What has been Dr. Harley's opinion of marriages that are the result of affairs? Do these new marriages merit the same effort to be saved as the first marriage that was broken apart by infidelity? Are they doomed? Has anyone had their ex-spouse marry the affair partner? If so, how long did it last, and did anyone have their ex'es try to return to them, or admit that they made a mistake? I have read Dr. Frank Pittman's book "Private Lies" which states that these marriages more often than not break up. I was wondering if anyone here has any experience with this. Are there some betrayers that do "wake up" or do most of them continue to convince themselves that they did the right thing in marrying their affair partner?<BR>

My h woke up before we divorced, but he did live with the ow for 2 months.. He has been home now for 8 months. We had some ups and downs at first, but we are finally getting through this.. I dont think my h would have ever married the ow.. I think it would have ended before they ever got to that point. I have a freind that divorced his wife, got engaged to ow,, it never worked out, and now he remarried his X wife and has been married to her for 8 years.<P>It is rare that the betrayer marries op.. (10%), and of those about 75% fail very quickly.. For all those reasons Pittman stated in his book. I agree.. I know the stats can be off a little, but I know of a lot of affairs, and none of them ever amounted to anything.<P>Of course there are always exceptions, but I do believe its rare..

I asked my therapist the same question. She says that sometimes they will try harder to save that marriage than the first one because they gave up so much (thier first marriages) to be together.<BR>My H is now realizing that there are too many obsticles to get married to OW. Though he did tell me 4 months ago they had talked about it.<P>I have talked to like 5 divorced female friends and all of them told me after the divorce all of their ex H wanted them back, but they had moved on in their life and thought that they deserved better than left over goods from the OW.<P>Believe it or not My H is home now. I hope for the long haul. He is still in la la land a little. And still in the ME stage....like being real selfish and wanting to do what he wants to do. I just hope that I have the strenth and indurance to keep up plan A until the new and improved H comes around or the OW drops dead. LOL Either way I am much stronger and will survive this whole mess.<P>Sometimes I think we all have to remember. That we are GOOD, we are Faithful, we are HONEST and that we DESERVE better. If that is with our S or a new S down the road. That does not mean I am not trying like He!! to save this 19 year marriage, but what I am trying to save is that we deserve happiness too.<P>Sorry I got off the ? a little.<P>Hope that helps!

I've read "Private Lies" too. My take on the high failure rate of marriages of affair partners is this.<P>Much of the appeal of affair lies in the excitement created by all the secrecy and sneaking around. The idea is that this kind of sex is forbidden fruit and so it that much more delicious. (This is a simple, well-known principle.) <P>There's also the fact that affair partners only see each other at their best. They're not trapped in a daily routine of domestic chores, bill-paying, taking care of kids together, etc.<P>When they get married, all of these "benefits" go away. But they don't see this coming until too late. Those of you in marriages with a cheating spouse might consider pointing these facts out to your spouse, if you want to keep him or her. (I've decided that I don't much in more. The hurt's been too great.)<P>Regards and blessings,<P>--Wex

<BR>One of my sisters was an OW. Her MM divorced his wife, left his two young children, and remarried - to my sister. They have now been married almost 17 1/2 years and have 3 children together. Such outcomes are quite unusual, I'm sure of it. But I know for a fact that they do happen.<P>Wex: Nice to see you again. Did you ever get the GPS thing going?<P>Bystander

While I agree with what others have said so far I just thought I'd throw in my thoughts that were spured by Wexwill's comments. <P>Yesterday when my H was here to visit he was telling me how he and OW were not getting along at all. She was giving him a hard time about spending more than his, allowed by her, 6 hours with his kids on Sundays. She threw a fit a few weeks ago when he had to work at D's school all day Sunday, as she had felt since he had to leave her at 6am he should have been back to her house by noon and when he didn't call her or return her calls to his cellphone she was pretty pi**ed. He no longer has any desire to sleep with her, and doesn't(Perhaps since the forbidden fruit isn't forbidden any longer it has lost its thrill?). He said he used to talk with her a lot everyday on his cell phone (no surprise to me there, as I now see his cell phone bill every month and am REALLY interested now to the one coming out later this month to see if this is the truth)but now can only handle a few minutes with her on the phone. Apparently her son has now moved in with them and at 25 he's depressed, has a child support warrent out for his arrest, and is not employeed because he refuses to take a job paying less than he was making previously. He also said she isn't doing well finacially and is now on meds for depression. <P>He also told me how *GREAT* I have been. Loving, understanding, and patient. It's like the OW and I have changed roles for now. I bet she was his shoulder to cry on in the past, just like I am now. The BIG differance is that my H an I have a history built on love and commitment not fantasy and lies. I know I will triumph in the end.<P>While I'm sure some affairs end up as marriages the majority don't and the ones that do usually don't stand the test of time. One of the biggest reasons they can't make it off the ground is..... When a person is still in a marraige, be it legally or emotionally they are not bringing 100% of themselves into the new relationship. So here you have half a man or woman trying to be a full partner in a marriage. It usually isn't possible. The smartest thing the OP can do is seperate from their MM/W untill they are whole again. Of course this isn't what usualy happens as they are pretty insecure people to begin with and would be too scared of loosing them if the gave them any space to realize all they had together was a fantasy.<P>The reason for me sharing this info is because Wexwill really hit the nail on the head when he spoke of the lure being a fantasy life. But once the realities of daily life sink in the betrayer comes to see that the grass that seemed so greener on the other side of the fence still needs mowing, and the lawn they are more familiar with may just be their lawn of choice. <P>I've always looked at many affair as a house of cards, built on lies and deception. The OP sets up this little fantasy world and lures the betrayer in. But the house of cards isn't built on a substancial foundation and eventually they realize that they can't run from reality forever, and the house of cards falls. <P>The old saying is. *Where ever you go there you are*. When the betrayer wakes up and sees where they are and the reality of what they have done and the fact that life still consists of the daily drudgeries they thought they were leaving behind they usually wake up. Hopefully before it is too late to repair the marriage.<P>Fingers Crossed

