I'm in Plan A with WW right now. She has rented an apartment and has been slowly packing all of her things and moving things to new apartment over last couple of weeks.

She plans to be completely moved out by next weekend with our three kids.

She is still having A with OM.

I've avoided all conversation about our relationship. When we talk, it is about non-related safe topics. I have told her in the past, after D-Day that I will fight for our M and want to save our M. I've asked her to give us another chance. But since about two weeks ago, I haven't talked about us at all.

It feels weird not talking about our relationship since it is the topic that is on my mind constantly but I don't want to smother her or push her away by bringing up things.

During Plan A, is it appropriate to talk to WW about our relationship and to re-iterate my hopes to save our marriage?

I've resisted the urge to send her emails that profess my love for her and my desire for her to change her mind and come back. I don't want to seem desperate or like a schmuck so I've laid off on that stuff. Besides, she doesn't believe that I love her and she thinks I just want her back for convenience. But I'm worried that if I don't periodically express my desires that my WW will think that I don't care anymore if she's moving out.

Does anyone have any advise about this?

Yes.

Here's the thing, all the advice I'm about to give you will be things you don't want to hear.

You have your fatherhood to protect and a relationship with a child to protect and you're about to do something which will jeapordize that in a big way.

You will really diminish your chances at a good visitation arrangement if you let her move out with your son.

This isn't a joke and it is time to wake up.

I've been in your shoes. I didn't fight hard enough from the start and it took years of fighting to finally get a good arrangement with my children.

Trust me on this. You will lose a lot if you let this move happen and let her take your children.

What do you need to do?

First, let her know that if she wishes to move out, that she can, but your biological child stays. That's your child and you will not simply let her walk out with him.

Second, start talking to a lawyer like yesterday. You need to get an order placing that child in your home.

Don't give me excuses about why you can't have the child in your house full time. Jobs can wait. Your rights as a father are in danger and she's taking advantage of you being in shell shock and with hopes of reconciliation to plan her exit.

TRUST ME! I lived this.

Finally, your step kids aren't yours. You have to let them go. You have no rights to them at all in the eyes of the law.

But you do to your own child.

This is a massive wakeup call for you to take action.

You're afraid of doing so and ticking her off and ruining your chances.

She'll say things like, "If you make this hard, then there will be no chance for us to ever be together again."

Meaning, "let me go easily. I'll let you see your kid when I feel like it."

I can't emphasize enough how critical it is for you to establish an immediate legal order that your child stays in the marital home.

Father's have rights. Forget all you've ever heard about women winning custody most of the time. They do it because father's often surrender custody to them.

You will be doing just that if you don't take action immediately to protect your rights as a father.

Ironically enough, it's through being strong and taking action and protecting your rights and letting her know that you aren't going to make this easy that you stand the greatest chance to save your marriage and turn things around.

The men who do well here are the ones who set aside the devastation and take immediate action. The ones who don't are the ones who are afraid of angering their wives and make things easy for their wives in the hopes that doing so will bring the wives back.

It doesn't. The wives who want to return are the ones who leave husbands who didn't make things easy or who stand up right away and fight.

You need to start by doing things she isn't going to like, such as exposing to your family, her family, and letting her know that she isn't taking your son anywhere.

Whelp, that pretty much answers my question. Here's why I haven't filed the temporary custody thing yet, which my attorney said that I could file and keep our son in my house for 60 days:

Mr. Wondering sited a situation where the H kept his child 3 days and let his WW have the child 3 days, on and off until the divorce was filed. This set a precedent and the H was awarded full custody. I was going to try this.

My attorney said that until someone has filed a petition for divorce or separation, anything goes as far as who has physical custody of the child.

The other idea I had was to file the temporary custody thing once WW gets all her stuff moved out. This would be EXTREMELY inconvenient for WW because she will have moved all of the big stuff out of the house (including beds, etc) and will either have to move everything back again for 60 days to stay at home with our son in our house, or be forced to let me have full physical custody for that duration which would set a precedent for me to have full custody.

I'm sure she would move back into the house as opposed to letting me have our son full time. This would really mess with her world because she's spent a lot of time moving already.. I want her to feel the consequences of her actions as much as possible.

Either way, I am 100% sure that I am going to file for full custody even if it's a slim chance, because my attorney said that usually you get something in between..

I'm going to bet that things go greatly in your WW's favour if you do this AFTER she's moved out with your kid. After all, you're allowing her to go with your kid, right?

I am not a lawyer, but IMO the "separation / temporary custody" thing should be handed to your WWW on the day she moves. If she goes with your kid (as she likely will) - you call the police. Her refusal to obey the court order should work wonderfully against her when you file for full custody.

Forgive me for being blunt, erichh, but you need to get your attorney on the phone or get your [censored] to the office and have him start drafting those papers!!! If you do it ASAP in the early a.m. Tuesday they can file them before Christmas. Don't wait!!! Just do it!! PLEASE, before she moves out with your child!!

Charlotte

In my state, you could be perceived as abandoning the kids.

Also, from the one lawyer I talked to, the kids should stay at home. Period.

Let you wife move out, if she must. Let her be perceived as abandoning her children.

Mr W is a TAX lawyer. I suggest you get a good fathers rights attorney on board NOW. There is NO way you should be letting her leave with your son without a written agreement that you will have at least 50% custody.

This is yet another example of how Plan A is not effective for a BH....especially one who will lie down while his wife takes his child.

