hi to all on the forum<P>I am in a bad spot right now and would appreciate your help. My H is taking my kids this and next weekend to his "new" apartment, actually he moved in with OW. He has been rubbing it in my face all along.<P>Well I have withheld them as long as I could (considering he left on xmas, and wanted them there the week after new years). Now I have no choice, because the courts will negatively look at me when it comes to custody of the kids.<P>OK I told him that he needs to pay me ALL back child support when he comes. Legally I know one has nothing to do with the other, BUT he seemed compliant enough on that . SInce he has four thousand dollars of income tax money that he stold by filing without me.<P>I told him I WOULD NOT pack a bag for the kids. He can supply toothbrushes, diapers for baby. I would supply a change of clothes the next day and he can have pajamas for them there. He was ok with that.<P>Heres where it gets tangled. Here is where I need help. We live in NY State by the way.<BR>OK I told him that I wanted an address and phone number where my kids will be. He said all I need is the phone number. WE argued and he said he will see me in court (again with that threat). <P>Don't I deserve to know where my kids are sleeping??PLEASE HELP ME!!

lonelymom:<P>You're putting your kids in the middle of a fight that they don't need to be in. And you're as much at fault as your husband.<P>The two of you should be using the policy of Joint Agreement to settle all these matters. Impossible??? Probably at this point, but I'll give you some pointers anyways.<P>1. You have a problem with him introducing your kids to the OW. Completely understandable, but it's not preventable by threats. Instead, state your concern over this. Ask him if he would hold off these introductions until AFTER he divorces you, so as not to confuse the children. See how he responds. If he doesn't seem at all interested in negotiating this point, then drop it, letting him know where you stand.<P>2. He needs to pay back child support LEGALLY. Why bother rubbing his face in it. Mention it, see where he stands. If it doesn't work to your satisfaction, let a lawyer do the dirty work for you.<P>3. Pack bags for the kids. Help them get comfortable with their father at his new place. To do anything less is an attempt to punish your husband through your children. Don't.<P>4. Why do you NEED an address for the kids at this point? A phone would be fine---a cell phone that he would carry would be even better. It's more important that the kids be ready to go at the appointed time, and that they be dropped off after the visit promptly as well. You're trying to corner your husband and he's fighting back defensively. Ask him why he doesn't want you to have the address now---and then accept the answer (with a "Thank You").<P>As most affairs, this one will end as well. You need to either be working on establishing new (good) marital behaviors, ala Plan A; or in a "no contact" Plan B mode. Plan C (complain & punish) will hurt your chances for marital recovery, and set a tremendously bad example for the children.<P>

I would certainly want an address...I know zilch about law, but I'd assume you are entitled to have one....I would tell him that you promise not to go by, or to use it except for an emergency, and try again (nicely). As a compromise, if he still won;t give it to you, would he leave it with a family member or friend for use in case of emergency?<BR>As a side note, in your shoes I would not refuse to pack the kids bags...while I sympathize with your feelings, this behavior only feeds an adversarial relationship. Regardless of where you and he stand, you need to work together on making sure the kid's needs are met.<BR>I know it is tough...<BR>Hugs--<BR>Kathi

PLEASE try and put your pain aside at this point in your marriage to NOT drag the kids into the middle. I went through the entire court thing, including a custody battle and believe me, if it even sounds like you are a little bitter the Judge will be all over you and it doesn't matter who cheated on who. The more that you cooperate with "him" the more he will with you. When my ex and I first seperated he used the kids in the middle so much from being vandictive and full of hate that he got tossed in jail for it. He decided that it was worth hurting his kids if he could hurt me. Don't let something like this happen to you. It really hurts the kids more then it does your ex. And, if for some reason he continues to stay with the other woman she'll have a lot of influence on your kids when they stay with him. Try and keep the ill feelings too a minimium. And....pack for the kids. That way you will know that they have everything they need and that should give you great comfort. I'm not positive on this one, but I think that once the divorce is final and your receiving child support it will be up to you to supply clothes, diapers etc...for your kids when they visit their father. Most NCP do keep some things for the kids but I don't think they are obligated too. I also know that the courts frown on interference from the CP when the kids are visiting with the NCP. It's ok to ask for a phone number but it's a different story if your calling there a lot. In ending, the more you "boss around", demand or make threats the more he'll fight back and that will only hurt your little ones in the long run. Remember, love your children more then you hate him.