My neighbor has been married 30 years now to her second husband. Both left original spouses to be together (she had kids he did not). My husband and I both left our first spouses to be together 5 years ago. Been married/living together for 3 years now. It is tough because you go through the initial divorce and then you have the same problems that a lot of second marriages have in regards to ex's, possible step kids etc...I do believe the statistics that second marriages are harder. I also agree with one of the posts where they think that they may even try harder at their second marriage then they did there first. Part of that is because divorce is so, so awful that you don't want to put yourself or your loved ones through it again and also I think I've learned a lot. I realize the mistakes that I made in my first marriage and I am bound and determined to not make them again. My husband and I did not have any surprises once we were married. He was the same man he was before. So far, I see our marriage becoming stronger as time goes by.

Fingers Crossed <BR>Glad to hear of your recent developments! THat is good news I think!<P>Lady M<P>I read that book too. It is GREAT> I gave it to my H also. He is living with OW. Talking of marrying her. EEKS> See my post today and you can see my situation. I agree with all those above me. <P>I asked ALL the same questions you did, and I was glad to hear it. I guess deep down you don't want to see your H and the OW go on and live a happy life. Right> I know I don't.I can admit to that.<P>My H left me for a woman he knew 5 days. Within a week, he lived with her. Within 2 weeks he wanted to come home. Next week, he wanted her. Now this week, he is divorcing me. After 10 years and all the faithful things I endured compared to his addictions. I feel slighted, cheated and betrayed beyond repair. THe comments above bring me peace. I hope it ends before then. Please God I do.<P>To dispair, my H's dad married his OW and they are still together 17 years. I saw first hand how H's dad DID in fact put way more effort into the second marriage. I find this a disgrace. But deep down, I see thier problems that arrise, and I am sure it is still a hard thing. <P>Private Lies is a good book. I liked it a lot. What do you think about the fact that my H agreed to read it. I can't believe it. I just wish he would give it back so I can read it again. No such luck. Also OW is furious he is reading it, and my name is in the cover. Oh well.<P>In my own heart, I believe too that those marriages resulting of affair, will be their own death in the making. Think about it. The best part of the affair, no committment, no everyday routine, no expectations. You know the OW is pressuring the H to get the marriage to have the upper hand on the betrayed spouse, well I feel it in my case. <P>Plus, I hate to say this, but...WHAT COMES AROUND GOES AROUND...DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU... ANYTHING YOU DO COMES BACK TO YOU TENFOLD...THE GRASS IS NEVER GREENER ON THE OTHER SIDE....<P>You get my point!!! THey are doomed, even in those 10% marriages that last, its foundation was built on lies, deceit, and betrayal and you can't tell me the OW doesn't live doubts her whole life, and isn't afraid to "rock the boat" or is her true self in the beginning. IN a case where you left a severly abusive situation, maybe, all other cases. I highly doubt it. LEt me know of your other stats as you get them. I am with you on it!!<P>Good luck.!

And even in those cases where they have been together 15-20 years, they still can't relax - after all, how many of us here have been married that long. The each know they are married to a liar and a cheat. And if they can actually live 15-20 years without being overcome with remorse, that certainly says a lot about their character, or lack thereof. <P>I suspect that in many of the cases where the marriages to the OP do last, the first marriage partner was either an alcoholic, an abuser, or a betrayer as well - which would presumably cause the betrayer to feel less guilt than if they had left a person who was basically a decent human being.<P>I doubt very much that most people learn anything from divorce, other than the fact that you can't trust anyone. My H was deserted by his first wife after only two months - and, yes, I guess he did learn something - he told me long ago how grateful he was that I wasn't the type to just run as soon as we had an argument, but stayed to work it out (unlike his first wife). But, guess what - he apparently perceived a problem, but not only didn't try to work it out, but didn't even let on that it existed - and he turned and ran just like his first wife did.<BR>

Thanks, everyone, for your input. I agree with what everyone has said. <P>Wex - I know how you feel - I, too, had my H have an affair, walk out of our marriage after 17 years, and marry the OW about six months ago. But I have decided that he is no longer the kind of person I could ever share my life with. He has lied, cheated, and used other people to get what he wants. The OW has been married twice before. I believe that the odds are against them, but that he will not divorce her because he will not want to go throught it again. However, she has done it twice, and might not hesitate to do it again if things don't go that way she wants, especially if she can get any financial benefit from it. (I have been calling her my ex-H's next ex-wife!!!!) But there is still a part of me that would like to see their marriage fail. Not that I would want him back, and I don't wish any physical harm to either one of them. I just would like to see some vindication!! I think most of us in this situation feel the same way. I would just like to know that he feels some remorse for what he did, and that his conscience bothers him. It's really hard to realize that the person you loved and spent half your life with has no conscience and is capable of such cruelty and disregard for the person that they vowed to be faithful to and to love always. If they can't make the first marriage work, how can they truly have a decent second marriage when it is based on lies and cheating? To see otherwise makes me lose belief that in being decent you can expect to be treated decently in return, and to think that liars and cheaters get away with things that aren't right. I truly hope that "what goes around comes around." But I'm not holding my breath!!!<P>

Lady M,<P>Your honesty is the same feeling I have when it comes to a remarriage out of an affair. I hate that some people would stay married because their last divorce was so awful. Some people have no morals and they have no right to be married again after they walked out of the first one. Good luck, and I hope you get your wish!!! Dana