Shock,
Thanks for the comments. Consistent how it goes all over the map in terms of time.

What got me thinking was that yesterday WW went and visited my mom and told her she had wanted out for 8 years. So it got me to thinking - is this still fog or should I simply concede...

Just wanted to update where things are at. WW is proceeding on D path. I have exposed to OMW, W's parents and my family. Some close friends know, in many cases because W has informed the W's.

Not sure how active A is because of OMW knowledge, but she and I have been communicating and both feel there is communication going on.

Just a little Christmas update... :wavingsanta:

W and k's have left for the IL's place. I leave for a solo holiday in AZ in a couple hours. Christmas morning was nice - somewhat pleasant. UNTIL W started about wanting to know the on-line p/w for some e-bills (gave those to her) and then how I paid other bills (ummm, from my account and no she was not getting the password for that). Then she wants me to take a pic of her an the k's to send to some of her friends (yuck). My pic taking skill is not great - don't think they turned out.

I will enjoy my trip - will miss my k's immensely - but it is time for me to do me stuff. W is still, I think, in shock that I would even go down by myself. I will also be drafting my reply to her D papers that are full of CR@P and factual inaccuracies (that always goes better after a couple glasses of Cab Merlot or something equally as yummy). She still wants me to move out and she wants primary custody. My L was kind of laughing with me as he served me.

AND I am also scripting what I am planning for Jan 2 - the day the k's hear the whole TRUTH - what W wants in D, the A, how their life will be different - ENOUGH SUGAR COATING!!!!!!!! I would certainly appreciate some thoughts here.

2009 will be different... still crazy, but different.

Merry Christmas all.

Quick update.

Heard from a good F friend that W has said she has told the K's about the A. I have my doubts what in fact she told them, if anything. She said she told her parents in July, but when I finally talked to them in early Dec, I learned this was NOT the case at all.

Anybody else had this experience?

Just wondering if anyone has some words of wisdom on what to do next? W has filed papers - I am responding (have to legally) but still do not want D.??

Just updating my sordid sitch. This is a long one to catch up...

Here are some journal entries:

Dec 30:
Update for today. Family back in same house (I went to AZ Dec 25 while W and k's went to IL's) except D11 who is at IL's. 5 minutes I walked in, was ambushed...

W: kids (D16 and S13) come here please. Need to have a family discussion about living arrangements. We cannot have all 5 of us living under same roof. Lost, what do you propose?

Me: well W, a little unprepared for this. SOrry but I have been preparing a response to your papers...

W: oh well you are late - had 30 days after filing to respond.

Me: no W, actually it is 30 days after serving, but whatever.

W: well what do you propose?

Me: W, what do you want to do? This is your decision.

Anyway, rather than the whole convo, here are the highlights (remember D16 and S13 are there):

* W called me a f"g [censored] and a SOB

* W wants to have her share of house now - needs it

* K's know of affair - but not sure yet what they know. Need to find that out. W called it a symptom.

* W wants someone who loves her, wants to be with her, wants her

* W made mistake and k's forgive her but I obv cannot and want to portray her as a sl*t (I responded that I never said any such thing and I cold forgive her).

* W wants to get an apartment and share time in house (we alternate in apartment).

* W asked kids of they want to live full time with me (no) or her (no)

* W said 50/50 time to which I said "gee that is funny cuz that is not what your papers said." Got into what was filed a bit.

* W playing nicey nice with k's

Anyway all along S13 is crying - doesn't want to be there. I tell him he can go and tell W this is between her and I. She says it is a "family decision" so he needs to be there and she tries to get him to uncover his eyes (hands over)by saying "look at me bud" - he says no continuously. D16 is saying "I don't care" to any question asked. They just want cr@p to be over.

I tell W throughout that this is her decision so the consequence is she should leave; I get the "you are just thinking of self, not kids". Also get more of the controlling manipulative stuff in response. Told W that she has helped to destroy 2 families; she then said I shouldn't have contacted omw.

Anyway, nothing decided and she wants to discuss further. I am firm - SHE NEEDS TO LEAVE. Thoughts?

After I had a one-on-one with D16. She was pretty distrught and cried hard (she didn't cry around W) - I encouraged D16 to cry, she needed to. We talked a bit about some stuff I had done and why (primarily $$). Talked a bit about the A - not much. I mentioned to her how I was comitted to my family but mom can make her own decisions and we may simply have to accept that. D16 said what family - you want this? I said no, of course not, I want it better. I mentioned that we knew we had stuff to work on last year but then the other guy came along - I agreed the A was a symptom but you had to deal with the symptom before you could cure the disease. I also mentioned that despite what is happening, I love her mom very much and would like nothing better to have pur family come through this.

I need to have another disc with D16 and S13 to see what they in fact do know. I will simply ask them that with the caveat that anything I say is not to paint W as a villain / bad person. Just want to get the truth out there so we all know it.

I must say it is looking bleaker and bleaker for this to work out...


Dec 31:
Here is what transpired. Follow up to yesterday.

* W calls k's in amd waits for me

* w asks what my proposal is

* I say I do not want to talk with k's here - they were devastated yesterday

* w says that the C said the k's should be be involved; says they want to here

* I say no, they don't need to hear this; w disagrees (of course)

* I say that given the process (legal) you have started, I have been advised by L not to discuss this; my response will be filed soon

* w says nothing is started legally (huh?) And she can stop it anytime- so what is my proposal?

