No a threat that gets the police's attention is about death or bodily injury. Harrassment is another level....but I think that is what you were doing to the other man. Make sure your lawyer knows what you are doing before you do something like that again.

Yeah, I'm kicking myself for sending OM the email. I'll give a copy to my attorney of what I sent and received back so he knows what's going on.

Now, doing things like anonymously diming him to the IRS for under the table income, sending an anonymous letter to the OMW specifically suggesting she get tested for Chlamydia trachomatis and putting OM on porn catalog lists at his work address, those would all be bad.

heh heh heh....

I'm feeling a little depressed today because of my email goof-ups with OM. I'm just worried that WW may try to use it against me. Oh well, I can't change the past.

On a good note, I talked to WW's ex-H #1 and he said that he is for sure going to file something against WW as soon as he can get the money. He wants me to call him after I meet with my attorney this Monday to tell him how much it costs and what the attorney says about everything.

I filed a police report today against my WW for hitting me repeatedly last month. The police aren't going to press charges because of the length of time that has passed, but there is an official police report now.

I just want this to be over. I'm not looking forward to the fiasco this Sunday when I try to keep WW from taking my son away. I think all this combined with the Christmas season is weighing down on me. Everything will be alright.

erich,

Get yourself a book on father's rights. There's a couple of good ones out there.

But be aware that police reports don't matter. They're considered heresay.

There's a lot of misunderstandings about what matters and what doesn't in family court.

The best thing you can do is simply be a contrast to her instability.

I would also ask your attorney if she would represent the you and exH #1 together. Perhaps she can charge you a little more than her normal hourly rate for one person, but not as much as if you guys were separate.

I don't know if they would do something like this, but it's worth asking her. We're talking about one woman going up against two fathers and I think that both fathers resisting her moves would carry tremendous weight with a judge.

The biggest secret to all of this is to be calm and above the fray.

ALL you care about is your son, his wellbeing, and your time with him and the stability of his home.

Anything beyond that really doesn't matter in family court.

Get the book or books. They have great advice.

Don't punish yourself too much about the email you sent. Remember what I advised you via email.

My wife rented a U-haul truck today and with the help of a friend of her's and his brother, they loaded up all of her furniture and moved it to her apartment.

There are still odds and ends here that will need to go, but she is basically done moving out.

She will spend the night at her apartment tonight and come around my house before church some time tomorrow morning to check on our son who is staying the night at my house tonight.

WW has been very pleasant and cordial over the last few weeks except whenever I put my foot down about boundaries. She was very pleasant today too. I guess she's happy to be moving out and moving on.

I think right now WW must feel triumphant that she was able to so swiftly find a basically free apartment in our school system and is now independent of me and can pursue her OM as she sees fit without any interference from me.

I don't think she has any idea of how hard these next few months are going to be on her.

Tomorrow I will follow through with my plan to keep my son at our home while pursuing legal custody. Her first ex-H will shortly follow suit for his daughter. She will not receive any more financial support from me until court ordered. She will undoubtedly begin to re-accustom herself with the "joys" of living in subsidized housing, and her relationship with OM will die a slow death.

Why am I focusing my thoughts on her? Because she is my wife, and we've lived every day together for the last 3.5 years. She was the first thought on my mind every day even though our relationship was dysfunctional. She's the mother of my son. And now she is gone, out of our home, possibly forever.

I don't want drama in our lives. I certainly don't look forward to tomorrow and the months that will follow. But she's taken her stance, and I've taken mine, and there doesn't seem to be any compromise at this point so a conflict will inevitably ensue.

May whatever is best for our son be the final outcome of this is my sincere prayer.

Oddly, I feel a peace now that my WW is out of our home although I am sure I will be lonely without her. During the last few weeks, my feeling of love for her has diminished. I don't feel an inkling of the mournfulness and sadness I felt when I first realized that she no longer wanted to be with me and was seeing someone else.

By principle, I would still take up the opportunity to heal our marriage if she were willing because I feel that it is the right thing to do and that we could one day feel love for each other if we pursued the MB principles. I would love to be able to give our son the gift of having both of his parents in a loving marriage relationship. But right now, it seems like a far distant dream.

For now, I'm focused on my son and doing what I feel is best for him in the situation as it exists.

Thank you for everyone's encouragement, advice, and moral support. It has been so helpful to me and hopefully ultimately for my son.

Please pray for us.

You, sir, are an inspiration.

Lookie there, we're the same age too.

I think that the greatest chance for success actually comes from giving up hope for reconciliation and treating that as if it was a nice bonus versus the end goal.

There's only one goal for you at this point and that is the custody of your son.

Your W is lost. The only reason she'd return at this point is out of a need to do so for financial reasons and you don't want that.

