Hello Everyone.

I've been reading this boards and have finally joined officially after being on this roller coaster for 3 months.
My story isn't all that different than others I have read so I will keep it as short as possible.
Married now for 16 years, 2 great kids 9 and 14. In October my wife finally revealed to me that there was a problem in our marriage and she had been struggling for a long time with it. Our marriage has intimacy problems, more closer to the point sexually related. She has told me that she no longer has the spark or desire for me and not sure she ever had it.
There is no other man involved, we have been over that time and time again and I have looked into it in many ways myself and I tend to believe her. The direction we are going there is no reason why she would not have told me by now anyway.

We are in counseling, at least she is. The counselor we are seeing is kinda big on individual sessions, which my wife is still going. I stopped going because it doesn't really help me to see this counselor 1 on 1. I'm not sure how it helps our marriage either.

It seems like a hopeless situation. If my wife never really had this 'sexual desire' and now she wants to go on with her life and see if she can find it I don't know what to say about that. It's been very hurtful and painful to me. I don't know how to make someone get a sexual desire back especially if they never had it.
She says I am a wonderful husband and I am attractive, yadda yadda and it isn't any of that.
We've gone through the holidays here for the sake of not spoiling Christmas for the kids and my daughter's birthday is next week but come January she is going to want to separate and that basically means I now have to leave my home and everything so she can see if this is something she really wants.

My problem isn't just that I am so hurt by this because I still love my wife but having gone through this now for the last few months I am starting to feel like maybe I should just let it happen and move on too.
But my other problem is I am not sure if this is some sort of mid-life crisis on the part of my wife and maybe things can turn around. She's 39 with a birthday in feb. and I just turned 40 last year.

Honestly I am scared to death. I own my own business which does ok but my wife makes a good income as well. I don't know how I will do on my own out there and I can't see going through some grueling divorce battle because of my kids, plus I'm a nice guy and I go with the flow as it is.

I have all of these questions. Some are, what do I do now? Do I go along with a separation? Or being that my wife has basically emotionally abandoned me do I file for divorce myself and get this pain over with?
I'm having a hard time stomaching the idea of my kids having some other man in their lives either.

I guess ultimately the reason I am here is because I am not really getting good advice in my personal life. No one can really tell you what to do either. Right now I am about a week away toward having to leave my house. Each day is harder and harder to get through knowing that is coming on me.
Any feedback is much appreciated.

Do not leave your home or let her take the kids.

Let there be consequences for her wanting to separate. Cut her off financially. Hold her responsible for half the costs of running the home. Including the mortgage.

She wants to separate, fine then she gets to leave the marital home. You need to stay to protect yourself if things come to divorce and custody battles.

I suspect an OM. You need to covertly search for one. Use keylogger on home computer. Place digital voice activated recorder in her car an home. Get real time GPS to hide in her car. Cheapest way is to use a cell phone plan that the monthly service cost covers the real time GPS tracking with out incuring addtional charges.

I suspected that as well and did all of the things you listed. I cannot find any evidence of any.
She goes to work and comes home. She doesn't stay out or any of that sort of stuff.
No phone bills point to usual activity. A voice recorder only ever picked up calls to relatives and in her emails she told relatives that she is not seeing anyone else.

According to the counselor, she has this 'desire' but she hasn't acted on it yet.

I guess I still have this nice guy mindset because I'm not looking to battle her for custody since I think kids should be with their Mom and I don't want to put my kids through that. And since I don't want my kids lives turned upside down I would leave them stay in their home as well.
I agree there should be a level of consequence, at least on her part. I have done nothing wrong and she has told me this. It seems a shame I have to lose my family over this.
Maybe in a separation period things could turn around? I just don't know.

As for cutting her off financially my wife makes more that I do.

What it boils down to is she is thinking she does not have this spark or sexual desire and now she has this conflict if she should keep going the way things are, which I don't think she can, or look elsewhere and see if she can find what she is looking for or needs.
It's like she's having an affair with an idea or illusion of finding something else. It's really odd. I would love to know there was another person involved. Maybe that would motivate me then and give me cause to just file for divorce now and get this nightmare over with.
As for not leaving the house, I know people trial separate all the time. Is leaving really that bad for the one who does the leaving? I mean, should I not try every possible option?

SC,

I know you're hurting right now...and angry, frustrated, confused...lots of stuff.