I don't know about NY, but in the state I'm from both parents must provide the court with all contact information, such as addresses and phone numbers. Talk to your attorney about this. <P>Good luck.

Mom,<P>Don't punish the kids by not providing things that are necesarry for them to visit their dad. Pack toothbrushes, clothes the works. I even packed snacks because me ex-h was pretty lax about buying snacks for her. <P>I know that this is hard. Be strong. The kids need to know that you are secure when they are away from you. I think a phone number is all you need. Let you h know that you don't want him interferring if the children need to call you. They need stability and support. If you do things like you are, the judge will look at you very poorly, when and if you fight for custody. <P>As far as the OW, there is nothing you can do about your h's relationship with her. You may be dealing with her more than you want down the road, try to sound strong and civil. This will help down the road, when your H gets to see all her faults and weakness'. You need to show your h that you can survive without him and are not needy and weak. Love your children. Don't make them make a choice. They are hurt the most by the conflict. Take care <P>Gerri

Lonelymom,<BR>I can't stress enough what everyone else has said, the only ones you will be hurting are your kids. Make it as easy as possible on them during this adjustment. There are many great books available at the library on this topic, but they all stress Don't put the kids in the middle. By denying them things they are familiar with, you just make them insecure and unhappy. Send as much as you can that they need, special blankies, snuggles, pillows, toys. It is going to be hard enough being away from you without having something familiar to cling to.<BR>How old are your kids?<P>here is a great site, do a search on children and divorce it and it will pull up many articles from a child development point of view:<BR> <A HREF="http://www.nncc.org" TARGET=_blank>http://www.nncc.org</A> <P><BR>here are a few articles:<P>Coping with sereration and divorce <A HREF="http://www.nnfr.org/curriculum/topics/sep_div.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.nnfr.org/curriculum/topics/sep_div.html</A> <P>vistitation do's and don'ts:<BR> <A HREF="http://www.nncc.org/Parent/visitdo.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.nncc.org/Parent/visitdo.html</A>

Children's Rights <BR>The right to be treated as interested and affected persons,<BR>not as pawns or possessions. <P>The right to love each parent, without feeling guilt, pressure, or rejection. <P>The right to love, care, discipline, and protection from both parents. <P>The right not to be asked to choose sides or decide where they want to live. <P>The right to express their feelings about the divorce, such as anger, sadness, or fear. <P>The right to a positive and constructive on-going relationship with each parent. <P>The right to not have to make adult decisions. <P>The right to remain children, without being asked to take on parental responsibilities<BR>or to be adult companions or friends to their parents. <P>The right to the most adequate level of economic support that can be provided<BR>by the best efforts of both parents. <P>The right not to be drawn into the painful games parents play to hurt each other. <P>The right not to be put in the middle of parents' battles. <P>The right to learn appropriate behavior from their parents' examples. <P>The right to make friends and participate in school and community activities. <P>The right to succeed in school and prepare themselves for independence. <P>The right to know their origins and to form a personal identity<BR>based on their experiences.<P><BR>Rights adapted from a decision of the Wisconsin Supreme Court and expanded by the authors of this handbook.<P>I am sorry if I didn't do the copyright thing correctly this is from <A HREF="http://www.nncc.org" TARGET=_blank>www.nncc.org</A> <BR>but I really wanted you to read that.<BR>I am not in anyway attacking or judging you (lord knows I am not in that position!!) but I am concerned only for your kids. While this is by far not an ideal situation, your focus now is to make it as easy as you can on your children, THEY are what matter.

