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if i forgive in my heart - will i smile and say hello when i see the OW (plural)??

please tell me you are not serious

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HI Pep-

But if i could do that - wouldnt it mean that she did not control my emotions? That she had no power over me? that she was a mere nothing on this earth?

that she was a broken person? that i could actually feel NO UPSET inside when i saw her?

wouldnt this be great and liberating??

SF


BS- me 56; FWH-58
3 kids, DS 23,23 DD 14; Married: 34 years
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Some new developments-
i feel like i am waking up from a long sleep and finally seeing my FWH for who he has been his whole life... and i dont know now if i want to stay.
we watched the first video of dr. harley in the MB home study course last night - and i felt upset.
i never knew how bad our marriage really was - and how stupid i was for staying in the marriage.
my H never cared at all what my feelings or needs were. i was totally intimidated by him - and i didnt even know what my own feelings and needs were.
i didnt know who i was. NOW i know and realize how abused i have been- what a giver i was - and how selfish his basic personality is.
lets face it - only a truly selfish person could have an affair and totally disregard their spouse's feelings and only care about their own - and my H had 12 affairs!! and that is not even counting the EA- which i am sure there are more of- this is just the 12 PA.
So - here is my question to you who have stayed in the marriage after infidelity - WHAT IS THE ADVANTAGE OF STAYING? ISNT IT BETTER FOR THE BS TO JUST START FRESH WITH A NEW PERSON?
i think my FWH will always be an unkind, insensitive person - who acts that way naturally - TRYING to become a kind, sensitive person - and i will always be the teacher - reminding him when his is insensitive .
our conversations are totally flat - there is mostly silence. i see his recovery as mostly things he is NOT doing.
i told him that i am willing to give the MB home study course a chance and if that doesnt work - i want out of the marriage. i dont feel attracted to him or enjoy spending time with him.
anyone else been down this road??
SF


BS- me 56; FWH-58
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S-55,

Yes. Anger and resentment. I know those feelings.


You ask if the forgiveness was instant. Yes, and no.

No in the sense that it took me years to come to the realization that I needed to forgive in order to get myself into the place where I could move forward in my own life. To the point of understanding, within myself, that to carry the anger and resentment and hatred of these people with me was doing nothing but creating a person of me that was curling up and dying. I was becoming what they were - ugly, dark, hateful.

I was being controlled - every single day - by what had happened to me, and by what they had done to me.

When I realized that, I came to view myself from a completely different place. I suddenly understood that there had to be a mechanism of release from them, from this past, and from these events - because for me to be ME, and for me to HEAL, there HAD TO BE FREEDOM from THEM.

This didn't really happen in one moment - but yes, the actual forgiveness moment did happen in one event. I had an epiphany, and it was a glorious moment in my life. Somehow, there was a moment in my life when my musings all came together, and this event did in fact take place for me.

I can only describe this as a day in which I became able to once again see colors, hear things that once seemed muted to me, smell things again, and I can honestly tell you that the moment set my life onto a completely different track than it had been before.

From that very moment, my life changed. I no longer abused alcohol, and never again felt a need to do so. Never.

I no longer abused drugs, and never again felt any desire for them.

I no longer cried at night. I no longer begged God for his mercy. I no longer prayed to forget. I no longer worried and fretted.

I didn't have fear when I called my home, afraid that my father might answer. I faced him without any fear whatsoever, in fact, my countenance toward him changed so dramatically I was able to hold a completely normal conversation with him, and began visiting my mother in person again. I was also no longer afraid that my brother might be present. I actually was able to attend family functions, and have been able to do so since that date - without any hesitation whatsoever.

I have no explanation except that I have had this event of complete forgiveness in my life for these people. Again, I do note that my father has since taken responsibility, my brother never has.



I did go through what you describe above regarding the thoughts about your husband's affairs. My husband has had four physical affairs, so I can relate in some fashion. He also had an emotional affair while he was in college, and when he left me for our brief separation way back when, it was for another emotional affair.


He did change, for a long time - for 28 good years, in between the third and fourth physical affairs. Some would say he didn't really "change" at all. I disagree. He did change, and was a man of worth and honor. Then, he was doing things that he had not done for a long time - one was drinking heavily, and the other followed the drinking, which was viewing porn. The affair followed. In our dissection of what happened, part of what we believe led to his affair was probably depression on his part.