I want to ask you why you aren't going to the counseling to require of the counselor to help your marriage? To ask these very questions...to get some answers...to have joint sessions...because your wife is in a wayward state of mind.

She's justifying breaking a family apart based on one EN.

That's it.

Do you meet the rest of her ENs? Do you LB a lot? Have you really examined what you do and don't do?

None of which will stop someone who is bent on focusing on what she lacks rather than what she has in abundance.

Require MORE information...for this is going to turn your kids lives upside down...already has...no doubt. This will break apart your family, make you BOTH into part-time parents...and you need to go for custody to protect your kids as much as possible from someone who would focus on one thing and destroy a family for so little.

SF might be her number one EN...so work on all the others...because resentment, entitlement and lack of respect isn't something you can control.

Don't move out...do you really think it's in the best interest of your children to leave them with a mother who is focused on lack? Do you not see where she will focus on their lack, too? Think about it...this isn't the woman you've known for years...something different, almost alien?

She wants to break apart the family, that's her choice. You stand your ground...keep it best...let her know you'll fight for your marriage, have no doubt that this can be worked on, you're willing, desire very much to address this area within your control...and support her while she works on her own lack of desire.

For she lacks. See how that works?

YOU focus on the abundance...listing all the ways she meets your ENs...and figure out how much time you'd been spending together before her personality change...was it the 15 hours of Undivided Attention? Did you play together...or did you put work, kids, other commitments ahead of, unintentionally, your marriage?

Figure out if you were following the four rules of marriage...what SF represents to you...for it is an EN...and see if you were following the policy of radical honesty...do you regularly share your thoughts, feelings...your stuff...and promise to NOT do that which you aren't enthusiastic about...even separating.

If you choose to not do (the counseling, for example) because it won't do any good that you can see, then you're basing your choices on outcome...which is fantasy. Just like breaking apart your family because of one EN is fantasy. Don't do what she does...lead her to reality by staying in it. If you aren't willing to do everything within your control to save your marriage, then you won't be able to tell your kids that in six months or ten years, will you?

Either way, your personal recovery is solely in your hands. Choose wisely...you're half the marriage. Equal power.

LA

Wow, your post makes a lot of sense. Some things people have not said to me.

Let me address the emotional need thing first. Obviously I have not met a need she has since she is in the state but I do not know exactly what that need is. Intimacy has never been a very strong point in our marriage because my wife tends to be somewhat of a closed off quiet person.

As far as sex goes I always assumed I had a higher sex drive and she just had a lower one. But what she is telling me now is that she just doesn't have the 'desire' for me any longer. Suddenly the pet names stopped, no hugs, no hand holding, nothing.
It's what led me to believe there might be an affair of which I cannot find any evidence that included doing things I feel bad about.

As far as my point of view I am not going to sit here and claim to be an angel but I have not done anything to have brought the marriage to this degree. My wife even says I am a wonderful man etc. I even have cards from earlier in the year saying we have a 'great marriage' and our life will never die.

I stopped going to counseling for 1 on 1 sessions because I saw little point to it. I would just tell the guy what I was feeling and he would just basically listen. I didn't feel I was getting help and I felt my wife and I should be there together.

I don't LB (If I understand the term) at least I didn't until this whole matter came up.
My wife and I rarely fought. We bickered but we agreed on most things and all of our time was spent together as a family which is why this thing is coming so far out of left field.

I'm not opposed to the counseling at all, in fact I initiated it however I don't see much point in going all alone. I just felt my wife had some issues to work out and that maybe the counselor could help but all I see is her being led down the same road. I want a counselor that actually is focused on seeing the marriage through, not helping someone decide what they want.

I've pushed for more info. The only other area I have really lacked, at least in her mind is 7 years ago I changed jobs and started my own business. I actually make more now than I did then but she makes a lot more than I do and does not see a business as something that brings security. She grew up in a single parent home and her mother was not always employed which I think she associates that security and being poor with love somehow.

My wife tends to builds walls with people and now she has one with me and cannot even get close. Since this started I am sure I have made all of the mistakes, ranting and raving etc because as you said I am hurting and all of those feelings.

But you have stated something extremely critical in your post regarding a mother who is focused on lack and breaking the family apart over that. But when she says she may have never had this desire, do I believe her? I mean after 20 years together, two kids etc. I feel like she is rewriting history and her EN are a result of her own inability to get close to people.