lonelymom-<P>He is obligated to give you an address as well as a phone number of where to reach him.<P>You are entitled to half of the tax return.<P>And even if he doesn't pay you a dime in child support, you cannot keep him from having regular contact from the kids.<P>and you might want to think again about not sending the kids with essentials. It will look bad to the courts. Don't send anything that can't be replaced. If he is paying you child support- that responsibility falls on you.<P>Keep a journal on everything that happens....visits, dates that you requested information, child support paid, etc...<BR>( try to get it in the form of a check ) if you start accepting cash, it will make it easier for him to claim he paid you.<P>Good luck,<BR>Lynn

Of course you have a right to know where they are. Even my H mentioned to me that that is required by law. <P>Would you send your kids to a friend's house, or even your mother's, if you didn't know where they would be? What if there is an emergency, and the phone is out - and the most likely time for an emergency is during a storm or natural disaster when phones will likely be out. If I learned one thing from my nephew's murder, it was that PEOPLE SHOULD NEVER BE UNREACHABLE. I spent two days desparately trying to track down my sister as her son lay comatose and dying in the hospital. I would have been over at her house trying to find out if any of her neighbors knew where she was, if her house had been closer than Europe. I was seriously considering calling the police to ask them to see what they could find out. Even if your kids aren't with him, you should have more than one way of reaching your H at all times in case of emergency. <P>In addition, the children, if they are old enough to talk, should ALWAYS know the address where they are staying. <P>I don't remember how old your baby is, but in many states overnight visitation is NOT mandatory until age three or four.<P>What about the children's right not to be burdened with the additional stress of adjusting to a new romantic interest in their father's life while they are still in the early stages of grief over their father's leaving?<P>Plan A is fine, but not when it adversely impacts the children's development. Some of the responses to this post remind me of our former minister's comment about being so open-minded that one's brains fell out. <P>At one point I told my H that I wanted to go to a counselor to discuss child issues. Unfortunately he had already introduced the OW to the kids. Three different counselors told him that it was too soon to introduce the kids to the OW (six weeks after he left). He actually was the one to ask if it was ok to have them sleep there - at that point he had been gone for three months - and the counselor said it was way too soon. He took her advice for several months anyway - of course by then he told my son that I was the one who wouldn't let them sleep over.<P>It is way too soon for them to be introduced to the OW, and WAY WAY too soon for them to sleep over there. Almost any child development specialist would tell him that. I would call one up ASAP. If he does take you to court, it should be easy to find "experts" to testify that less than 2 months is far too soon. <P><p>[This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited February 08, 2000).]