:RollieEyes:

Ditto what everyone else is saying. The minute that child takes up residence anywhere other than your home, you have lost custody. Oh sure, your attorney will put up a fight - a long and expensive one, but you will have lost so much ground you will be thrilled to get every second weekend in the end.

Don't assume your WW will be fair.

Don't assume your WW has your child's best interests at heart.

Don't assume she will do the right thing.

The OWH in my sitch let his WW (my stbx's OW) move out with their DD. He was still picking her up from school every day and had her about 50% of the time. Then one day WW moved to another city. Bought a house with my Wstbx and attempted to transfer DD to a local school. She needed OWH's signature, which was probably the only reason she told him about it at all. He filed an emergency hearing but all the judge said was while she shouldn't have moved without informing him first, it was too late. She now has full custody and he is supposed to get every second weekend.

It gets worse. Since she lives with her OW (my Wstbx), he is listed at the school as her dad. He goes to all the parent-teacher interviews and all the school concerts. Though her dad always took her to church and was helping her prepare for her first communion, now Wstbx does this and the family church now recognizes him as her father. (yes, this is a catholic church that pretends to hate adultery) This is an 8 year old girl - not a baby who would recognize her own father. OWH's OW cancels weekends all the time and there's very little he can do legally.

Basically, he gave up parenting rights when he allowed her to move out. Now he has to fight for every scrap, plus pay a fortune in child support.

Call your lawyer RIGHT NOW!!! Do not delay. And do NOT allow that woman to leave the house with your child.

You need to have papers in hand for the temporary order when she is ready to move out. Once she moves out, your hopes for custody will be severely diminished. She will establish a precedent (having custody of your kid at her new address) that will be hard to overturn, especially since your WW is a SAHM and your child has half-siblings. Do not let her move out. Get the court order ready.

What happens when she moves out, establishes her new residency, and then files for D? Then you will be up [censored] creek without a paddle.

The initial question that was asked in this thread is one that I'm curious to hear the answer to as well. It seemed like he was asking if he should try to talk about the relationship even when WW is not interested (and actually opposed) to talking about the relationship?

With my WW, we talk some about our issues, but generally those days are much rougher than days where we just try to be normal (because WW wants to just act normal like nothing happened).

I called my attorney this morning. She can't do anything until after January 5!!! So I called another attorney who I was referred to and he said that he would meet with me next Monday to get all the papers drawn up. He said that in my state I can't get an emergency custody hearing.

He said there is nothing that can be done quickly enough to prevent my son from moving out this weekend... He said that it shouldn't set a precedent for her to have full custody because I still live at our house that my son lived in his whole life. I still feel very uncomfortable with him moving out though.

He said that technically I can try to keep my son at home with a physical tug-of-war with my WW and son but he said not to do that because it would only traumatize our son.

My WW's apartment is a government subsidized two bedroom apartment so she'll either have to cram all three kids in one bedroom or share her own bedroom with one of the kids. This doesn't seem like an ideal situation for the kids but we'll have to see what the judge says.

I hope I didn't act too late.

Okay, then TELL her she is not taking your son from the house. Call the cops if you have to. The OWH in my sitch stayed in the only house his DD had ever lived in until the A. OW moved her to a crammed little apartment where she had to sleep on the sofa. It didn't matter. Because she was already out of the house, the law wouldn't make her go back. Even when OW secretly bought a house and moved to a city 30 minutes away, because it was already done, the law didn't make her go back. If the OW were to secretly move 8 hours away, it won't matter because it will have already been done before OWH can take action.

You've heard the saying, "pick your battles." This is a battle worth fighting.

You might make a proactive call to your local police station.
Ask to speak to someone about a domestic dispute.
Ask for a name and number you can call in an emergency because you anticipate your wife may attempt to take your son away from his current residence against your will and without authority of a court order.

Even if you don't get much information out of that proactive call, you will be on record voicing your concerns.

EVERY state will have an emergency custody hearing. PUSH for it.


Go away for a few days with your child this weekend BEFORE she tries to take him away. When she is gone...change the locks and get an alarm system installed.

We have what's called an ex parte (restraining order) in my state but the judge won't grant it unless the kids are in physical danger. I don't feel like they are in physical danger and I'd prob have to lie to come up with something.

I did call my WW's 1st ex-husband and told him everything that is going on. He said that he was shaking as I told him everything and that he was scared for his daughter! I told him that I was going for full custody and that if he was going to do something legal against her, now would be the time. He asked how much a retainer would cost and I told him it was $2000. He says he is in the middle of a bankruptcy but his inlaws are very wealthy and would probably loan him the money.

I really think he may actually try to get custody of his daughter!!! This would be so great for us to hit her at the same time.

He told me some things that I didn't know about WW. She had TWO affairs while married to him. And she was NOT separated during the first affair.

First ex-husband and I are going to keep in close contact from now on because he is worried about his daughter as he should be...

I did this today. Nothing they can do but now there is a call from my cell phone documenting that I called.

Ok, I don't know how I'm going to do it yet without a legal document in hand, but I'm not letting my son move out with my WW this weekend. She'll have to peel him away from my kung-fu grip to take him away from me.

I'm going to have to play this smart though. I'm not sure if I should tell WW before hand that I'm not going to allow her to take him, because then she may try something sneaky like taking him in the middle of the night or something...

Sorry for starting this new thread. Please go to the original thread from here on out... My bad.

Original thread

This is GREAT!!! It's too bad about the other father. I wish he would get on board with y'all as well. Did you try to call him?

Charlotte