Alright, here is perhaps an easier question. What is the healthy benefits of porn in your marriage?

tis is funny wflower......i would like to discuss your last 2 posts a little.........but no time just now, i will be back.

Hi WFLOWER!

Here's my take on your thread---I've never had a problem with my husband watching porn.

I come from a very open family, BUT there were certain things that were always off limits--my parents *never* spoke of pornography and both found it deplorable. When I met my husband, he introduced me to it and I thought it was great! I've always believed that what happens behind closed doors between consenting adults is no one's business but the people involved.

To be perfectly honest, I've never felt shame, guilt or jealousy when my husband has watched porn--I've always watched along with him. If he watched while I was out of the house or at work, it didn't bother me. I see porn as something removed from our relationship---(speaking in the past, because we're separated) I always believed that his love for me as a person had nothing to do with the excitement he felt after watching strange people have sex.

Although I love being a sexual person and I have absolutely no problems in that area, I can completely separate love and sex. Love makes sex wonderful, but they are two separate entities---especially for men.

It's always been my opinion that you fall in love with someone for their qualities---the sex is just a way of showing how much you love that person---how could anyone think that their H or BF would rather have the women in the magazines or porn movies? That's ridiculous.

I may not be the most beautiful woman in the world, but I'm beautiful to ME. I believe that it is my own inner beauty that my husband loved--no woman in a porn magazine or movie could change that. How could a woman who had slept with hundreds of men compare to me? If my husband had even given me one small indication that he'd ever consider a woman like that, I would have never married him. I wouldn't have respected his views and he would have been considered a "non-candidate" for marriage.....

It's plain insecurity that drives women to be so angry regarding porn. If they weren't so afraid that their husbands were thinking of someone else, this would never be a problem. I've said this many times before--it's women's insecurity that must be addressed in many cases--not the actions of the males....think of how many conflicts in marriage that could be avoided if it wasn't that the women weren't feeling so insecure about themselves....

(before i even start: i am not referring to sex addiction or hard porn w/ the statements that i am about to make)

i don't know if you're addressing me or not with your questions-

but porn "usage" isn't a destructive force in my marriage nor is it devastating to my living arrangement. in fact, porn isn't an "issue" for my H and i. he may discretely look at soft porn (playboy, etc) but this action does not hurt nor offend me. i rarely view porn, so it is not a personal issue, either.

to me: soft porn = romance novels. i don't read those types of books. but one summer, i wanted to find out what all of the hype was about. i figured it out: sexual stimulation. there may not be pics, but there definitely are arousing mental images. "his hard, throbbing member..." blah-blah-blah- WTH? same category- it just appeals to a different audience.

i don't know very many women who would throw out their harlequins 'cause H didn't like it.

i don't feel that everything should be shared in marriage. IMHO, there are some things that are private.

the benefit of him looking at porn: i don't feel responsible for having to meet all of his sexual needs.

(by the way, i have quit smoking <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

Aeri, but obviously it did not save your marriage. Insecurity has everything to do with "it" on both sides of the coin.

Tell me what benefits, other than you learned that strangers do it in front of the camera, err like you do it in the bedroom.

It just gets OLD. What went wrong in your marriage? I know it was not the porn. But was there any dishonesty in your marriage.

My feeling is that if we say ok, porn is ok for him to view, you are saying ok to more. It seems dishonest all around the whole topic.

There is no cut and dry. Not black or white, when we say, well maybe it helps a little, cause, look here we are going to make love after looking at this wild picture of sex unyielding appearing passion that has not a bit of reality just a great easy way to get sexy feeling, I don't think that honesty and openness has one thing to do with it.

You may behave and say it's ok. But I think that maybe you feel this way, but it aint making the marriage secure and feeling love together. Those ingredients are not the part of that cake. This is an issue that is so interesting. It has become a huge money maker. But does the porn get more gross each decade? Is it to out do and to get more clientele to feed off of it?

What makes you distrust an organized religion? Money making grabbing organizations do it for me. Same here. It is a great way to get money dishonestly.