Thanks to all for your replies.<P> In response, I do agree with you on the issue of packing a bag, I can see where I made that decision in poor judgement. It was just that I sent a bag the last two times at his mom's and the favorite blankie didn't come back and the baby hasn't slept good since. Also, I can't afford to replace clothes that didn't come back either.But I will pack the bags and do it for my kids. <P>I also agree that the kids are getting stuck in the middle of this and I am going to try to put an end to that tomorrow. I can only try.<P>I don't feel like I am backing him into a corner. I am backed into a corner. My H walked out on XMAS. Who doesn't think that is a most horrible way to hurt your own kids as my H did. They have put all their new gifts in the basement, and some of it they wanted for months, if I dare bring them up they say throw them out. How sad. <P>I am backed into a corner as he refuses to give me child support, and knows all the bills are piling up. He told me he hopes I lose everything. This is after I have been patient and doing all this Plan A stuff and not once said anything bad. He also has had OW call my house asking for me. At this point, I really have not much to say to her. <P>As far as the address, I found out later today (my post didn't come up for a long time after I tried to put it up), that in my state, I am required to have his address and phone number, and he is required to have mine. I have NO intentions of going there, trust me, I don't even plan to call there, and have refused calling him there since I got the number. As a matter of fact, I haven't called him ONCE since he left. He has initiated all contact. I do send him brief emails strictly related to the kids, such as an upcoming event or something. I am really trying my hardest to do what is right even though he has no concept of that in my life.<P>Lastly, thanks to those who sent me links. I will be searching them tonite with anticipation.<P>I appreciate your honesty and have taken into consideration everything. I am in a strange place today. It has been six weeks since my H left. Up until a week ago, he always let on that he would be back someday (like a year). This past week, he started doing a lot of financial burdening things to me and it directly effects our kids. He even tells the kids to be bad for me. I allow him to call here twice a day to talk to the girls. It consists of "does mommy have guys over", "do guys call the house", "be bad for mommy" , and he interrogates them on their weekend. I am debating on this phone call twice a day business because its not all that legitamate.<P>Oh, before I forget, the kids went to counseling today. I stayed in the waiting room by choice. I asked the counselor to dig deep and find out what THEY really wanted. I told her I would take her recommendations and do what was emotionally best for the kids. I sat there an hour. Playing the past six weeks in my head. My H really is a cruel person these days. To my amazement, the counselor came out an hour later and said that the kids told her they want to see their dad this weekend, but not that lady who stold their dad away. They said they would meet her someday but don't want to meet her now. They said they wanted to see their daddy all alone because they missed him and wanted to be with him. My oldest said that she doesn't understand why daddy kisses mommy, cries and hugs mommy whenever we see each other. (can you imagine her telling OW that this weekend, oh no). The counselor said it is in fact way to soon to subject the kids to this. Primarily because H and I never fought in front of the kids, or hardly at all for that matter, so its not like the seperation was pending or that they would have thought this be normal. She said she is calling him tomorrow and will recommend that right now,it is too soon. SHe also said H called her today and told her I was poisoning the kids minds. She asked the kids if I ever talk bad about daddy or tell them things to say. The kids said no, mommy cries all the time and wishes he would come home. But daddy said he found a new girlfriend that is better than mommy and one day he will take us to be a new family (i didn't even know this was said as I don't ask the kids what is said when they are alone with him). The counselor was very nice and said she will be in touch. <P>I am amazed, I truly am at what they said. Some of it I had no idea. But it sounds like what he would say. Once again thanks to all who replied, I respect all of your opinions, and will try to do my best to keep the kids out of it, so far I have never said a bad thing about H to them and never plan to. I will stick to my guns on the address for now.Only because I never have sent my kids anywhere, and they have been away overnight only a few times. I need to know where they are for peace of mind, It is almost 45 minutes away and will not go there unless an emergency to get the kids.\<P>Thank you all!