That's not an excuse, but one factor in this mess.

Your husband, well, he might be a good person, he might be a bad person. I don't know him.

You've decided to give this thing a try.

My advice? Then give it a REAL TRY. If, somewhere down the road after you have tried - really tried - and you feel you have satisfied your own definition of "really tried", if you feel like this is NOT the marriage for you, then you have the right to walk away. That's your choice. The reason I advise you to try first is because you strike me as the kind of person who might look back and say:

I should have tried harder first, before I walked away.

Maybe, if I had just completed that MB course, it would have worked out.

I didn't really give him the chance I should have. I quit too soon.



I wanted to quit once or twice. I got good and angry, too. I hung in there.

Today, my H is cooking dinner for me. It smells great. We're looking forward to Christmas with our girls, our dog, our new kitten. And, our new marriage. We just started over again, and I'm glad I was able to forgive.


Yes, it was easier because I had "experience" in forgiving. But given the chance, I would go back and NEVER have that experience. Believe me.

SB


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Originally Posted by sunflower55
lets face it - only a truly selfish person could have an affair and totally disregard their spouse's feelings and only care about their own - and my H had 12 affairs!! and that is not even counting the EA- which i am sure there are more of- this is just the 12 PA.
So - here is my question to you who have stayed in the marriage after infidelity - WHAT IS THE ADVANTAGE OF STAYING? ISNT IT BETTER FOR THE BS TO JUST START FRESH WITH A NEW PERSON?
SF

SF, I see no advantage in staying with your H in your case unless he makes DRAMATIC PERSONAL CHANGES. A person who has 12 affairs is a profoundly abusive individual who should not be married. You would be crazy to subject yourself to further abuse or to imagine you could change him. You cannot change this man.

It would take a MAJOR demonstration of personal change along with a very affair proofed, transparent lifestyle to make me believe such a person has changed. If you don't see that, then you are a VOLUNTEER for his abuse and are an active contributor to your own demise.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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SB -
Once again you reach into my heart and read me so well.

i soooo wish for your epiphany in forgiving my H. I will pray for it. i will read and reread your post and try to learn that if you can forgive your brother - who never even asked for forgiveness - then i can do it too. i know i can - i need to keep working in my head to get to that place.

as far as what you say about REALLY trying - i know in my soul about myself - that i need to do that too.

you are right - dr. harley writes in the home study course that everyone who completes it - falls back in love with their spouse. in my heart of heart - i want and hope for that to happen.
BUT - it can only happen if we have a healthy marriage.

i dont just want to co - exist - i want a marriage that dr harley talks about - where we spend our 15 hours together of undivided attention - where we meet each other's ENs- where we love to spend time together.

the problem - as i stated - is that i truly believe that my H wants with his whole being to change into a perfect spouse - but he just lacks the skills. he is so used to living his life only thinking of himself - that he has no idea how to have a conversation that i would like to participate in; how to have empathy for another person.

he immediately gravitates to himself. then when i point it out - he gets it and says - that wont happen again.

then my frustration sets in - thinking - will i always be the one to point out how to be a sensitive kind man? i dont want that.

the examples just seem so trivial - that i dont even want to say them.
YES - he has changed so much - but i think that since he was so abusive and selfish - he just has that much farther to go - so even though he has changed - it is still taking us so long to come together.

the issue with the working out in the basement - it is solved. after i told him how i hated working out there with him - he decidided not to do it either.
we are looking at buying new equipment that we both like.

i hope MB will help us with converstaion - because our converstaion does not flow. we dont have much to talk about when we are alone. we have been so seperate for so long....

i will do as you suggest - REALLY TRY. then i can know that i did everything i could humanly do for myself and for my family.

one therapist - said to me - "He is going to change. The love is in the trying. Just be patient. Why shouldnt you be the beneficiary of his changes?"

i will try to remember and forgive. i will try and try, SF


BS- me 56; FWH-58
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Mel -
Thanks for your honesty. You are right - my H was a "profoundly abusive individual", who shouldnt have been married. and i was the person who stayed with him.
As far as dramatic personal changes - he has made them all - but i am still waiting for him to become the kind, sensitive man i want to live with.

he had a different job, he has changed the way he looks , he has changed his hobbies, he has given up contact with almost all of his friends - except for 3. he has complete transparency. he calls me multiple times daily, he buys little gifts for me freguently. he pursues me to do MB. he takes yoga with me. he makes weekly dates to meet our sons for coffee and talk. he sleeps in with me. he yearns for me- yet i reject him.

i still need to see a total different person INSIDE to trust him. you are totally right about that.

i will give MB home study course a chance. but i will no longer EVER be a volunteer for his abuse again. i will only be cherished and loved.

