anyway!). She came back the next year and we had a false reconciliation, with her still talking to the Troll and seeing him many tmes. We then separated again in 2004, and she filed for divorce. We went to court, and I got custody of the kids during the custody hearing. She then came back (another false reconciliation) for another year and a half, with still the same story. She moved out yet again, and a month later, we went back in for a custody hearing, where I was again named the primary custodian of the children (but this time termed "shared custody"). I then went into Plan B...and 5 months later, where I had only talked to her twice (we did the kid things by email, voicemail), she shows up at my door wanting to reconcile. That was the fall of 2006. We have had our fourth child since then, the Troll is long gone and we have never been happier! I see a different wife.

The point of this was that I was told along the way that at any time, I could quit. No one would blame me. Even God said it was okay for me, if I felt I couldnt hang. But, He also told me (and many folks here), that if I stayed and endured, if I went thru the process (earning my way out), that I would receive so much more. And I have. It is amazing!

So, I will say the same to you. You are free to quit at any time. No one will blame you, nor think badly of you. But I caution you to do as I did, at the time I was ready to quit. Go into your kids rooms early in the morning, while they are still sleeping...look at them...and then tell yourself that yo uare going to quit, and are going to tell them you are going to quit when they wake up. Look at their faces and think of what their faces will look like when you tell them.

Then, make your decision.

Hope this helps in some way.

Mortarman - I don't know whether to thank you, or hit you.

After catching her at his house again for the 3rd time the other night and the 4 secret cell phones and the lies and hearing that she loved him and wanted to be with him, I thought I was done.

The purpose of the conversation was to make sure that he knew what he was getting into. That she was in a weird place mentally and that at one point she was a great mother and I expected that to come back. She needs professional help. That it would be tough and that he would be seeing me for at least the next 15 years. That I am a very active father and that would never change.

I have filed for divorce and was sure I am done. And then, you encourage me to really look into the boys faces. Up until that sentence, I was sure I had done enough over the last 4 months.

Now, I am not so sure. I had done Plan A for 4 months and a half hearted Plan B. Then, I gave up.

Nah it wasn't. He is not a friend you would feel the need to 'warn".

It was to make him go away so you could get your W back.

So, look at your future actions realizing that emotion is still there.

Maybe it is. I feel done though.

I just know that this wont work and that she will end up bouncing around after this. I don't want the boys to see that.

And, I guess while I feel done, I would love to kill that relationship too.

I don't think you're done. If you are, you should change your user name.

CWA,

Peggy is right. Your username says it all! You may THINK you are done, but what I caution you to understand is that, when you are done, you will KNOW it.

I was done after the second court appearance in July 2006. It was after I walked out of the court that day that I could truly say that I was no longer wanting the relationship. I no longer even cared if they were together or not (except in the fact that I was still making sure that my kids NEVER got near the Troll!). The Troll had occupied every waking moment of close to four years of my life. But the Summer of 2006, he no longer mattered!

Which is why I went to Plan B. I was truly done. I no longer had the urge to talk to Mrs. MM. In fact, I set it up where I never talked to her (one or two slip ups where she got thru over a 5 month period). I was more relaxed and more happy than I had been in 5 years, to be honest. In the meantime, I had fought and gotten the kids, where they were with me 2/3rds of the time. And I had plans for me, for the other 1/3rd. We went to Hershey Park that summer. Went to ballgames. Began looking at new homes (when I say we, I mean the kids and I). Mrs. MM was never even discussed at that point. It was almost as if she were dead.

And in reality, she was dead. Dead to our family. Dead to our marriage. Dead to even Jesus. She was no where near any of us. We had moved on!

When I say earn your way out, I dont mean that it guarantees that she'll come back. She may not! Remember, over 98% of all affairs end. And the ones out of that 2% that reach marriage, over 60% of those marriages fail. So, your OM and WW have literally no chance of making it. But, the odds are very good that your marriage will make it.

You know, almost all BSs hear from the WS when we are doing Plan A "You are crazy. It is over. My OP is the love of my life." Blah, blah, blah. But what do the stats say? The OP and WS have less than 2% chance of marrying and a 60% chance of that marriage ending. Who are the ones that are crazy???

But, look at the odds of reconciliation, even without a Harley plan! My man, you are in a much better position than them!

But again, it may not work out even after doing everything you can. So, let me let you in on another little secret I learned from the folks here (and from Steve Harley)...Plan A and Plan B are NOT for your WW. They are for YOU!

Maybe you have heard it all, so I might be repeating what the good folks here have told you. But, you need to remember that Plan A is for YOU (which is the only person you can control!!) to be able to become the husband you should and can be. It is doing the things that you should have before. Now, secondary to that is the fact that your WW gets to see that and begin wondering "wow, I like that guy. I cant believe he changed." You didnt change so much as you became who you truly are and want to be.