lonelymom<P>1st: You have a legal right to know the address and all phone numbers needed to be in contact with your children at all times when they are not in your company. Don't let your H tell you any different. Also be sure your children are able to accept at least one phone call from you during their weekend with their dad.<P>2nd: Pack a bag for your children. DO NOT send anything that can not be easily replaced. Seeing as your H had so little regard for your babies favorite blanket before I would be sure NOT to send anything that is a *broken in* security type item with him again. If your baby uses a ceratin pacifier or bottle go buy a new one to send but do not send the one your baby is used to. As the baby will most likely never see it again and it is more important for those special type things to remain safe in the home the baby will spend most of their time in. Same goes for clothes, etc for your older children. Send the old replaceable stuff. As for sending toys... why not bag up all the Xmas gifts that are in the basement. Let Daddy Dearest see how the kids react to the new stuff they recieved the day he bailed out on his own flesh and blood. He can't complain one bit, after all you are sending the newest toys. <P>3rd: Talk to the children's therapist. Be sure she alerts your H to her recomendations to not introduce the children to the OW. Also make sure she documents what she told him and when. This could be very important if you do divorce.<P>4th: Buy a notebook, journal, whatever. Start documenting EVERYTHING your H says or does that concerns the kids. Keep detailed notes with dates, times, etc. Again if divorce happens the info you jot down will prove very valuable. There is NO WAY you will remember everything, and judges really like to see a parent take this type of action in trying to prove their point.<P>5th: He isn't giving you any money, right? Do you have any other source of income? If not.... CALL A LAWYER *YESTERDAY*. In order to get penny one he must be served with seperation or divorce papers. This can take weeks and somethimes months. After that he will have at least 30 days to respond to your papers. Only then can you (or your lawyer) go in front of a judge to get a support order of any kind. In other words it could be well into summer before he is ordered to give you anything. So even if you want to plan A you still have to eat and have a roof over your heads so these actions are not LBers. It sounds like he might be trying to set up a *She doesn't have the means to support the kids and is not doing anything about it* angle to petition for custody. Now don't let that scare you. If you have been the kids primary caregiver and aren't working the street corners or abusing drugs you should get physical custody. I only mentioned this because it sounds like some of the things your H is saying and doing are like what my niece's H has tried to pull with her and her daughter. He has tried everything to get physical custody and in a last ditch effort he just hired (his 4th by the way) a mens's rights attorney. Of course a snow ball in he!! will have a better chance of success than he will.<P>I totally understand and agree with the kids not being put in the middle. However being a doormat for your H's lack of interest in supporting and parenting your children will snow ball quickley if you don't take action.<P>Example: Niece's daughter has been in many extracuricular activities since her H left her to move in with OW. Niece has begged and borrowed to be able to afford this all for thier child. Now the child wants to continue the activities. All of Nieces sources of extra income are tapped out. Niece goes to her stbx to ask for money to sign D up for spring activities. Daddy Dearest tells her to go fly a kite. He has no plans of paying for anything above and beyond CS. The child now looks to her mom wanting to know why she can't continue her activities. Mom is in a really bad spot in her daughter's eyes. She tells D she simply can no longer afford it, no finger pointing towards the father. D asks dad if he'll pay for her activities. Daddy Dearest tells her he wil pay for EVERYTHING if she moves in with him and his fiance (yes, he isn't even divorced from the childs mother but is already engaged to the OW, and the OW is sporting a 2K diamond ring : <P>Moral of the story: People will treat you the way you have taught them you will allow them to.<P>Fingers Crossed<BR>(who thinks her H's family must have a immoral gene in their gene pool)<P>

Lonelymom,<P>I have to agree with K on this...<BR>The principles of Dr.Harley for marrital recovery go against <B>ALL</B> logic and reason...In fact they are completely unnatural...Learn all you can about <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A> and strive to eliminate them...Then decide on a plan-a or plan-b...Do them perfectly...Your H will see the changes in you and have to adjust to them...From what I've seen those that have the patience to successfully do them win in the end...However the end may be...<P>Bill<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

I unfortunitly came to this post after I posted to you in my old one. That's me always a day late and a dollar short! I agree with the above. I would certainly want an address, all I could think about was child abduction by spouse but then if he took off with them what good would an address be right? <BR> As to meeting the OW, (heres where I jump on my high horse again) No, I do not want her near my kids!! I don't care if she's Princess Di.God rest her soul... but she's the reason Daddy is doing all this to his family. Well give me my soap box again so I can get down off my high horse... <BR> Let the baby be fussy for them because he/she doesn't have her favorite blanket or pacifier. Unless he has a temper... then he might lose it an hurt the baby. Take the guy to court, a guy who says be mean to Mommy and wants you to lose everything deserves to be made accountable, now how<BR>did I end up on that horse again? Must be a short one, to so easily end up there so often!! <P>------------------<BR>Peg

I guess I should have given more details in my original post. I am glad you guys don't think I am a jerk for demanding an address. I found out today that H mom did run off with the kids twice while she had a visitation from the dad. So if H mom is fueling the fire, she sure could be giving him all this ammo. The tax thing, that was his parents problem years ago too.<BR> I put a new post up today. Thanks guys!