SF


BS- me 56; FWH-58
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S-55,

Remember, you do not have to stay married. If you decide that you have tried and he has not changed, that he has not reached the point of being the spouse you deserve, you do have the right to leave.

You do not have to make THIS marriage perfect. That may not be possible - but I think that you do have the kind of personality that you describe, where you want to try before giving up. I think that is good. It would be important, though, to know if your efforts are worthwhile, and if he is actually following through and if he is being successful in changing.

It might be very good if you had outside therapy, or someone to help you follow his progress in making those changes. That way, you wouldn't be alone in deciding whether or not your continued efforts were valuable, or being wasted on someone who truly was not able to make a connection with you (or anybody else - from what you describe!).

At some point in your life, whether you stay with your husband, or if you divorce him, forgiving him will be an issue. It doesn't much matter if it is now or later, to tell you the truth. Because in my opinion, forgiving him won't lead to your loving him more or less. Really, it won't change your feelings toward him in that regard. What it will do for you is open the door for you to be able to look at him much more objectively, and allow your own thoughts toward him to be less cluttered with fear, doubt, anger, frustration, etc. It just clears you and frees you from that stuff - and lets you look at a person in a different way. At least that's what it did for me. It didn't make me love my brother more or less, it didn't make me not love my dad or love my dad, when I forgave them. It didn't make me forget what happened, and it didn't make me change my opinion about the criminal nature of the neighbor boys. It just freed ME of many complicated feelings - allowing me to focus on the next phase of my life.

You might find that forgiveness actually allows you to leave your husband. Or to stay with him. Who knows? But it will clear your head.

SB


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SB-
you are right - the forgiveness can clear my head - and it is beginning to do that. i am beginning to look at the world clearly and see everything as it is - not as i want it to be.

i was constantly making excuses for my H in every way. now i just see him as he is ... an abused child who became an abuser; narcisstic, selfish, adulterer, double personality, mean man who woke up - and now is trying to change his life - to become all the opposites.
BUT - now - as i see him clearly - i see how his changes are happening, but are not INSIDE him yet.
since i am the eternal optimist - i hope that they will eventually be inside him, but i wait to see.
my own therapist would be a good idea. our marriage therapist - he says that i am past the one year mark - and have no right to bring up the past anymore- that i am just trying to punish him.
then my other therapist - says that my H is in recovery. that we each need to become individuals who walk together not needing each other - complete in our own right. she feels that he is on the right path but that he is a recovering addict and needs to attend a 12 step program.
i am thinking that maybe we should try the harley therapist. what do you think?

SF


BS- me 56; FWH-58
3 kids, DS 23,23 DD 14; Married: 34 years
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ok - ANOTHER CARD ARRIVED IN THE MAIL TODAY - PLEASE TELL ME IF THIS IS APPROPRIATE - (this is from a co-worker)
Dear mr. .....,
i just want to wish you and your family a very happy holiday. THANK YOU FOR EVERYTHING. (Underlined in caps) i miss you and keep you and your family in my prayers.
Sincerely,
woman's name and family

this card arrived one and a half years after he left his job and to our home address!!

i am not saying that my FHW had an affair with this person - but i am saying that he was innapropriate in some way to open the door to let this woman send this card.

so i call my H ,and ask him if he was innapropriate with this woman - based on what we have learned . he says NO .

after all we have learned in MB about how to act with the opposite sex, he still does not own himself. he was A HOPELES FLIRT WHO FLIRTED WITH EVERY WOMAN HE MET - YOUNG OR OLD. I AM SURE HE WAS OVERLY HELPFUL TO HER AND OVERLY NICE TOO.

it is not even the card- it is his inability to see how he was. i think i am finished. i cant take it anymore.

of course - he can not control the cards that arrive, but he can control he admits to what happened in the past.