When I admire art- an art form, I will spend a good deal of money to purchase it. But I will not keep buying it all up. There is a difference. We don't "use" art. Porn is "used" . It implies disgusting images, it causes one to be "discreet". It causes feelings of shame in a lot. It is usually placed behind counters, to hide it. It is not something we want our children to think that we are 'into.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ba109:
<strong>Do you really, honestly believe that 5x is going to simply stop viewing porn when you come to the realization that it is a threat to your M and family?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Are you so sure he won't?

And can we please use an "if" instead of a "when" in that sentence? As we have discussed over and over again, porn is not ALWAYS a threat to one's marriage and family. Maybe porn won't ever become a threat to Smile's marriage.

It sometimes / often is. So one should be aware of the risk. And watchful for it. But that does NOT mean it always occurs.

Marriage is risk. Life is risk. The only sure way to avoid risk is to die.

Do you ever ask 5x if he is concerned how porn might affect your future M and family and in what ways might it have an affect?

Are you assuming that 5x will refuse to address this? Or that he will promise to refrain if it bothers Smile, but then he won't follow through?

You seem to be making big assumptions about how 5x will react both now and in the future. If your crystal ball is that accurate, can you please do all of us here at MB a favor and tell us what price MicroSoft will be trading at in 30 days? Because I for one could use a sure thing to help fill up my kids' college fund.

Sorry, that was a cheap shot. I'm not saying these bad things you warn Smile about are impossible, just that they aren't as certain to occur as you make them out to be.

And I am sorry for your life experience with porn. I am sorry it has caused such pain for you and for one's you care about. I hope you and they find healing.

Do you know how to become rich? You do not spend your money on garbage. You invest it where it will multiply your original money. You have a special interest, which is lucrative and will create great dividends. It will make your assets bloom and grow. What you had originally will be increased over and over again as you observe how wonderful the results are. And it is pleasing to all concerned. There is no gimmicks nor tricks, no abomination in this kind of richness. And no need to feel discretion advisories. Because everone is reaping the gains, openly and honestly.

Bad investments, lose. They lose money interest and are detrimental to all concerned. There is no increases in money love and is great cause for sadness, and sometimes a good deal of shame will result.

aeri......how could a woman in a picture or porn movie compare to you?

ofcourse she couldn't.....but how did YOU come to understand that?
you and your H communicated w/ eachother.

and, unfortunately, some men DO COMPARE.
and always feel deprived because thier wife does not either look like a playboy bunny or act like a porn star.......or both?
and why do you think that is?
i think it is because the truth was never communicated TO them and they have built up false expectations around women and SF.

i was afraid of being compared.
i felt compared all my life in one way or another. it was how i was raised.
and because my H and i were both raised in homes that thought of pornography as deplorable.
we never talked about it.
he never explained....or even admitted...his attraction to it......i was getting so many mixed messages.
i am afraid this happens a lot and couples never explore the depths of what truly bothers them about it.

<small>[ October 13, 2003, 09:01 AM: Message edited by: nelly ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by WFLOWER:
<strong>It just seems that it should not be so signifigant that it is discreet, or hidden, but more accepted or just not done at all. When we need to do things in private, it seems to strike one as being signifigantly out of place in your life? What do you say to that?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I disagree with the notion that merely because something is done discreetly, it is inherently evil.

Think of all the bodily functions that we try to do discreetly. Is there something evil about excretion, or passing gas, or vomiting when you are sick? Yet we all try to be very discrete when we perform these functions.

Heck, making love to one's spouse is generally done in private. Does that make it evil? Does that make it out of place in one's life? Or perhaps indicate that we should be doing it more openly and be more accepting of public displays of affection?

This is one of those issues where we must agree to disagree. Some view porn as always inherently evil and wrong. Some view it as having a place in their life, or the life of their lover. Neither side is going to convince the other to "see the light".

However, both sides agree that there are some situations where porn use is very harnful to the viewer and their loved ones. We would accomplish more by focusing on how to detect those situations early. And what to do about them. Rather than arguing over the existential question whether non-hurtful situations even exist.