She's being nice to you because she has the idea in her warped logic that by being nice she can make it pleasant enough to maintain a friendship with you. THAT is why she's being nice.

Trust me, there is little to no chance for friendship and it is the common warped idea of a WW. She's watched a bit too many movies where the exw and exh get along splendidly for the kids.

Bruce Willis and Demi Moore are the exception, not the rule.

There's lots of pain ahead of you. But the pain could be a lot less if you're not separated from you son.

Trust me on that.

So treat this as a welcome break and start focusing on you and your son.

That is basically what Plan B is, but your situation is too complex for a good plan B because you have a son.

Then again, if you have a willing intermediary, then Plan B may be the best thig to do now.

But nothing is set till you have a custody order in hand.

Just be forewarned that the legal process is glacially slow.

It is very, very slow. It will be weeks if not months before you have a hearing to determine custody.

Get yourself a book on Father's Rights. They'll spell out everything you need to know on there and tell you what to expect and how to act.

You're a man, so the deck is stacked against you. But that doesn't mean you can't win at this game. You just have to know how to change the odds and focusing your attention on you, not your ex, will win you many points.

You're likely to get further ahead by smearing your ex the least amount possible than you will by going after her in full force.

Trust me. I know.

I'm just 30 days away from a 50/50 arrangement after I gave my ex full physical custody. So I speak from experience. Focus on you and your son and bettering your life and your situation and custody will likely go your way. The only reason I don't think I have full custody is because I didn't fight things from the start.

You're in a different boat.

So concentrate on YOU not her.

Erich, prayers for you and your son. I am sorry this has happened, but under the circumstances this is best. The reason is because a) she was protected from the reality of her choices by living there carrying on her affair and b) her abusive treatment of you was wearing you down and killing your remaining love.

Now, she can see what the OM is really made of. He is a guy who has no character, no decency, who has no interest in meeting the needs you were meeting. [financial security]

After you get your son protected, my suggestion would be to go into a dark Plan B after she is in her apartment for 3 weeks. By then the novelty will have worn off and reality will start setting in. I would do a GREAT Plan A for the next 3 weeks and then we can help you set up Plan B in the most effective way.

I don't believe you should give up, Erich. She may come around in Plan B, and even though she has a history of this behavior, she CAN change if she chooses. You can't make her change, though, but I think you already know that.

Erich,

Just looking in on your sitch and trying to catch up. I may have uestions as things go along.

First off, what state do you live in? Is it a "fault" state?

Many similarities to what happened with you and me. And I can tell you that you are doing the right thing here.

Do whatever you can to get your son with you. Stave Harley told me once that the biggest help towards ending the affair is the kids.

So, get your legal ducks in a row. DO NOT talk about nor pursue divorce unless you are ready to divorce! Many states will let you go forward with the custody part without moving forward on the divorce.

Never threaten that which you arent ready to do! And when you are ready to divorce, just do it...dont tell her.

You are just in the beginning of things. So, hunker down, get smart and take care of your family. If you are a Christian, make sure you include your wife in your prayers!

Keep on keeping on. You will make it thru this!

MM,

Erich lives in Missouri, and Missouri is unfortunately a no-fault state. The only bonus that proving an affair would do for him is getting a 60/40 split of the marital assets due to marital misconduct.

The day today went very smoothly. There was no confrontation from WW.

Everything went as planned. I took care of my son this morning and took him to church from 1PM-4PM. After church we went to WW's sister's family's house and spent the rest of the afternoon there.

I called WW from their house. WW was at her apartment when I spoke to her on the phone. I told her that we needed to talk about the visitation schedule. She said she was only willing to give me every other weekend and Tuesday and Thursday afternoon. I told her that I needed to have that plus at least Tuesday and Thursday nights as well.

She wouldn't budge and said that no judge is going to give me more than that because WW is willing to be a stay at home mom and that our child needs the same stable home to leave from to school every day (her apartment).

I told her that we obviously disagree on whose home is more stable and so we would have to have a judge decide it. She agreed. I told her that I didn't feel comfortable letting our son leave my house with her until we have a written visitation agreement. She was surprisingly calm and unprovoked. She just said that I should take good care of our son.

She wanted to know where I'd be taking our son for the day hours when I have to work. I told it would either be her sister's house or some other church members who are willing to watch our son. She seemed ok with it.

This really unsettled me because I thought that she would act more upset. I couldn't read her at all. She was completely in control of her emotions and seemed confident that the judge would side with her in the end.

I felt comfortable enough to go ahead and go back home after having dinner with her sister's family. We got home as the two step-children were being dropped off at my house with my WW. WW assisted me in putting our son to bed. Then she left with her other two children.

