Thank you for your response. I had hoped that my query would be off-base and I’m glad that you think it is. My guess is that he still loves his family. Perhaps he is principled and maintains a curtain of pride that is preventing him from rejoining the marriage. Or perhaps it is as others might have suggested, he is in an affair himself. It is hard to tell from this distance.

The best approach to deal with your dilemma is to ask him. Simply ask him for the answers to the questions you have. You are asking us but the best person to ask is him. Confront him with ALL your questions. You might be surprised at the answers. Ask him.

Will he entertain the idea of a marriage counselor?

Mr. G

Angie hi, I am posting to you because you seem to be in a place where you can recieve info without being hurt or offended.

The affair ended in Dec 2006 according to you.
He believed you it had ended earlier than that.
What has your husband got to PROVE it really did end now?

I do not believe 2years is plenty of time to overcome the deepest betrayal any man or woman can be bludgeoned by.

I do admire your eagerness to participate in your marriage now.

If I were in your husbands shoes I'd be very cautious & certainly distrusting of you at this point. & wonder WHY you're keen now, & not when he needed you to be.

It is very hard to lay down & believe everthing that you say as real after falling so deeply into believing all your lies.

Your husband is still with you because he actually DOES LOVE YOU, something has changed as you say.

What was it that set you both apart? After a period of 'false' intamcy.

I wonder does he doubt your sincerity, your love for him?
Did your husband discover further deceptions?
Did he realise that he is still at risk of being hurt by you?
Did he notice that you are not doing everything in your power to protect your marriage at this point?

There are a load of questions that he has unasked & unanswered.

This is a mess you created for him & your family.

None of us are trained in how to handle it.

I ask you to genuinely reflect:
Why should he trust you?
What are you doing & saying to prove he is No.1 in your life?
Are you Loving him without expectation?

He is in withdrawal.
Why???? Is it from HURT or an OP???

EXITING WITH PHONE TO TALK NOT GOOD - DECEPTION - WHY?

Will you share your thoughts with him without bombarding him with your needs, fears or insecurities? But building him up to believe in your absolute desire for His welfare & happiness?

Can you do this without Love Busting??

I know I have a different perspective to others who have posted to you, and that is ok. It is only a different perspective, take what you wish and/or leave what you wish.

I do admire your determination at this point, well done in working on yourself.

Best wishes

A revenge affair is a definite possibility. My FWW worries about me doing that, as much as I worry about her breaking NC again. As a result, we both agreed to full openess and disclosure. She has full access to my cellphone and email as I do to hers. We both keep our cellphones on us, and let the other know where where we are when away from home. We both agree not to complain when the other calls to check up and confirm where we are.

Your BH's sudden secretiveness is, frankly, worrisome.

There are several circumstances in your situation that probably have contributed to the harder reconciliation you're experiencing.


Knowing this is painful for the BS, and decreases the liklihood of reconciliation. In the BS's mind, but for the grace of that troll, you'd still be in the A. The BS feels like little more than the consolation prize, that you came back to him only because you didn't have any better prospect (at least for now). Thus, the BS may believe another A is much more likely.



Multiple D-days are also more painful, and significantly decrease the liklihood of reconciliation. To you, it was one affair. To him, it was two. He was ready to forgive and reconcile after the first assumed D-day. But, after the second D-day, the old expression instantly comes to mind, "Fool me once, shame on you, fool my twice, shame on me." After the 2nd D-day, he feels like a fool for trusting you the first time, and also like you're a serial cheater, despite your perception of the affair. In addition, the lies you no doubt told him between the two d-days about the A being over aren't sitting very well, either.

I had multiple ddays with my FWW, and it was a tough pill to swallow - I came within a hair of walking. To add to that the knowledge that the OM was the one to end the A may be too much to swallow. Good luck.

Thanks Amazin, Aussie, Mr.G, Donal, Galoot and everyone else for your replies.
I'll try to answer everyones question on this post.
Let me say first that I do not work with OM, I quit after my H found out of the A. Also, OM worked in Mich., I live in TX. so we're thousands of miles apart from each other.
Let me give you some dates or timeline of the A.