Oh, Aeri, that is truly wonderful, that you quit the habit of smoking. Life is truly precious. And I believe in giving it all that is good that you can.

Why do we become magnetized toward these vices anyway? I think that we do a lot not because it is good for us, but it is sensationalism. There is a fraudulent undermining in our rationals to support this topic and it seems that we want to believe it is ok. I want to believe that it is not harmful to "use" porn. I want to believe, or UNDERSTAND that porn is actually good for a marriage. Help with some anecdotal advice here.

Hold, I respect your response. But it is so interesting that you compare pornography use, to the bodily functions of human waste umm disposal! Get my drift!

Nelly, what was it that you were going to add to those two posts before you had to leave on the other page here?

Hi Again WFlower:

I suspected that you'd respond the way that you did and I anticipated some questions. Luckily, I'm prepared...hehe

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Aeri, but obviously it did not save your marriage. Insecurity has everything to do with "it" on both sides of the coin. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I disagree with this statement.

I gave you a pinhole view of my marriage and you decided to make my husband's interest in porn the central part.

Of COURSE pornography didn't save my marriage! How could it? Our problems weren't entirely sexual and furthermore, the sexual issues that we encountered and couldn't rectify were due to my H's childhood sexual abuse.

I always felt that my husband watching porn was a good experience--it demonstrated that people *do* enjoy sex simply for the pleausure of it. This concept was foreign to him---feeling shameful after having sex was a problem for him.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My feeling is that if we say ok, porn is ok for him to view, you are saying ok to more. It seems dishonest all around the whole topic. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again, I disagree. Most people understand that there is a huge difference between viewing porn and having an affair. (I'm assuming that's what you mean by "more").

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> . But I think that maybe you feel this way, but it aint making the marriage secure and feeling love together. Those ingredients are not the part of that cake. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My husband and I were totally secure together. There were absolutely no issues when it came to security or honesty. We had a lot of love for each other---I think it shows that we had a strong bond since we continue to talk daily, even though we're separated. We discuss his treatment program and work on ways to make him feel better about the abuse that he suffered as a child.

I think you're misinterpreting 'separation'. Our intention was to solve our marriage problems through separation--since my husband was suffering mentally, we felt that the best way to solve his problem, was to remove me as the 'enabler'. It was too easy for him to not seek treatment, as long as we were living together.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What makes you distrust an organized religion? Money making grabbing organizations do it for me. Same here. It is a great way to get money dishonestly. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't exactly "distrust" organized religion. I just find it outdated. All religions were built to control masses of people....I don't think that's necessary anymore.

Are you suggesting that you don't like porn because the makers of the movies/magazines are making money in a 'distrustful' manner? I'm not only a Libertarian, but a Capitalist. I believe that the women who make porn movies are being paid, so therefore there is no victimization of them (they chose that 'career' of their own free will). The people who buy them, do so of their own free will and the people who sell the movies aren't misrepresenting them as anything more or less than what they actually are--so what is the problem? Simple economics tells you that if people weren't willing to buy pornography, it wouldn't exist. I don't see what dishonesty there is here.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It implies disgusting images, it causes one to be "discreet". It causes feelings of shame in a lot. It is usually placed behind counters, to hide it. It is not something we want our children to think that we are 'into. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't find porno to be 'disgusting images'. It's sex--we all do it.

I'm not sure why you're commenting on keeping it behind counters and being discreet. There are plenty of things I wouldn't want my children, relatives or neighbours knowing about me. This is why we don't allow people to watch us make love--it's a private activity.

Your question regarding the merits of porn in the relationship is a good one, but I can't say that it's relevant. You could ask what the merits of a vibrator are...or warming oils or edible underwear too---the answer is---they're all FUN.
You can't project your moral values on others---if I find sex toys, lingerie and porn to be fun and exciting when I'm with my husband, why even bother to try and argue that point? This isn't a moral issue....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Oh, Aeri, that is truly wonderful, that you quit the habit of smoking. Life is truly precious. And I believe in giving it all that is good that you can. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks so much for your support---there's only one problem--- I've never smoked in my life!