And you are right, she is behaving differently, at least toward me like she has to totally cut me off. She's still normal acting in other aspects of her life such as work and things. I mean, the hurt she must be having because of her feelings must be affecting her too.

But I come back to the separation factor. If she wants this I stand my ground and state that I am not leaving? If push comes to shove I guess she takes the kids and heads off to somewhere.

If she pushes for a separation do I try that to see if that works or stand my ground? Like you said, I need to be able to say years from now I tried everything.

In any case, thank you for the reply you really have given me more to go on.


As far as emotional needs, I can't say she has always met mine either but I'm not looking to break up my family over it and now I have emotional needs building that I would like met too.

What do you know about your W's workplace? Do you know her co-workers? It sounds very much like a possible one side EA. Like she has a crush on someone and can't "act" on it until she is free of the marriage.

faithful,

It's possible. I have been over and over this with her. I know people deny things but she is adamant it is nothing like that. The counselor told me he doesn't believe so either that she basically has this 'desire'.
I've also personally seen emails she has sent to relatives that there is no one else. I guess she could be 'looking' but I'm not sure how knowing that really helps.
If she is having an EA I am still stuck with the prospect I have a marriage about to end and I either need to know what I can do at this point, if I should end it, what i should fight for, such as custody etc.
I'm not trying to pat myself on the back or anything but I really am a nice guy, I am the type I would walk away from everything and have nothing if I thought it was the right thing.

That's all I really want to do is what is the right thing. I believe fixing the marriage is the right thing but I don't have the complete control over that, I can only do things on my end.

Like loving brought up, do I trust a woman who is willing to break up a family because an emotional/sexual need isn't or was not met? If things break down further do I fight for custody of my kids?

I guess I am in such a confused state I really need someone to say "Here is what you need to do" but I know that isn't realistic. But I don't want my marriage to end, I still love my wife. I want my family and home to stay intact and I am willing to do whatever I need to make it work.


My wife says this has been how she has been feeling for a long time maybe up to 2 years and she has 'tried'. I don't know how a person tries without talking about it to anyone else, I really don't.

But I suppose I should focus on where we are now. I'm still in the house. My wife is still seeing the counselor, albeit 1 on 1 on the suggestion of the counselor and we are trying to eek by until January after the holidays and my daughter's birthday before coming to a conclusion on the separation factor.

"I even have cards from earlier in the year saying we have a 'great marriage' and our life will never die."

Sorry, friend, I suspect an emotional affair, probably with someone at work.

If it is not an affair, I'll eat my hat. Please don't leave your home. You need to fight for your family. People that separate end up divorced.

That exactly what leads me to believe something is up, BUT I have no proof of that despite my best efforts to find out.
Maybe I should proceed as if there is an affair anyway? I mean, she has a desire to find something other than me.

This leads me to the same dilemma as before. Where do I go from here? Do I file for divorce and go for everything or do I be Mr. nice guy, or is there no such thing in divorce?

Faithful,

when you say a 'one sided EA' does that mean a person would have like a crush on the other and the other does not know it?
So when you ask if there is anyone else and they say there isn't they are being honest because what takes place in their mind?

Proceed as if there is an emotional affair. Don't move out of your home. Stay in Plan A.

SC,

How old are your children?

Why would you let you W leave and take the children?

She wants this, you don't. Are you involved in the kid's activities? Are you close to your children?

Just need more info.

Have you read "Fall in Love, Stay in Love"? Or "His Needs, Her Needs"?

Have you read up on this site about plan A? Do you know what your W's EN's are?

Sorry for all the questions. I highly recommend counseling with the Harley's for your situation. If you have been paying for counseling you might as well give it a go.

You don't want to disrupt the children's lives anymore than you have to. I would stay at the marital home and keep the kids.

If she wants to go find the greener grass, let her do it on her own. It just sounds like at least an EA is going on, that is pretty well hidden. Just my VHO.

Best of luck, I am sorry for your difficulties.

Love in Christ,
Miss M

Miss M,

My daughter is 9 and my son is 14. I spend much more time with them than my wife. I'm VERY close with them. I don't want to spend minutes away from them let alone days and certainly don't want some other dude spending time with them.

