I met with my attorney today. She seems to know her stuff. She is very familiar with the way the three judges in our county work. She said a lot of the outcome is determined by which judge you get.

She said my chances for getting full custody at this point are very slim since WW was a SAHM and our son is still very young and he has siblings that will be with her. She said that WW would have to be abusive or have a drug or alcohol addiction or something like that for me to get full custody. But she said I could still file for full custody and settle for something in between.

She did say that there is a very good chance for me to have 50/50 time with my son though, which would be great.

During a period where there is no petition for dissolution or separation, anything goes as far as who gets time with my son, just as Mr Wondering said.

I need to decide whether to file a petition or not and whether to file for a dissolution of marriage (divorce) or separation and whether to file for full custody.

I don't know what I should do. I have decided that if I file a petition it will be for full custody. I haven't decided when to file and which to file for: divorce or separation. I'm leaning toward separation at the moment because I still just can't feel good about divorcing. I don't believe in divorce except in the most extreme situations. A "prolonged" affair and abandonment would be an extreme situation in my mind--but how long is the question...6 months? 1 year? 2 years? I'd say that I would for sure not go past two years...

Anyway, a lot on my mind. WW and I just had a conversation and WW was telling me how important her kids are to her and that she puts them first in her life and loves them and sacrifices for them. She feels that since she spends all of her waking time with them, that this makes her a great mom. I agree that this is extremely important and commendable, but she's overlooking the affect of her affair on these kids!!

WW says "I know I'm not perfect, but I am putting these kids first by spending all of my time with them and teaching them and rearing them, etc." My MC said that when my wife says things like that to not argue but agree with her that she is a good mom, but then assert a greater value which in this case is that you need to be whole yourself before you can lift someone else up. So I told her how important I feel it for parents to be whole so that they can be the best parents they can be.... She accepted my words and an argument was avoided and hopefully she'll think about what I said..

How about setting examples for her kids about marriage and family and morals and a stble environment without a series of baby daddies and the safest and best housing she can arrange?

She is talking herself into the position that she is a good mother.

I said to my W, how great a mother can you be when you've exposed your family to the largest trauma it is likely to ever face, and put everyone at risk of some sort of physical threat or tragedy?

Of course, I said that on D-day, and I might as well have been speaking Greek, but when it was repeated fairly recently she took it hard. I regrwetted saying it.

...a little :-)

Up and down. Some days I feel motivated to save my marriage, other times I feel like I'm wasting time.

My wife is at her new apartment tonight cleaning it. OM is there with her.

I'm feeling so obsessive right now. I can't stand that OM is there with her. I almost wish I didn't know about it.

Is it normal to want to stalk your WW? I feel like driving there and just listening to them talk so that I know how their relationship is going and also out of curiosity to hear what OM says that makes WW so attracted...

I keep telling myself that OM and WW are still in the initial "honeymoon" stage of their relationship and that once that passes (in about 6 months from beginning of relationship as Harleys say), that they will sink or swim. I'm betting on them sinking..

What do other BH's do to keep their mind off of WW and OM??? I know from past relationships that it would be easiest to get over if I was seeing someone new myself, but this is out of the question. So, instead I visit MB and mingle with the other betrayed spouses for some relief..

Any suggestions on how to keep mind of affair??

Well, you said it is a sort of nasty area, so they are all getting a dose of reality, and so will your kids.


Well, if you find something let me know. Get on anti-deps, get individual pro counseling if you can. Lean on yiour friends, fill your schedule every day, focus on work...

It is definitely time for Plan B. Throw her Needs on to OM. Cut off all communication. Arrangement for kids to be communicated through third parties.

Read up on it and write the Plan B letter. It is definitely time to cut any EN lifelines for her.

Erich, while this might seem BAD at first glance, it is really a promising development that ensures the affair will die soone. If you noticed in SAA, Sue's affair crumbled FAST once she moved out and her H went into Plan B. Before that, it was just lingering along in limbo land, beating Greg down to pulp.

This affair started crumbling once you injected some conflict. If you had not done that, this could have gone on in an undisturbed fantasy state for some time.