So, you take that opportunity to learn to be the man in that relationship. To learn to love without preconditions. To learn to sacrifice for your wife, even when she is spitting in your face. It is easy to love when things are going well. But the definition of true love is what you do even when she wont accept it.

One day, if you do this, she may come back...and thank you for it. I am a former infantry first sergeant, and about 6 months after our true reconciliation came, my wife came to me and thanked me for hanging in there, for believing in her and our marriage. I tell you I cried like a baby then. At that moment, all of the rejection, all of the hurt, all of it...went out the window!

But, what if she doesnt come back? What then? Well Plan A will make you into the husband that the future Mrs. CWA deserves. Doesnt your wife (current or future) deserve a husband that meets her needs? Of course. So, this time is spent becoming that husband. Plan B is meant for you to pull back and save what remaining love there is (after a great Plan A) and begin to heal. begin to work on the rest of your life. The life with your kids. Your work. Your hobbies. Most guys quit smoking during this time, or go back to the gym or school. To use this time to better yourself for the future Mrs. CWA (which could be the current Mrs. CWA).

At the end of all of that...is silence. It is a peace that you feel knowing that you did all you could do for your family and marriage. That you held up your end of the vows. That you became a better man, husband and father through it all. And the peace knowing that because you went thru that, God will reward such faithfulness!

We can talk more on this. And I havent really looked at the background of your story yet. But, one thing you need to understand is that your situation is NOT unique. Your wife is not the one exception to the rule. The OM is not the one OM that is better at it than the other OMs out there. Your situation is not unique (unfortunately). Which is why the MB principles here work. Because couples get into these situations in the same ways...always. And the Harleys have found a great way to increase the odds of getting out of them.

Again, it is your decision. You are the "commander" on the ground. We are just support personnel. You are the guy that needs to make the decisions based on what you know with your situation. But, please make sure you have done everything you can and thought this thru before making these huge decisions!

We can talk more on this in depth if you like. But please consider what I have said here.

Oh, and I do understand the urge to punch those pushing Plan A on me when I was in the middle of it!

BRAVO!! You just inflicted a huge blow to the affair. My H's affair ended the day I confronted the OW. That is not always the case, but it does cause great conflict in the affair and you seem to have achieved that. Most OP's don't want the hassle of a BS contacting them and sometimes will dump the WS.

Good job! And you didn't even cry!

MM - I went through a 4 month plan A right up until December 9th and then I ran out of patience after another secret cell phone and meeting and wavering and we need space, etc. I know just like everyone else.

Now, I am attempting Plan B. I guess I am at the point if she comes back we can look a reconcilation, but if she goes with him, I am ready to explore the next stage in my life.

I think, maybe. I just know I need to stop talking to her. When I drop the kids off at school at mention to their teachers that their parents are having a difficult time and to please be aware of it with the boys.

Plan B cannot be done halfa$$ed. It must be 100% dark. You cannot allow any of her EN's to be met by you at any time. It is time for you to live outside her chaos, and a time for her to vision and experience life without you.

Listen to Mortarman (hiya MM!) and Melody...they are first class advisors on this forum. You are getting the straight talk from both these posters.

Do an official Plan B letter, submit it to her, and go dark as the backside of a journeyman well digger!

good luck

I am hoping that everyone has the feeling that she will never come back, that she is gone and that her feelings for this man are too strong.

That is where I am today. I feel like none of it matters. I guess I am just ready for it all to be over.

You just described about 99.999999% of all affairs. I have no idea why her "strong feelings" for her affair partner would make you think this affair is any different than any of the others here that are now in fully recovered marriages.

THEY ALL HAVE STRONG FEELINGS or they wouldn't be IN affairs in the first place. This is a run of the mill affair that we see here every day. It is the RULE rather than the exception.

Have you considered trying Marriage Builders concepts, such as Plan B?

Plan B is what I am trying to get to.

Still working on doing it with Christmas. She wants to be here for Christmas morning and the boys want her here.

So you want to enable her so she doesn't feel guilty about abandoning her family for her adulterous affair? You want to protect her from the ONLY thing that will motivate her to end her affair and come home. WOW!

Enabling her affair is about the WORST thing you could do to your kids because it props up the affair at the expense of your marriage.

Now THAT kind of behavior does make me lose hope for you. If you can't even stick to a simple plan like plan B, you are not very likely to save your marriage. I have never known anyone who enabled their way to a reconciled marriage.

I don't see you trying at all.

I know, I know.

I am getting hammered by family about my stance on Christmas day. It has been brutal. Everyone is accusing me of not thinking about the boys.

We are headed for divorce, but I don't want to irritate the inlaws to the point that they start throwing money in for my wife. It could cause problems for me.