After all the months of my ex being so angry and bitter toward me, all that has turned around. I have talked to him about three times and he is so nice to me it scares me. We don't talk about anything personal, but he is much more friendly than he has been. I had to call him today with a question about taxes, and he was extremely nice, even changing the subject and talking a little about our sons. I ended the conversation. Then out of the blue he called me back this afternoon, more business but it was something that was totally unnecessary. I was very friendly, but again I was the one that ended the conversation. When we hung up, he said "see you later", like nothing bad had ever happened between us. The funny thing is, this depressed me more than ever, because I feel now that when he isn't angry, it means he has no guilt over the whole thing. He almost seemed happy to hear from me. Does anyone have any thoughts? I'm not saying he wants to come back, he is still very involved with OW, but his attitude toward me has totally changed. He acted like he hated me for so long that I don't know what to think about this. I feel he is up to something!<P>AD

I don't know what to say, but it's a step in the right direction for whatever the reason. I think you are right not to read too much into the 'change of heart.' <P>For myself, I would like to think that someday my stbx will not hate me as much as he seems to now.<P>Keep up the being your nice self and maybe the 'answer' will show it's face.

AD,<P>I wonder if he has felt before that he had to be mean to yu to end the relationship so quickly...kinda a sick way of thinking he was "helping" you??????<P>No that things are over via the divorce....maybe he no longer feels he needs to be mean as he just assumes that things will automatically get better for you.<P>Just a thought.....<P>Roll Me Away<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Studentwife,<P>Thanks for the reply. I don't know what brought about this change of heart, I hope it lasts.<P>Roll Me Away,<P>The divorce has been final for 5 months, and up until last week he was still angry, cold, and distant. I don't think he was concerned about helping me, he really did seem to have some very bad feelings toward me. According to him, (before the divorce was final), all this was my fault and he really seemed to hate me. When I talked to him today, it wasn't like you would talk to a casual friend, he was almost chattering, like he was nervous. As I said, when he called me this afternoon, it was to give me some numbers that we had already agreed he would send in with the children when he picks them up tomorrow night. The whole thing was odd.<P>Thanks for replying. Hope your still hanging in there in your situation. Has the bimbo moved to town yet?<P>AD

AD,<P>No, not yet that I am aware of, at least. Neither has my H moved his stuff out like he said he would. He also violated our PlanB no contact agreement and came over when I was still home last week. He has already reneged on his agreement to pay half the utility bills - that lasted for 2 months. He asked me for a check when I saw him for my part of the bills. I gave it to him and hurried out of the house. When I got home later that day, he had left me an "invoice" for $40. Guess he had missed something when he was calculating how much I had to pay. Seems kinda insulting to me to leave me this. Amount owed was xxx amt., amt. paid was xxx amt. by check., amt. owed is $40. Geez....I might skip town and cheat him out of $40 damn dollars! <P>I am doing super good in PlanB. I should have done this earlier. I had so much fear about doing it and it is much, much easier than having to see him all the time and getting sucked back into the hopelessness of it all. I am starting to majorly detach from him. I think a large part of it is the fact that this is almost exactly one year old and he has NEVER DONE ONE THING towards helping our marriage. I don't feel resentment as much as resignation. Somethings are not gonna happen, no matter how hard I try. My acceptance levels have risen alot and so has my self-esteem. I am still PlanB'ing, but my H may just end up losing the best woman he could ever have!<P>That's how I am doing...<P>Roll Me Away<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Roll Me Away<P>My ex never cared about money until this divorce. Then he acted like I was always trying to cheat him. Here we are with our hearts breaking, I couldn't have cared less about bills and things like that, but he was so focused on the financial side of things. Before, he never even cared how much money we had. I will never understand them.<P>I guess I am in Plan B through default, since ex made it clear he was doing his best to avoid me. I'll admit it helps, even when there were times I though he would have contacted me about the kids, he didn't. That's why his attitude for the last couple of weeks has surprised me so, he had been giving me the impression that he wanted absolutely nothing to do with me.<P>AD

AD,<P>For the sake of your kids, I am glad that he is being nicer...for whatever motives unless they are sneaky and underhanded. Time will tell if he is just beginning to realize it isn't all your fault or if he has some nasty game he is playing. Sigh...this is so tiring!<P>About the money...I guess now that we have separate checking accounts, it is really ranking my H that I make more money than him. He has mentioned it several times. Also, I got a promotion at firstof the year and when we had the last date he asked all about it - how much money did I get, etc. The OW is a school teacher and her pay is pretty low. ai guess he is starting to realize that without my income his life is gonna change drastically. Well...too bad! That is a consequence of his actions, not mine. Yes, my H seems particularly focused on the money right now. <P>I have wondered if he is just using that as a way to try to re-engage me - to needle me about money matters to try to "keep me in the game"? Even anger keeps a couple connected.<P>All I can say is this: PlanB is WONDERFUL!!!! It is like picking up your toys and saying I don't want to play with you anymore!!!! The pressure is off me big-time! <P>Hey, I'm with you...I will never understand why and how much my H has changed.....<P>Roll Me Away<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