I agree that you should prepare for Plan B. Get your custody set up, cut off her money and get all your ducks in a row. You will want to go into Plan B about 3 weeks after she gets moved out. By then the novelty will have worn off and reality will begin to set in. Then hit her with a very dark PLAN B.

When that happens, the OM will have to meet all her needs and I assure you, he will fail the test. He has no interest in supporting a married woman with 3 kids.

In the meantime, focus on doing the BEST PLAN A you can for the next 3 weeks. Don't aide and abet her affair, but avoid lovebusters.

I've never had to do Plan B, Melody, so you are probably right, but why three weeks? Seems like that almost might let her and the kids get their feet under them and establish a level of comfort and routine before Dad checks out.

I'd say let there never be a positve "novelty" in the new ghetto apartment. And throw everything onto the OM right away. That way it is the MOVE that is connected with life turning difficult, not Eriicch's meanie arbitrary withdrawal, which is how it will be read.

Besides, just reading through the lines here with ericch and the "stalking' comment, etc, it sounds like he is LB bankrupt and may not have the gas for anymore Plan Aing....

As far as cutting off her money, the only thing that concerns me about that is that she needs to provide for my son who she will have most of the time. I really think they have enough money to make it, albeit in ghetto fashion. I want to make sure my son is taken care of while not supporting her move to the ghetto. Any suggestions?

Also, I had previously agreed to pay her personal property tax for her car which is due 12/31/08, but I haven't paid it yet. If she's moved out by then, should I tell her I've decided to not pay it since she's moving out and maybe OM could pay it for her now?


Surprisingly, I've been very calm around WW and have done a good job of avoiding LBs, IMO..... as long as I'm not caught stalking her.. I know she's going to her apartment tonight again to continue "cleaning" and I'm sure OM will be there again since I think this is his weekend without his two kids.

I'm not sure how to go dark when we'll have to exchange our son. It seems very impractical to have someone else pick up and deliver my son for me. How should this be handled? Thanks!

I would talk to your attorney. Obviously you want to pay the minimum amount, they've heard that before.

Also, I had previously agreed to pay her personal property tax for her car which is due 12/31/08, but I haven't paid it yet. If she's moved out by then, should I tell her I've decided to not pay it since she's moving out and maybe OM could pay it for her now?


well, here is the writeup on it:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html

It says "no contact". I know people here have only had communications go through accountants, lawyers, or, say, in-laws.

The physical exchange of young kids is one challenge. If you could get someone to do it great.

I would find someone here who has had Steve or Jen counsel them through the details of Plan B.

Hey, why should she take your son away?

As I understand it, until you are officially D, your marital home is his place of residence. Removal, therefore, is a possible kidnapping offense.

Consequently, if he is at home there is no longer a necessity to bankroll your WW"s activities: ie. the motor car license.

My attorney says that while there is no court petition for separation or divorce, it's a free-for-all regarding which parent can have the child. If she tries to keep him from me completely, she will be in serious trouble with the courts. I have the right to file an order in my state that forces my son to stay in our home for up to 60 days before an official petition is filed.

I am going to attempt to keep my son for two or three overnights during the week and every other weekend. If WW tries to prevent this, I will file an official petition for legal separation with me having full custody and force her to deal with the issue in a legal fashion.

When the WS first moves out, they are high on the novelty of being OUT and having the freedom to carry on the affair. After a couple of weeks the reality sets in and they start feeling homesick. THAT is the time to slam the door closed.

If the door is closed when they are still thrilled to be out, they will be RELIEVED but they will also view it as punishment for their moving out. We don't want that to be the last taste in their mouth.

The most strategic way to do this, IMO, [and this is how Jennifer suggests it be done too] is to wait 2-3 weeks and hit at the same time the reality begins to set in because it will cause the most conflict in the affair.

Erich, why wouldn't you go for FULL CUSTODY right now? This is what I would suggest. And I would not suggest paying her any money, because whatever you pay now will be set as PRECENDENT.