Wflower asked......what are the benifits of porn to a marriage?

this is what i was going to address when i had to run.

it seems we all could benefit from better understanding the male and female body and how it responds sexually.
what part the brain and past experience plays in that response..or lack of.

i think most men learn about a womans body thru porn, (usually the wrong kind...and it's hidden and secret and they never get thier real questions answered)
and i think most women learn about a man's body thru experience...and a few things they may have read.....often the mans expectations and a womans don't mesh right away.
but, what about educational porn?
or a responsible attitude toward porn in general? (by that, i mean understanding what the attraction is and understanding ones own insecurities or shame etc.)
do you believe there is such a thing?

<small>[ October 13, 2003, 10:33 AM: Message edited by: nelly ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> but, what about educational porn? or a responsible attitude toward it? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why does porn have to be labelled 'educational'? Can't you just enjoy it for what it is and extract whatever positive things you can from it? Why is it important for you to give it a more acceptable title, instead of just enjoying it because you LIKE it? Seems to me that you need to legitimize it so that you can watch it without shame.

As far as a responsible attitude---does this mean, in terms of watching it? Are you suggesting that people (men) should be mindful of how much porn their watching? If this is the case, then I have a comment....

Have any of you who worry about your husband's porn use ever considered that your husband may be watching porn and making it a big deal simply because it's taboo?

In my home, we had 2 satellite dishes with about 20 hardcore porn movie channels combined. We didn't have children, so we had no need to lock out the channels. Those movies were available at the click of a button, anytime night or day. As a result of the movies being so available, my husband only watched them about twice a month, usually with me. If he watched at any other time, he'd mention it to be (probably because he felt secure in that--I *never* reacted negatively--if anything, I was thrilled...hehe)

There's something to be said here for the taboo factor---if you keep your husbands away from it or complain too much--they will do it behind your back--not because the porn girls are so hot---because it's something you fight so hard for them NOT to see.

Aeri, I am not going to assume one thing now. But what I deem important to my marriage, and what you deem important in your marriage is going to be specific to the individuality in them. And the inherent problems that are unique to them.

So, not to be labelling, but to say that you are more free about looking at the porn and if you enjoy it as much as he does. In fact if it is fun for you. Well, then it is perhaps a recreational need. Which in that case, you do not deem it to be a secret activity. As you love to see it all too.

But, it is not something that everyone finds fun. We all have judgements upon different issues. And what one finds ok to have in a relationship is not necessarily what another will find acceptable.

I dont think that being a stripper or a model for porn is a classy thing for a woman to do. I find it immoral and debasing. It looks and appears to me to be a manifestation of some women simply do not have any limitations as to what they will do for the money.

And yes, some have been coaxed into it illegally, underage, with drugs and with the promises of some glamorous fame. These stories are not visible to everyone. If you pay
attention to these stories that you occasionally hear, I wonder what you can feel about this? That it is okay, cause they got paid and at least it is a career.

Well it is not ok. Luring folks is what it is all about and the almighty buck. It is just cheap. And the stories and the imagery is cheap. And that is not going to give me much solace or feeling of enjoyment when I see this stuff. To be able to detach and enjoy sex without love has got to be some kind of talent And a talent I never will gather the desire to create in me.

And I do believe in quitting habits that are deletarious and extraneous to the keeping of a loving marriage. I believe in the walls windows and boundaries to keep the security secure.

To call me insecure would be a good poke. But I am not an insecure person. I would call myself reasonable and rationale. I think it is a discretionary person who will weigh this material out and realize what it all actually is about. And I do not come up with the summation of fun. I wish I could forget the understandings and the stories of young people who were sucked into it as work. I wish I never heard some comments of womens bodies as if they were machines that had a single degrading purpose. I wish that we could see a thing for what it is, not as an imagery of some fake entertainment with the sole purpose to get ones rocks off. Lovely sentiment. And if you want that you can have it. That is the beauty of freedom.