SF


BS- me 56; FWH-58
3 kids, DS 23,23 DD 14; Married: 34 years
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Maybe she's just one of those people who are diligent about keeping up with their Christmas card list. I think you are over-reacting but that's IMHO.

Let it go. Don't let it fester in your craw.

Charlotte


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S-55,


Sometimes a Christmas card is just a Christmas card.


I have sent cards to families, and old friends, and sometimes their addresses pop up just because I was opening up a box of ornaments and found a card they had sent to me a couple of years ago or something like that. They mean only what they said, Merry Christmas, I miss you, remembering you, whatever - take her prayers to heart. It is possible that she just simply liked him as a person (it is possible!) or that she just liked his jokes. The times are bad economically, and maybe she just thought of him and related it to a happier time in the office - you just never know. Give it the benefit of the doubt, and don't buy more trouble than you already have.

At this point, let it be just a Christmas wish for your family.


Sometimes we trigger because we are overly sensitive. Try to be still.


SB


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I'm glad you've got therapists on board. The Harleys might be helpful for you two - and I think they are probably pretty good at judging folks. From what I've read here, they are very helpful, and they are excellent in getting marriages back on track, as well as being able to call people on bad behavior and lead them to where they ought to be - only they do it through coaching and not traditional therapy. So you keep the therapists and add the coaches.


I have given lots of thought to the forgiveness thing. One of the essences of forgiving (in Western thought) comes from the concept that Christians have in their own religion. In this framework, Jesus came to Earth for the sole purpose of redemption of the souls of those who believe in God. This redemption is available to anyone - that Jesus, and therefore God, allows all people on Earth to come before Him and be renewed and forgiven.

That is quite an amazing concept, when you think of it.

A person is worthy of forgiveness for any possible sin - anything.


And is offered redemption, simply for the asking. Complete and holy redemption, free of charge - to believe in God, to change your behavior and your belief, to "go and sin no more".

Forgiveness, a clean slate.


This tells me that there is a full and complete example of forgiveness there, for me to follow.

Then, there is Jesus on the cross.

This example set before me does not request that those doing the harm even request forgiveness. They are causing terrible pain to Jesus, killing him.

And Jesus requests of God - "Forgive them Father."


That tells me that the one being forgiven need not even ask the forgiveness for himself. The example there, a very difficult one to follow. But it is set, nonetheless.


I read that as Jesus seeing their brokenness, their depravity as just so pitiful that he cannot help but look at them as helpless beyond belief - so they must be forgiven, as they must be lifted up because they are so needy.



I guess I just see this in those who have hurt me - they were, maybe still are, broken.

We all are broken, in some way or another, aren't we?

Needing help, needing lifted. So who am I to keep someone else down? I turn to others every day for help. Maybe tomorrow, I will need the very person who needs me to forgive him today. I cannot know.

I must work to forgive. I cannot know what will be asked of me tomorrow.

SB


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SB-
this is the second card - from a woman that has been delivered to our house and has inappropriate sentiments. the last one was on his birthday in may. it was from a single woman that he admitted to giving way too much attention. it was much more familiar than this one. it was signed "love" and included her e mail address. it was so painful for me - brought back all the pain of the affairs and finding out.
i knew in my heart both times that these were not women he had PA with - because he had no reason to lie after telling me so much. BUT - i had watched him flirt and act ridiculous with women for years, and i knew he had done that with these two also.
you say to be still.....

maybe the pain of how he acted all these years is just too much for a person to heal from...

he MADE every person he met, like him. he worked so hard at it... overcomplementing them, pretending to be interested in them, you know the kind of AH man that most women hate - THAT WAS HIM!!
he was NOT that way when we dated and first married. he was still charismatic, but not over the top as he became as time went by.

OK - i will put this away . i know when a person lives in S***, some still gets stuck on their shoes.

it will be hard, but when he comes home , i will listen with an open heart to his lame explanation.
what i would love - would be for him to reach inside himself and react to the pain i am feeling as this has opened a file for me. ...

lets see, SF


BS- me 56; FWH-58
3 kids, DS 23,23 DD 14; Married: 34 years
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SB -

YES - we will call the Harleys and schedule some phone time with them. we need it.

i LOVED your thoughts on forgiveness - yes - even though i am Jewish - i can understand all your thoughts.
in our religion - we believe that a person must do three things to be forgiven by G-d-
1) Repent -say you are sorry and make a total character transformation. the person must apologize to the person they hurt and to G-d.
2) Pray
3) Charity

i know that my H has done all of these and the rabbi told him that G-d has already forgiven him. it is I.

i think i am moving toward forgiving - it is not an epiphany as you had - but a more peaceful feeling.