IMO, you need to try and get full custody. Your W is out of her mind and will subject your little son to a life of hell with a revolving door of new boyfriends. That is how little kids get molested and killed. You don't know who this scummy OM is, why would you allow your child to be around him if you can prevent it?

This sounds logical.

You should do this anyway. Her M.O. is to get a new man every few years AND have a child with him. Do you think that is going to change?

I used to know a woman--(she was a neighbor a couple of streets over and my sibs & I were friends with her kids for a while)--like this...only difference is she would have TWO kids with each man. Luckily, she finally had her tubes tied after the last time, when she was married to a friend of ours.

When she cheated on him with the pizza parlor owner, she got her daughters to accuse our friend of molesting them so she could keep custody of their younger two. I had to go stand up in court for him, I have known him since I was a teenager and he is NOT "Chester the Molester."

Now she lives in a dump in Houston somewhere with the kids--she got custody through default anyway, despite our best efforts--and the kids have been conditioned to hate their father. She has taught her ALL kids ALL the wrong things...they manipulate and take advantage of EVERYONE that doesn't have their guard up. All of us had to break contact with them long ago because of this.

I wanted you to know this story so you will do whatever you have to to protect your child and stepchildren. It's not unheard of for a father to gain custody of his stepchildren. There was a case in Florida where the woman was so awful that the father got custody of his son and step-child (can't remember if the child was a daughter or son). And this guy was born as a woman so he had that used against him in court. But he won.

Best wishes,

Charlotte

Should I prepare a petition for separation with full custody and file it in 3 weeks when I go to plan B, or file it right now, before plan B?

Makes sense. As I said, I haven't been through a real Plan B, just a week freak after D-day.

I think what some people do miss is to let everyone know they are following this program to RECOVER the marriage. Otherwise they just look petulant in Plan B. When I bounced my W out after D-day and cut off contact, I sent MB stuff to all her family so they knew where I was going with No contact.

From what I know of my WW, I don't believe that this is her objective but it is what is happening, unfortunately.

She didn't want to marry husband one, but did so because she got pregnant out of wedlock and felt that marrying the guy was the right thing to do for their daughter.

When the going got tough, she got going and found husband #2 while separated from husband #1, but officially divorced yet. He was the man of her dreams and she was crazy about him and wanted to have many kids with him. He abandoned her after two years of marriage. After 6 months of abandonment with no child support, she filed for divorce because she needed child support to take care of his kids.

She waited a year or two after the divorce was finalized before she started to date again. We met and got married and we both decided that we wanted to have kids right away. Unfortunately, I didn't turn out to be the guy she dreamed I was and lost hope in our marriage. She met OM with no intentions of getting serious (just like Sue in SAA) but fell in love with him.

She tells me that she does not want to rush into marriage again or have any more kids. In fact, she looks forward to when the kids are all in school so that she can pursue a job helping other people with their finances or something along those lines.

WW has a lot of great qualities that attracted me to her and I still like her as a person but despise what she is doing to our family right now. She has great core moral values that we both believe in, but her behavior is overpowering her beliefs--she's throwing her beliefs out the window for now it seems. She knows that what she is doing is wrong, but can't seem to make herself change, apparently.

FILE NOW, Erich. Get this all out of the way before you go into Plan B and get custody of your son.

erich...

H1 and 2 are still around for their kids, right?

I wonder what their side of the story is....

Three separate baby-daddies is a lot in your 20s, no matter what story she weaves around it now...

I'm not saying she's evil or whatever, but maybe just has a psychological need for the new relationship rush. I think some people who are not happy in general need that honeymoon every few years like a candy crush....

Erich, I don't doubt anything you say here is what you have been told, but I will tell you that my father had similar rational "reasons" for being married and divorced EIGHT TIMES. It always sounded so reasonable. He always blamed the reasons on others, because he was never able to take an honest look at himself. There is something WRONG with a woman who has been married 3 times by age 30. You have not been married that long at all, yet have been sleeping apart for most of your marriage. For all we know, she pushed her last H away in the same manner.

I am not saying this is hopeless, I am just pointing out the problem lies with HER with this many marriage failures at age 30.