Hi all,<P>I've been mostly a "lurker" and feel badly that I can't seem to offer any good advise to anyone. It's sad to see all the new names. I often wonder what happened to all those folks that helped hold me and my sanity together during my discovery of H's affair with Mia, then our eventual separation. The divorce is in full swing, watching our 17 year history memorialized on those divorce and settlement documents. Odd feeling that your life and all it's emotional stuff is neatly typed onto paper then split up into two neat compartments....SIGH...<P>Here's my question for all of you to ponder...besides the obvious legal implications, just what does that marriage certificate mean to people? Is it possible that two people can be deeply in love, make a lifetime commitment to each other, without the marriage certificate? Or does being married with papers only serve to make things more difficult to terminate when things go wrong...???? I'm so very confused as to why we go through the ceremony and sign this document when right now, it seems so senseless.<P>As always, your valuable insights and opinions are appreciated.<P>the ol' Tired Lady....

I think it means different things to different people. I know to me it means forever. That is what it meant when I got married and signed the paper. And yes it is frustrating when others don't take it as serious.<P>I want you to know that you will be in my prayers. Miracles can happen <P>------------------<BR>Stac<BR>AKA/Jaded Heart<BR>~~~~~~~~~~~<BR> <A HREF="http://reflect.to/journeys" TARGET=_blank>http://reflect.to/journeys</A> <p>[This message has been edited by confusedone (edited February 02, 2000).]

I think most people go into marriage with good intentions, specifically to have it last forever. Problem is, we see marriage as "romantic" rather than work, and work it is. It can be a fun job, but it doesn't "just happen."

So, does anyone else have insightful opinions on this question?

TiredLady,<P>To me, the marriage ceremony symbolizes the commitment in front of family and friends to each other. It also legally ties two people together, thus making it "harder" to separate. If we didn't think we would be together till death, people would probably not bother to marry at all. However, we want to affirm our belief that this will be a lasting relationhship, so we choose to legitimize this through a legal marriage. <P>Some people chose never to marry, and they feel their commitment to each is as strong and valid as married folks. Emotionally, that may well be true. However, for those commitments where marriage has not taken place and then later there is a breakup, I am sure that the emotional strain is every bit as hard as what we have experienced. <P>The differnce is that they then don't have the legal entanglement of the "divorce" itself; however, in today's clime, I am sure that they still have the legal entanglement of joint property separation.<P>For me, I am sure that if I end up divorced, I will definitely want to be married again. I do not think that I would want to live with anyone unless I felt 100% commited to that person. If I feel 100% commited to a person, I want that affirmed to my family and friends via a marriage ceremony.<P>Roll Me Away<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

I've been married 17 years also and even though an affair has devistated me (it was just confirmed), I'm not ready to throw in the towel. When I said "I do" I also meant through good times and bad. I just wasn't expecting things to get as bad as they have. But, I meant what I said and with the help of this website and the wonderful literature there is available I truly believe things can work out.<P>May God bless you as you go through this time in your life.

Hi TL,<P>Haven't seen you for awhile. Glad to see that you are still checking in on MB.<P>For me, the Marriage Certificate meant committment & vows. Although I had a tiny wedding ceremony, the people who were there, were witnesses to those vows. Unfortunately, it appears that my H didn't remember our vows when he strayed.<P>My H & I want to renew our vows this year. Hopefully, this time, our vows will be taken more seriously.<P>p.s. Yes, I think that 2 people can make a life-time committment with each other, without the marriage certificate.

Tired Lady,<BR> It seems like in my state(community property state)a marriage license is just a legal binding contract that let's someone walk out the door with half of your money when they get tired of you.Maybe this should of been over on the joke thread?<BR> --Murph

To me my marriage certificate meant everything to me. I and my H were married in Gods house. We had our friends and family there to celebrate our new lives together. I took our vows very seriously. In good times and in bad....in sickness and health. I would have went to the ends of the earth for him. But I really think he knew that, and that is why he is able to still push my buttons. The 3 most happy and eventful days of my life......my marriage and the birth of our 2 daughters. I have this way of loving...that is so unconditional. I have always been able to find good in everything. But this has me stumped.......I can't find anything good in this divorce...nothing. <P>But yes, that certificate meant so much. In fact, it is gone......it seems my stbx took it. Said he was afraid that I would rip it up or burn it. To him, it seems, it was just a piece of paper that costs 100.00. To me it was a life long commitment to the man that I loved and still do.<BR>Nancy

Have to say I think the same way. It was just a peice of paper. Didn't mean much of anything, after all, paper can be destroyed. It was the vows that meant so much. They would be forever in my mind! <BR>I think, even though I kept my certificate framed and over the headboard of our bed, that it didn't mean much more than that to either of us, another picture of the puzzle of our life together. <BR>Now he looks at it and actually takes the time to touch it and dust it. It is meaningful to him. He looks at it as meaning something. Unfortunately I don't believe it means anything. I think the vows he gives me now mean more than anything else he could ever do. God Bless!<P>------------------<BR>Chick's <BR>Bren<P>You won't see things until your ready to not be blind!

TL,<BR>The paper is the leagl part that we must adhere to according to the Bible. Society has trivialized the institution just as it was trivialized in Biblical times. You know what they say about history repeating itself. Until we get it right we are doomed to reapeating over and over again.<P>For me the commitment had to be there and still is. She is saying that the only thing that will ever be between us is friendship even though we are still married. She is attributing OM abuse of her emotions to just get into her pants to me. I am the one who has been behind her through 8 affairs in 7+ years now. I still love her because she is God's gift to me even though she feel prey to Satan's lies which she gets from the ungodly people she chooses to hang around.<P>I know God has me here for a reason. He wants me to be here for her. I can do nothing less. I will leave when He directs me to leave.<P>Sorry to hear things are not going well for you.<P>MONDO HUG!!!!!!!<P>------------------<BR><B><I>God Bless,<BR>Rob</I></B><BR> regilmor@swbell.net