What the heck? I don't know what to make of this at all. I was definitely not expecting her to go along with this. Is she THAT confident that she will win custody and the visitation that she suggested?

Apparently she is going to allow me to keep our son at my house until we have a formal visitation agreement. That's perplexing to me. We'll have to see if she continues on in this manner as more time passes.

I suppose this is a good thing because it allows me to set a precedence if that really matters and it allows me to spend lots of time with my son until something is in writing... Plus I'm not alienating my son from her because I'm not keeping him from her. She can visit any time she likes.

I'll meet with the attorney tomorrow and find out what he thinks about all of this and go ahead and get the legal separation with full custody and visitation plan filed.

Any ideas of what is going through WW's head? She feels VERY strongly that she should be our son's primary care giver and she is a very good care giver in every way except for the flippin' affair parts. Is she just giving in now? Or does she think she'll win points by being mature and non-confrontational? Or does she know something I don't know?

Thanks for all of your involvement and moral support!!!

I think that I have temporarily given up hope on recovery although I'm leaving it out there as a possibility by filing for legal separation instead of D.


My WW tries to be very mature when it comes to dealing with her exes. She understands that she will have to deal with her exes for many years and wants to get along for the sake of the children. I wouldn't say that she wants to be friends necessarily but I don't think she would be opposed to the idea.

I don't know if I could handle being friends with her after all that has transpired unless we were working on recovering our marriage.


I placed a few father's rights books on hold at the local library.


I'd be pretty happy with a 50/50 arrangement and I think I have a good chance of getting that. I'm filing for full custody to aim for the stars, but I think based on the odds, I'd feel pretty good about getting 50/50 time.

As far as smearing, I'll just present everything to my attorney and let him decide based on his experience what route to take to get custody. I'll do what I can to continue to be a stable parent for my son.

I have to agree with you. I feel like it is best too, given the circumstances. Thank you for your prayers!


This weekend I was basically a stick in the mud. I had so much running through my mind that I was like a zombie. I didn't do any Plan A this weekend. Now that the anxiety of my WW's move-out has passed, I think I can regroup and try to be a more pleasant person to be around and try to resurrect Plan A for the next three weeks.

I do feel more stressed than usual now that I am fully responsible for my sons care. I still need to maintain my employment, press forward with legal action, and care for my son's needs at home. I'll need to go shopping tomorrow to restock his diapers, milk, food, toiletries, etc since my WW didn't restock these things because she was planning on moving out with our son this weekend.


I'll pray for the strength to not give up. The most that I can say at this very moment is that I am willing to work on recovery if she shows any desire. I'll try to rekindle the energy to do more Plan A for the next three weeks before going to plan B.

Thanks for your encouragement!

Missouri. I forgot to ask my attorney if it's a "fault" state. Jim says it's not..


I'll have to read your thread to learn more about your sitch. I did glean the general time line based on what I read from your "Husbands and Wives Roles" thread. That thread is very awesome in my opinion. Thanks for sharing it.

I am definitely not filing for divorce and do not desire divorce. I am filing for legal separation though since I'm trying to get custody and visitation plan setup.


I always pray for my WW in all of my prayers. She needs all the help she can get. I even pray for OM, because the scriptures say to pray for our enemies. But I also sent him a couple of "mean" emails in a moment of weakness. Do you think I should apologize to him for that? I do feel kind of bad about doing it even though my overall intent was for good (to try to scare the guy away...)

I'm starting to hunker...

The door just opened to you in a big way, my friend.

You now have the opportunity to file for abandonment.

THAT is a big opening for you since she left the care of your son to you and moved out.

This does establish precedent and I can tell you that judges don't care about one parent's idea of stability over another's.

She has the false confidence of being a woman and has made a huge mistake right now by opening up precedent for you.

Don't be afraid of the responsibility of taking care of your son alone. I had the same fear when I was alone at first and felt a little overwhelmed at the start (my 3 kids, 2 in diapers).

You'll step up and you'll figure it out.

But this is a huge opening for you. You're now establishing precedent. You're establishing being a primary caretaker for your son.

You can now show the court that you can absolutely do it yourself.

BUT, I would seek a more permanent care arrangement for your son than the ad hoc setup you have now.

Get a daycare, an au pair, or a friend you can count on and pay (with a contract) to care for your son.

A daycare gives you the advantage of being an established place for child care and they usually have preschool programs to teach the kids things.

They're not cheap, but it's not so bad with only one kid to pay for.

Another option are state certified home daycares. These are daycares that are certified and inpsected by the state and are run by people in their homes. You can get a list of such caregivers from your local government office though a simple call.

They're usually cheaper than official daycares.

Don't let your wife's cool unnerve you. She may not have had a previous ex fight her for custody.