It seems that freedom has a down side. And that is that we can jump right into it even if it kills you!

Aeri..i didn't finish your whole post i am just responding to the first question.

why does it have to be educational porn?
i didn't say it did, i also mentioned a responsible/honest attitude toward porn...that was the point i was trying to make.
i am question the reason so many of US have these feelings of shame and isecurity around pornography.

i'll go back and read your post now, maybe you addressed that point and i was just to impatient to read on.

<small>[ October 13, 2003, 09:58 AM: Message edited by: nelly ]</small>

Nelly, don't you think that there is a huge difference between porn and educational material. God, reminds me of the Monty Python flick where the teacher invites the wife in to the classroom and to illustrate sex they do it on the bed in the classroom!!

But, the idea is that porn is done with tasteless open sex schemes and scandals. Educational material, is respectful of the naked eroticism. You can observe and read and not find offensive comments and hurtful improprieties, but actually see a cool new technique or understand why this feels better, and many things that you may think you already knew it all, and you really dont.

What you can enjoy together is a far cry from the sultry sex sluts on the porn point of view.

There are massage images and mood settings that are done with taste and without a sense of disgrace.

The types of images are completely done with a major differentiation in the clientele attracted to these literary peices. One set of clientele has it piped in via the sex channels, and the other set of clientele is seeking information via the bookstore to spice up the marriage in a healthier manner. Yes, sorry that my opinion is judgemental. As is everyones who holds a judgement upon anything you do in life.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I wish I could forget the understandings and the stories of young people who were sucked into it as work. I wish I never heard some comments of womens bodies as if they were machines that had a single degrading purpose. I wish that we could see a thing for what it is, not as an imagery of some fake entertainment with the sole purpose to get ones rocks off. Lovely sentiment. And if you want that you can have it. That is the beauty of freedom. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think that the notion that women get 'sucked' into the porn industry is largely propaganda. I read several articles in respectable magazines about the number of women who apply for jobs in the sex industry. Many of them are interested in being 'actresses'. Many are lured by the money---my question is---WHY is this MY problem?

I don't go crying the blues to anyone when my job becomes stressful. I don't say "why did my guidance counselor ever "LURE" me into this Accounting position"...that just doesn't happen because I'm not viewed as a "victim". Unfortunately, the left wing zealots have turned porn stars into their latest cause. I don't buy it one bit. The average woman is AWARE that the sex trade is full of drugs and shady characters--so why do the girls get involved? I don't understand why you'd be so quick to jump on the pornography industry for paying women to have sex--those of us who are not willing to do it, DON'T. For those women who ARE willing--the offer to be paid to have sex is there. Why do you feel that this would be such a difficult choice to make for some women? It's a pretty easy choice for me.

I watched a show on strippers recently. There was a woman with a Master's degree working as a stripper by night and a prostitute by day in Amsterdam's red light district. Although she could have an excellent career, she CHOSE the sex trade simply for the money. She was exercising her right to sell her body. That is her right---we are all free to do as we please with our bodies. I sure wouldn't want to be denied this basic right for the sake of those women who make poor choices in their lives...besides, am I my brother's keeper? I think not. We were born of free will---so, allow us each to make the decisions we feel comfortable with.

The title of your post was "Why do you feel uncomfortable about your husband looking at porn"...I answered it--I don't feel uncomfortable. I enjoy porn myself. I don't think that makes me less of a person nor do I feel that it makes me immoral. I'm simply engaging in something I enjoy. I wouldn't come into your bedroom and ask you to discontinue a sexual practice that you enjoy, so why would you want to try and tell me to stop doing something that I enjoy?

Edited to say:

Wflower:

You feel that porn is 'disgraceful', but that is the label you've chosen to give to pornography. If you watch an erotic videotape that shows different sexual positions and techniques, it's the same SEX, only displayed differently...it's the same point I made to Nelly---you're only choosing to view it as "less disgraceful" by labelling it "educational".

<small>[ October 13, 2003, 10:13 AM: Message edited by: *^aeri^* ]</small>