DOES TRUSTING A PERSON COME NATURALLY AFTER FORGIVENESS?

dr harley says that our love banks are actually ways to protect us; that we shouldnt trust people who have depleted them and not refilled them.

thats where i am.

all his changes are not making me trust him again. i pray the MB course will. we did the CD and lesson 1 in HNHN last night.

i think it takes an amazing person to forgive someone who has not even asked - as you have.

i relate this to teh OW who were my 'friends". i only confronted them one time each and then wrote them hateful letters.

i need to forgive them also - in my heart- even though they did not ask.

thanks for weighing in on this,
SF


BS- me 56; FWH-58
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I have no need to trust the people in the neighborhood, so the question of trusting them never crossed my mind.

For years, I could not, and did not, trust my own father. Now that he has repented, yes, I do trust him. I know that his changes are true and thorough.

My brother? No, he is not trustworthy. He has not changed, but has shown a downward spiral in his life. He drinks, does drugs, and I know that his pitiful heart is pained and damaged. He is a broken man, who struggles with his own soul every day.

Read Ernest Hemingway's "A Clean, Well-Lighted Place". It is a very short story, and it will explain the feelings of men like my brother. They do not sleep, they do not escape themselves. He is one of these men.


My husband - do I trust him? Not yet. I worry about things when I am triggered. Other times, the trust is there, yes. It is creeping back in. I trust him when he goes to town to get groceries. But there is one woman in our past that I just don't trust is truly gone - because she continues to pop into our lives. Maybe like your Christmas card lady.

Shred the card, in front of your husband. Put the leftovers into an envelope with a note FROM YOUR HUSBAND - a no contact letter - and send it back to her. Tell him those are the conditions, that you can only deal with this if he protects you, and that is what you need for protection from this woman and her insistence on contacting him/you. Tell him it needs to go in the mail today.

Besides, if you are JEWISH, what in the world is she doing sending you a Christmas card? Sheesh. There is no common sense...at least send a card for the appropriate religious holiday!

:happyhanukkah:



Happy Hanukkah!


SB


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Sunflower55,

I've been told I have a serious character flaw because I haven't forgiven my wife already, so you're doing pretty well for being only 17 months into this mess.


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K,

From my observations, you are still stuck in the anger.


I'm not one to say it is a character flaw. I carried my anger with me for 17 years follow the rapes.

It did me no good. It tore me down as a person. I did not grow as an individual, and was not able to develop any functional - or worthy - relationships with anyone during those years. My personal psyche remained RIGHT THERE, stuck in those moments. The anger continued to grow, and I...did not.

Looking back, I wonder, had I not forgiven, where would I be now? I know I would not be married, because I was spiraling downward as a human being. I had no relationship with my parents, none with my brother who was the GOOD brother, my marriage was a mess because I was not able to have a "normal" disagreement with anybody, my job was a mess because I was not able to take criticism or direction without believing it to be a personal attack, I was drinking and doing drugs........

and my so-called friends helped me spiral down.



The people in my life did nothing to lift me up - they didn't have the fortitude to even tell me that my "character" was flawed, and that perhaps I needed to explore something. My husband was the only one who did. Thank God for that. If he hadn't told me, I would not have called a rape hotline (17 years after the fact), and would never have understood what was happening in my mind.


Krazy, your anger has the possibilities of keeping you trapped in this place for a very long time. Your choice. I would submit that keeping a tight grip on the anger can be a fear that letting go of it is a fear of looking weak - that anger makes you look strong.

It only makes you look - angry. Maybe it makes you look self-righteous after awhile.

And after a couple of years, it makes you look bitter.

And after a few more years, it makes you look unforgiving and stubborn.

And after that, it makes you look spiteful and hateful. And worse, it begins to erode your soul.


Just from my own experience.