I've been through this. I saw incredible meanness the last two months we were together and the first two that we were separated. Then it stopped and has gotten progressively better, aside from the five months of Plan B when there was nothing at all.<P>My simple analysis is that initially they project their guilt back at us as anger. They really want to blame the affair and their actions on us, as they can't accept that they, as good and moral people, could be responsible for this. The longer the marriage has been, especially if they've been responsible, good parents and affair-less before, the stronger the need is to put the blame elsewhere. The behavior doesn't fit with their self image.<P>I think Plan A flies in the face of this and eventually, so long as they're not seriously emotionally undeveloped (like Nellie's husband), they start to realize that we are not solely to blame for their behavior. Then, the constant blaming and meanness stops.<P>Unfortunately, it doesn't mean anything as far as I'm concerned about them changing their minds. My husband has been reasonably nice to me for a year now. He's still not here.<P>I do have an update. A little more than a month ago I sent an emotional letter to my husband. I didn't lovebust, but for the first time, I honestly said how I felt about his abandoning our baby and his disrespectful treatment of me. I asked him to give his time and heart to our daughter. I said the affair was the least of it. What was much worse was the lying, evasiveness, inability to talk to me as an affected human being, and the failure to invest effort to act and decide. I then said "apparently, you don't even care enough to divorce me.".<P>This letter hit home and the difference in him is nothing short of dramatic. He volunteered to watch the kids (including the toddler) in my house for a week while I was travelling (I'm now home with pneumonia by the way, but that's a different story). When I got back on Friday night, the house was immaculate. Laundry had been done through Thursday, the mail was sorted, he had detailed notes on things that happened at the school, and shared all sorts of stories about the kids.<P>I won't list them all, but he's been very nice and considerate in many ways since the letter. He has shown active interest in our daughter. He did acknowledge receiving the letter and said he's working on a response. We'll see about that part - he's still not talking openly though.<P>I think betrayers go through their own evolution along a fairly standard pattern - just as we do. The big difference is the nature and intensity of the affair, which can really elongate the stages. I don't think divorce really changes the stages since that's a legal action, not an emotional one. But very few of them will continue to be mean and exclusively blame the spouse after a while, especially if the spouse is nice to them. The only exceptions I can think of on this board are Nellie's husband and Chris's wife. My opinion is that what they both did is so incredibly bad that they almost have to blame their spouse, for their own sake. To face it directly would be devastating and possibly provoke suicide.<P>I'm glad this stage is over and you don't have to deal with this. I remember how hard it was for me.

AD,<BR>I am glad to hear that your H is being nice to you now. Even if it doesn't lead to anything further, it certainly makes life a bit less stressful not having to deal with the inexplicable anger.<P>I think Distressed makes a lot of good points. I do sometimes worry about what would happen if my H were ever to stop blaming others and start blaming himself. Unfortunately, now he seems to be angry at the children as well, when they aren't cooperative and cheerful.<P>

Distressed,<P><BR>Thanks for sharing your point of view. You always make sense to me, and I appreciate being able to learn something from your own perspectives and unfortunatley painful experiences.<P>I am sorry that you have pneumonia. I am hoping that you will feel much better soon!<P>Please give us an update when your H responds to your letter. It will be interesting to see if he responds only formt he perspective of becoming more involved with is childrn and shouldering some responsibilities here, or if this has a deeper effect and will initiate some significant relationship changes between the two of you.<P>Thinking of you today....<P>Roll Me Away <P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Nellie,<BR>Thanks for your post. The change of attitude did make me feel a bit better, but I'm hoping it doesn't mean he's moved past everything and has no guilt left. I don't see how your H can keep from exploding with all the guilt he must have to deal with. Anyone should be able to see what they are doing to their kids.<P>Distressed,<P>I'm very glad to hear from you and hate that your unwell. I'm glad your H is taking more of an interest in your daughter. The condition he had your house in is a good sign to me, it finally shows some responsibility. You have really thought all this through and you spoke of their evolution. What do you think their next stage will be and do you still think there is hope of remorse on down the line? I really hope you feel better soon.<P>Thanks <P>Ad

AD:<P>Regarding your questions, I think the odds for remorse down the line are extremely high, probably 95%. It may not be presented to you, though. It might just be carried as guilt and worked out for the benefit of someone else. Even my inlaws made a comment like this to me - "when they try to make it up, sometimes the next family is the recipient of the changes". I SURE HOPE NOT!<P>I think the stages are relatively rigid, but the circumstances are not. So obviously, if a divorce and remarriage has occurred by the time remorse hits, it's unlikely that the betrayer will share much.<P>I know what I've seen in my own husband and I think it's typical, but unfortunately elongated by a combination of his conflict avoidance and an intense affair with a coworker. After the anger phase, he went into a hopeless/drifting phase, where time had no meaning, no decisions were made, and life just coasted along. Everything got some variation of a "what's the use" response, so he invested no effort in any direction. In the process, he dropped the kids, mutual friends, family, and many other things he enjoyed and gained a huge amount of weight. I don't think he intended this to be forever, but he just couldn't get around to anything or take control of his life. My opinion is he spent an entire year in this phase, and only in the last month is he realizing what has happened and that he's the one that's done it.<P>After realization, I think there's acceptance, when the impact of the behavior and the pain caused is fully understood, and lastly, an attempt to make amends. I don't think there are discrete starting and ending points to these stages - they overlap. I also think that the evolution of the affair drives most of their progression in behavior towards us. When they're lost in the romantic obsession, they are not looking at themselves, so they don't get to realization. It's almost like their brain has only a certain amount of space and enough isn't freed up to see what they've done until the obsession takes up less room.<P>Does this make sense? I'm sure plenty of the long-timers can improve this. I've read alot of books on the stages, but this is my own version from experience. Hope this helps.<p>[This message has been edited by Distressed (edited February 02, 2000).]