Just a little backround on how I have more time with them, 7 years ago I lost my job as my industry changed due to technology.
I started my own carpet cleaning business (hence my user name) and I do good with it but my wife has been in banking and has always done well. She makes more than me and has a lot more responsibilities.

As a result my job is more flexible so I rotate my appointments around the kids schedule. I drop off and pick up my daughter from school, I take her to girl scouts, etc etc.

I don't believe my wife would leave and take the children. She automatically assumes that kids should be with their Mother. But in many ways I have been their mother.
My wife basically wants me to leave the house for a separation trial and then who knows.

I think she would leave me with the house if I pushed the issue but what good will an empty house be? How do you 'stop' a person from taking your children if it comes to that? Do I really put my children through a custody battle?

I haven't read all of that material but I will as time permits.

Thank you for your position. From your sig it appears you are a Christian and that is definitely the kind of perspective I need as well.

SC,

There is nothing wrong with your job, you are doing okay and have provided the children with a parent in the home more often than 2 people working rigid schedules.

Is Financial Support an important need for your spouse?

Your home would not be empty, you would still be providing a stable environment for your kids. You would be there, so would your children. Since you are the primary caregiver it just does not make sense for you to leave.

If your wife wants to separate, let her be the one to leave. Why should you suffer and be away from your children when you have been the main parent for them? Don't you think it would hurt them more if you were the one to leave? They need you and depend on you!

I urge you to stay home, let your wife leave if she wants to.

Try not to lovebust, or make her angry. Don't speak to her unless you have a clear mind and a calm heart. Please do NOT roll over and let her take your kids and home from you.

Have you read the materials here, or gotten any books?

I can tell you are hurt beyond belief and love your wife enough to give her the house and kids, but you have to be logical and practical. It makes so much more sense for you to stay in the home, as you can provide better care and emotional support for your children. That is what you have been doing for quite some time after all.

I believe you will find out in a hurry what is going on if your wife leaves and you separate.

God Bless, please keep posting, you will get a lot of help here, as we all want to have a great marriage.

I know you want to build your marriage, so please, get more information on how to save your marriage from this site, and I highly recommend the books I asked if you had read in my previous post.

Best wishes, SC! You are WORTHY!!!

Love in Christ,
Miss M

Miss M,

My wife has always been an overly responsible worker and she grew up in a home where there wasn't always enough to eat. When i met her she had 10 dollars to her name. I think she has over compensated for that through hard work and over the years has seen me in my own business and possibly lost some sort of respect for me.
Financial security is probably what she needed, not so much money but when you have your own business, to her it doesn't seem like a real job.
This probably opened up a crack between us.

I agree with you that I should let her be the one to walk I just see that as causing more tension and driving us further apart. I also question why I should not divorce her because she no longer has a sexual desire yet wants to find it elsewhere. Even if we rebuild I will have the nagging question if this could happen again.

And where will our intimacy return to? What period of time since sex has not been a strong suit for us over the years. My wife rarely seemed comfortable in that area and maybe it's like she said, she never really had that desire. Now it's so bad she cannot even hold her hand.

Oddly we still are watching Tv and eating meals together. Earlier I fell asleep on the couch and woke up to find her covering me with a blanket.

As to the resources here I have read quite a bit. I own one of those electronic book things from Amazon and have downloaded everything I can get my hands on.

Unfortunately I think I have greatly affected the love busting thing over the last 2 months by having outbursts. At first my wife talked separation and yesterday she was talking about skipping that and possibly divorcing but we had a nice calm talk and she seemed to back peddle on the whole divorce thing.

Do not let the WW intimidate you by fear to placate her. Do not leave the house. You are not the one having an affair. You leaving the house will not stop her from banging the OM. You leaving the house mostly will cause you not to get custody, and very little in visitation. You leave the house the only thing that will happen is you will be homeless, not be able to see your kids every day and tuck them in at night, and your WW will bring in the OM into your bed to bang him because she manipulated you to be a doormat and walked all over you.

"As to the resources here I have read quite a bit. I own one of those electronic book things from Amazon and have downloaded everything I can get my hands on."

Reading and taking action are not the same.

What action are you suggesting?
It's not like I haven't tried to implement some of the things I have read.

Yes, that is exactly what I mean. There is something wrong here, do not trust her motives. Do not leave your home.