SB


Lucky to be where I am, in a safe place to get marriage-related support.
Recovered.
Happy.
Most recent D-day Fall 2005
Our new marriage began that day. Not easily, but it did happen.
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I found this post over in the recovery forum and I was hoping it might shed some light on your situation regarding the process of recovery and the role forgiveness plays. Sorry you are in this situation.


Quote
So if you are reading this and you are wondering or hoping to get to a place where you can breathe again I have a few tips that I learned that made a difference in how I viewed myself, my life, my marriage and my wife. It is a hodge-podge of information all gathered from the best minds in “recovery land” and of course my own painful and rewarding journey. Let’s call these items the “Recovery Keys”.

RECOVERY KEY No. 1 (TIME)
First, there is NO magic recipe to get to the other side. It takes TIME and a lot of it. Know it for a fact, right now. You are here for the long haul. That is just the way it is. Throw the calendar in the trash can, time is unimportant in this world. As the calendar pages flip life will begin to make sense once more. Unfortunately it takes time and patience. No matter what else you do it or how well you do it, time and patience will always be the order of the day.

RECOVERY KEY No. 2 (MUTUAL DESIRE)
Second, recovery will not start until both husband and wife want it to. It takes two to Tango. So if you have a spouse who is still lost in the “beauty” of the other person you will not begin to enjoy the benefits of recovery until your spouse stops ALL contact with the OP and their feelings of withdraw have subsided. If you are the wayward spouse reading this and you commit to “no contact” it will be very soon that you discover that the OP was not so great but that those “lovey-dovey” feelings were the real hook. Perhaps you could have those same feeling with your spouse? Now we’re talking!

You know, it is important to understand that the whole idea of “recovery” is misnomer. I don’t think anyone here wants to “recover” what they had pre-affair which is almost always a flawed marriage where one spouse, the other or both are not communicating in an honest fashion, have no boundaries with the opposite sex, living in a make-believe world and have little true understanding what this whole idea of marriage really means. Nope, don’t need to “recover” that. Instead the object of the game is to build something brand spanking new, a marriage or relationship where both husband and wife become important to each other. The object is to build something where the welfare of each is precious, valuable and long lasting. Doesn’t that sound great? Who in their right mind would argue with that? Here is the best part, it is readily available to both husband and wife and all they need to do is to desire it. Yep, that’s it; if you want it it’s YOURS for the picking. I have yet to se!
e an instance where both husband and wife wanted to recover and failed. Recovery is assured, 100 percent guaranteed if both spouses really want it. But before that happens it helps a great deal to understand a few things. After all, you are not really recovering anything but instead you and your spouse are constructing something new and better and there is the “right way” and “wrong way” to do this.

RECOVERY KEY No. 3 (FORGIVENESS)
A note about forgiveness and infidelity, not very many people really understand it. I am amazed that there are books written about only this subject. So, if you are a spouse who thinks you need to forgive your husband or wife you are likely wrestling with this concept on a daily basis. It’s a real hand wringer. I’ve been there. I discovered to my dismay that I felt virtually powerless to make forgiveness happen. Oh sure, I said the words; I even posted my sincere forgiveness in these pages, but somehow those words lacked the commitment and feeling of forgiveness. After all, I despised everything that my wife had done, all those terrible selfish acts of cruelty. How could I ever forgive her and really mean it?

As I was dying a million deaths over this, she was doing everything she could to show that she wanted to be part of the marriage again, that she both wanted and needed me, her long lost husband. Then I noticed something happening. As each day passed I began to see my wife in a slightly different light. What started as an insurmountable mountain of betrayal changed as she became relentless in showing her commitment to our marriage and her remorse for her past behavior. That caused me to raise my eyebrow and wonder just how long she could keep it up. Was this real or just an act? And you know what? I started to believe! Bit by bit her determination is winning me over. Inch by inch I am feeling that she really deserves a second chance. Drop by drop my self-esteem and confidence is returning. But did I forgive her? Darn it, I still harbored some significant pain and while the baggage was certainly lighter I still felt a load on my shoulders. And then it hit me!

Forgiveness is the final evolution of recovery.

Some folks might think that they need to forgive their spouse before they can recover, but I suggest that it doesn’t happen that way at all. Nope, forgiveness is a result of recovery and not the other way around. Forgiveness is a consequence of all the other recovery tasks that husband and wife do. I might even suggest that once you have forgiven your spouse you have recovered. Forgiveness is the pinnacle of recovery, the Holy Grail that signifies that that you may have arrived at the finish line.