You're a different man and you have a whole group of people giving you advice and support.

But your wife just made a HUGE mistake that will be costly for her.

Filing abandonment is not the same as filing for divorce, to my knowledge.

But this is something which will work to your favor, not your detriment.

She's under the mistaken and arrogant notion that the judge will side with her because she's a female and because she was a stay at home mom. Hate to burst her bubble, but that's just not the case.

Most states obligate judges to determine who the better parent is for the child and are ordered to not have gender factor in and taken into consideration.

50/50 is a pretty common thing now. She will obviously have to work herself, so being a SAHM is no longer an argument.

Throw in the exH's willingness to help you and you're in pretty good shape.

BTW, I asked my attorney if she would take on two clients against the same woman (as a hypothetical question) and she said no. She says there's many complicated reasons.

But the exH could be a very powerful witness on your behalf.

Be warned, litigation is VERY expensive.

A lawyer will likely encourage your ex to settle for 50/50 or some sort of better arrangement for you.

Stick to your guns and go for it all.

File for abandonment now that she's moved out and left you with your son.

This is a MASSIVE and positive development for you.

I agree, your WW is a stupid and arrogant woman. She has jeopardized custody of her son for the freedom to continue her affair. Now that she has abondoned you, you are in a totally different position. If you find a permanent daycare, you now have the upper hand.

Eric, never apologize to the OM. Ever!

Next, a question: does she have an attorney? The reason I ask is that her calmness may be the result of either:

• Her attorney stating she will have no problem
• She believes because she is a woman she is entitled

In either case, it doesnt matter a whole lot...but I would like to know if she is seeing an attorney to understand what yo uare up against here.

An issue here could be the step-children and her ability to stay home. First, because the three children were being raised together, the judge might side with your son being with them at your wife's apartment. What may be of some help in this is that the step-children's father(s) get involved also and she ends up combatting several exes.

On her ability to stay home...you can combat that. But you MUST have a good daycare system, preferably in your home if possible. If the sister-in-law is willing to watch your son in your home, this would be the best!

You need to always be looking for the advantage. ALWAYS document EVERYTHING! Sit down every night and document what you did, what your son did, what your WW did and said. A journal such as this IS ADMISSABLE and will be very helpful to the judge in determining the right path when she falsely accuses you of things...and allows the judge to see your every move in regards to the kids.

Let me know if she has an attorney (or can afford one). That may change things a bit.

(TJ)

MM, so good to see you back on the boards again. You're a great source of advice and experience.

(/TJ)

E,

Listen very closely to the advice being given. It's very important. I also recommend keeping your journal by hand versus typing it out.

Here's the thing: These judges have seen everything under the sun.

They don't care that she cheated. It's the same story for them everyday and they hear it all the time. Sad to say that it doesn't matter.

What does matter is stability.

Yes, the judge may wish to keep all the kids together, BUT she did leave your son with you. THAT says a lot.

Abandonment is key here.

And even if you don't file abandonment you have established precedent of being the primary caretaker for your son.

Hard to argue that all the kids must stay together when she vouluntarily left him with you on her own free will.

A 50/50 deal with your son would appeal to me as a judge. This would keep a good relationship with you and keep your son's relationship with his siblings.

Now, that being said:

Your wife is fully capable of working unless she's disabled in some way.

Not working can be considered "voluntary impovrishment" on her part.

This is especially true if she has a degree and the court can use this when calculating CS.

Finally, people engaging in family court don't realize one thing which is very important. The overriding trump card that allows a judge a tremendous amount of leeway is what he/she considers to be "In the best interests of the child". This means that you can feel like you have all the greatest evidence in the world, but that if you give the judge a bad vibe or the impression that you're motivated by money, revenge, or anything other than love for your son and a desire to be a part of his life that you will be lumped along with a ton of men who go to family court simply because they don't want to pay child support and have little interest in their kids.

So become super dad now. It's fine line between being involved, however, and looking like you're out to prove you're super dad. It sounds to me like you're an already involved dad, so keep that up and simply step up the other things that matter such as medical care, having a good home for your son, etc.

Don't suddenly sign your son up for everything under the sun.

Remember that this is all about impression and you want to make a good one. Dress for court, control your anger (don't show it if at all possible) and be "above the fray".

Be a man of integrity and it will be seen and respected by the judge.

Be prepared for her attorney to try to get a rise out of you and show you to be an angry person. It's a standard tactic to portray you as the jilted husband out for revenge against your W.

It's a dirty, dirty arena.

So be above it.

The advice from MM and I is coming from 2 men who have just been through this process and did well in court.

The best advice I ever got from anyone was from my brother, who simply said, "be cool".

say wut?