* back and forth - I say nothing other than I cannot answer

* W says "see k's, on dad's schedule. Making you suffer more. If you were his prime concern this would be over by now. Lost, kids have made it quite clear they do not want to live like this anymore. Why do you want to be married?"

* W blamed me for all of this. I say it is her decision her consequences. She can leave if she wants to. She asks k's if that is what they want. PUT THEM RiGHT IN THE FRICKIN MIDDLE AGAIN. I did ask her to stop saying it was abusive to k's. W said again I haven't agreed with this cuz I don't believe in d or want a D - so I said why should I bend over backwards because you want this to happen.

* W is certainly deflecting guilt here.

More of the same continued. W said there is no way I could have k's best interests at heart. I challenged that, but was composed in front of k's.

W said I backed her into a corner by not meeting her half way so she had to go legal. I said now that you have started it is with the L. W talked about co-parenting, etc etc.

I remained relatively calm and didn't take a lot of crap - sttod up to her garbage defending myself in front of k's.

Last couple days:

* I take S13to rink. Turns out W is there doing volunteer stuff. W hasn't been home all day - house is a disaster. K's make their own supper. D16 calls me to leave rink and go to store to get her something to eat – she is not feeling well. I get home after game and all 3 kids have friends over. Play game with S13 and friend (RISK again). W finally home at 1 am and of course right away start dictating schedules.

* W has our kids sorting through stuff in basement as to what goes to what house!!!??? Taking matters in own hands again I see. Also find out W has once again talked S13 into going to rink with her even though he and I made plans last night about it. I talk to S13 after, tell him that I do not want to put him in the middle and say not to change anything for this time, but for next time, when we have plans, need to tell mom so and then me - I will not let her change plans if they are already made. After S13's game I go out to friends (the ones we were supposed to go to Hawaii with - they are back). 11:30 and kids are going to bed already anyway.

* This morning, coffee pot over flowing. I was getting stuff to clean it up. W came over and tried to kick me out of the way. I continued cleaning up - had it under control. When I went to get more paper towels, you cam in and took over. Too funny - I just smiled.

* More from this morning... S13 scored a goal yesterday - and the deal was he would get a new stick when he scored. I held up my end of the bargain. W got pi$$ed off - started yelling. "Is this a joint b'day present? Would have been nice to discuss. I was already planning something" (taking S13 to NHL game on his birthday which has NOT been discussed at all with me). I asked W to lower her voice (all kids were there) and she said no, the k's would see through the BS; W said that just because you have all the control for now with the money "We are still parents and need to discuss what happens with the kids." Like you have done this AT ALL in the last while. You say you can't afford anything like a $300 stick. I say that this was a deal S13 and I had a while back.


Any / all comments, thoughts, etc are welcome!

W took S14 (his B'day today) to another city for a hockey game (to watch tonight, not play). Before they left, here is the conversation with S14 listening (as recorded...):

W: (slightly inaudible) Can you go on the computer and transfer cash so S14 and I can have some.

Me: There is no cash to transfer.

(Inaudible portions - essentially W says there is cash, Lost says you wrote a $2000 cheque and cleared out the cash, account is in overdraft)

W: I told you I was writing a $2000 cheque to cover off my credit card for expenses when D16 and I were in LA. You were aware of that.

Me: and how much were you reimbursed for that?

W: Nothing - that is D16's and my expenses.

Me: and how much were you reimbursed for that?

W: Nothing - that is D16's and my expenses. Do you want to see my credit card? (inaudible portion) All I am saying is give me some money so that I can take us to other city and we can have something to eat.

Me: just use the credit card

W: no I am not putting it on my credit card.

Me: there is no cash

W: you have got thousands of dollars in your account, from your - your - in your bank account from your income and you job so don't give me that chit.

Me: there isn't thousands of dollars.

W: well there is money in your account so transfer it. We need some money to go to other city.

Me: you have an account as well.

W: Lost, this is family expenses

Me: and you can contribute to that as well

W: no I don't and I never have and I never will. You pay me for my job to stay at home. This is my full time job. What I do over and above that obviously is going to be my money. But my job currently is a stay at home mom which was mutually agreed upon by both of us. Therefore I am entitled to your income as well. So please put some money in that account so S14 and I can eat.

Me: If I had money to put ...

W: Lost, don't give me that chit. You know damn well how much money you make.

Me: Yeah I do.

W: I don't believe this

(rest inaudible due to background noise)

So - what could I have done better folks? Should I really care anymore? I know, a question that only I can answer.

:crosseyedcrazy:

Why are you still doing this to yourself for a year now?

LOL - I would have probably hung up at that point, rather than be subjected to any more babble.

A question: Your W did indicate that she, and you, consider her status as a SAHM as a "full-time job". Tell me - what salary did you agree to? Did the agreement include a moonlighting clause?

Not a great reason, but because she won't leave (at least not yet - I hear she has rented a house) I am stuck. Here for my kids, but means here with W as well.

Bad answer huh?

I feel for you, I really do but the fact here is that your wife is a tougher man than you.

You think you are there for the kids but you are providing a poor example.