Not every marriage can be recovered, but there are bunches of betrayed spouses out there that have closed the door on forgiveness altogether and post with questions why their recoveries are not proceeding and what can they do get unstuck. They are the group that will not even entertain the possibility of forgiveness. There is NO Mountain that their spouse can climb to show that they deserve the opportunity to be forgiven. There are others who will not allow forgiveness to be an option because it means that they will be giving themselves up to the possibility of further betrayal.

They are the ones who will be forever stuck. They will agonize over the past events and those events will forever occupy the forefront of all their thoughts. They may be holding on to the betrayal as an avenue to punish their wayward spouse or to protect themselves while becoming self absorbed in their own self-pity and most do not even realize they are doing this. They come up with a million reasons why what happened to them has some special significance that makes their recovery outside of their control. But in the end, they are the ones who are selfish. They are the ones who have elevated their own needs so high that no one can satisfy them. If their spouse becomes a casualty, well “they brought it upon themselves”, or “they just have to put up with me”, is their attitude. That sure doesn’t sound like a very appealing road to me but still, I understand the allure.

When my wife asks me if I have forgiven her my typical response is, “I don’t know, do you feel like I have forgiven you? Am I acting like I have forgiven you?” I know that answers a question with a question but her response always seems to lead to some great and healing conversation. The real truth is that she doesn’t need that questioned answered as the best answer comes solely from our actions and quite frankly we have stopped asking it altogether.

RECOVERY KEY No. 4 (THE PAST)
The inability to separate past from the present always seems to be a huge issue and impediment to moving forward. Many betrayed spouses live their daily lives in the past while just as many wayward spouses cannot bear to acknowledge that past has any relevance at all. “How can I ever forget what you did to me” verses “Can’t we just move forward and forget what happened?” The one thing that both typically agree on is that they both regret those terrible deeds of the past and wished they never happened.

But I would say to both the betrayed and wayward alike, the past is a chapter of our life’s history and history is our GREATEST teacher. As you allow the past to become your teacher you will notice that as each day passes you and your spouse are building a new history of positive and loving experiences. That means that the betrayal loses its relevance as it slips further and further behind the pages of a new and better history. If you struggle with holding on to the past always ask yourself this question, “Who am I married to right now, right this instant?” To answer that question you will begin to look at your spouse’s performance record or their history. You start with the most recent history and then look further and further back until that history has no more relevance. In my case, I now have one solid year of Mrs. G’s history book that is filled to the top of nothing but kind actions and loving deeds. That history creates an expectation of what I can expect tomorrow and!
make the perfect introduction to the next Recovery Key.

RECOVERY KEY No. 5 (TRUST)
That brings us to the concept of “trust”. You say that you once had it but your spouse’s affair ruined it and now you can’t see how it will EVER return. Welcome to the party. The simple fact is that trust is the culmination of a consistent and expected behavior. A spouse’s affair breaks that bond of trust and that means that the betrayed has lost the assurance that a repeat performance won’t happen again. Heck, nobody wants to be married to anybody that they cannot trust. Who wants to be constantly looking over their shoulder, not me, not you? Yet, we all know that in a marriage you should have a reasonable expectation to trust your spouse. So, what do we do about this trust thing?

Most D-days are surrounded by a host of lies, omissions and half-truths with regard to the depth and events surrounding the wayward spouse’s affair. They just can’t seem to bring themselves to let it all out in just one sitting. So the betrayed gets spoon-fed the story bit by bit, each day reveling new surprises to a bewildered and betrayed spouse. At the end it is no wonder that the trust between husband and wife is blown to smithereens. In the days that follow every betrayed spouse views with skepticism just about every word that flows from the wayward spouses mouth.

So the reality is that most every affair ends with the BS having zero trust with the WS. From there, there is only one direction to go and that is up. How fast that happens depends on several factors but the most important is controlled by the ongoing behavior of the wayward spouse. If a wayward spouse shows the betrayed that they are consistently, every day reconnected in the marriage then the betrayed will come to expect that next day will be like the previous. If you both live your marriage with complete radical honesty then you will each develop an expectation of trust; if that is done long enough and consistent enough then trust begins to reestablish itself.

Like forgiveness, trust is result of the thing that you do during your recovery. It is not something you do to cause recovery and it all starts with “Radical Honesty” (thanks to Dr. Harley!). Can you trust an honest person? This rhetorical question says it all.

There are many other recovery keys most of them fully explained by the Harleys. My other personal favorites are:

TRANSPARENCY IN MARRIAGE: This refers to throwing individual privacy between spouses into the garbage can. It makes having an affair a virtual impossibility.

THE CONCEPT OF SAFETY: The wayward spouse’s greatest gift to recovery is to place their betrayed into a position of comfort with regard to the wayward’s ongoing behavior. It is a place where the betrayed knows that they are not in danger of any kind of repeat performance from the wayward.

THE FALLACY OF THE MINDREADER: It is very important to resist having an expectation that your spouse knows how you feel or should know how you feel. None of us are very good at reading minds so if you have something on yours then share it with your spouse, tell him or her and let them (and yourself) off the hook. If you do this you will bypass many a-hard evening.

LOVE IS AN ACTION: You want to be in love, you want your spouse to love you? If that is what you want then you must behave in that fashion. Do the things that lovers do. Actions not only speak louder than words but can actually cause you to “feel” in love. Remember the Harleys discussion on the Love Bank and making love deposits? Every time you do something kind, or considerate or loving for your spouse you are increasing the positive way that they feel about you. It is simple arithmetic and the result is a foregone conclusion, LOVE.

I still have some traveling left on my journey but I now feel comfortable that I will one day arrive on that sunny beach.

I hope that you find yourself reconnecting more each day with your loved one. I would have never believed that I could ever have recovered from happened to my wife and me. I assure each and everyone out there, if I can do it, you can do it!

Mr. G



Me 58 BS


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Loved your graphic! Merry Christmas to you.

your discussion of forgiving vs. trust is very near where i am. i love the next post on this site - about beginning to forgive and trust as a natural process of moving through recovery. somehow this makes sense to me - and i wont be searching so hard to find these two things.

i will never trust the OW in my town- but i would like to be in a place where i can see them in passing and feel no upset inside me. maybe it is selfish - but i want to forgive them for myself. to make me more whole and to have a happier life.

also - for my children to be able to move past the hurt of their father's affairs. i think they have moved much more quickly than me - with good reason!

anyway - i will get the ernest hemingway book and let you know what i thought.
your description of your brother - is probably the same as the OW who were with my FWH, and still see me around and say nothing.

about THE card- btw - it was not a christmas card - it was a hanukkah card - we took half your advise. i didnt feel the need to shred it and mail it back. my H, wrote a very short note -
"Your card is acknowledged. Please- no further personal contact in the future". and mailed it with his signature.

i had also asked him to write out in detail - a letter to me and to read it to me. this worked very well. i asked him to 1) explain specifically HIS actions that led this woman to feel she could mail him this card 2) Expain his feelings about his actions and 3) empathize with my feelings.

he did a great job and it was very healing for me to hear him read this letter.

he admitted to - having NO boandaries int he work place. this woman was in his office alone many times-s ometimes with the door open and sometimes with the door closed. they talked about their personal lives - their children, spouses, movies they had seen, vacations, etc. she thought he did a WONDERFUL job and fed his ego. he recommended her for a promotion which she got. he said he felt sick about his terrible behavior in the work place- where he was constantly trying to get everyone to LIKE him and feed his ego.
we then talked about - competent people NOT needing to kiss tha boss's [censored]. he disagreed .then we came to the conclusion that people who had to kiss up to the boss were either :
INCOMPETEN OR INSECURE. he agreed and he agreed that he surrounded himself wiht people who fed his ego.

anyway -w e are off next week together and hoping to have a night away from the kids and do more MB. i really hope Dr. harley's claim of never having a couple not fallin in love again after doing his home course is true, because i am definitely NOT in love with him now.

HAPPY NEW YEAR !!
LOOKING FORWARD TO A YEAR OF HEALING AND POSSIBILITY FOR ALL OF US!!
sf


BS- me 56; FWH-58
3 kids, DS 23,23 DD 14; Married: 34 years
D-Days: 7/11/07;/7/13/07;7/31/07
Unbelievably recovering- but in an up and down way.
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