Nov. 2005--A started....company messenger, personal e-mail, phone calls, text messages.
Jan. 2006--I boarded a plane and went to see OM
March.2006-He begins snooping on me and finds phone calls.
May. 2006--"Someone" from work e-mails my H and sends him messenger conversations from me and OM. He also had the e-mail addresses and passwords. I stopped all contact with OM.
June 2006--I went to my mom's for summer vacation.
July 2006--Me and Om started communicating via e-mail, phone calls.
August 2006--I went back to my house and my H. No contact with OM
November 2006--E-mails again back and forth. My H was still snooping.
Dec 1,2006--Om dumps me and we establish NC.
Dec 12-2006-- H discoveres the last e-mail where OM is dumping me.

I think he is sure that I we do not have contact, I think that his issue is this what Galoot is saying here.


He says (he told me about a year ago) that he feels like I am there with him because I had no choice. He says that I said it on the e-mail.....that is not true.
He assumed I had said that, or he wants to believe that. I am 100 % sure that I did not say that. I deledted everything that had to do with OM....so I can not go back to read it and prove him that he is wrong.
I deleted EVERYTHING, threw away cd's, clothes....I mean EVERTHING that reminded me the OM.
I think this is a big issue: I think he is holding to all those e-mails.....he once told me that those e-mails were the ones reminding him of what he needed to do.
I told him that he was just hurting himself with those. He says he is MAKING himself act like that.
I have asked him if he is having an affair and he says "no, I am very afraid of STD's, I wouldn't go around sleeping with anybody". My sister asked him as well....he said the same thing.


I think because he has not asked any questions, of course he doubts my sincerity. He has not let all his emotions out. He has not been to any C or spoken to anybody in all of this period of time. To him the hurt is pretty much like D-day....(I think)
He did not discover any further deception, I am not sure if he still has the keylogger installed in my pc, to tell you the truth I hope it is installed...that way he'll know that I am sincere and that I do truely am remorseful and repentant.
He is afraid to let me into his heart and that I would do this again....I know he has every right to...but if only he could see into my heart, he would know that I rather DIE that to do this again ever!! I am so sorry for all the hurt that I caused him. I am so sorry that I took him for granted, that I broke my marriage vows.....


To tell you the truth I do not know. I will work on this....your questions will make me analize my self, thank you for bringing this up.


Let me be sincere on this....No, I haven't been able to do this, can somebody tell me how to do this?

Thanks again for your replies

Angies

Thanks for the timeline. This is simpler than I thought. Here is what I am thinking,

Your husband feels he is the winner by default. He is fearful that the OM will one day pick up the phone and you will run to him. He will not recommit to the marriage until he is sure that your commitment to him is genuine. To him, it appears that the ONLY reason you are not with this OM is that the OM rejected you. He likely feels that you have come back to him to soothe your damaged ego at his expense. He may even feel certain that you will stray again. You have more work to do.

Other posters are seeing the same thing. Get on board and check to surface the truth. You should perhaps address this potential issue to insure that it does not remain a roadblock to your recovery.

Mr. G

Hi Angie sorry for leaving you hanging without a response.

I do believe you. I do believe you genuinely love your husband & want to help him heal.

Those emails are constant weights over BOTH of you.
They serve NO good at this point.
They Hurt BOTH of you individually & your marriage.
Neither one of you needs them at them it's like constantly picking of a scab from a healing wound to see how it's doing & recreating the wound again.

I don't know how you can get this message accross lovingly to your husband, that holding onto any remnants of the bad past keeps you there, when you want to enjoy him today as he is, right now.

My first gut reaction was to suggest you simply tell him straight out you love him & want him, that you do respect him. - The thing is he may not respond (or believe or he may be going awol himself)at this moment. You also show him you love him in a way that he perceives as unique & special just for him.

With regard removing love busters please look at the top of the page & read through all the basic concepts they are fantastic for direction. Basically you do and say nothing that will hurt your spouse. These are actually changes for personal growth.

Please take a look at this thread
The Recovery Guide for Wayward Wives
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1448914&fpart=1

It is from a woman called Dorry.
I could be wrong but I feel that doing a No Contact letter 2years later would be hazardous & only invite trouble back.

As I read it I was thinking perhaps you might scroll down to item 7 & read on from there.

I haven't read Dorry's story yet though I imagine it will be inspirational.

Currently looking at Mortarman's 'Roles' thread
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1379231&fpart=1
Deeply spiritual.

Best wishes

You can achieve this.

Mr G.



I agree with everything you're saying...I am willing to do whatever it takes for him to heal....to prove that I am 100% committed to our M....I just don't know what to do!!



Thank you Donal...you don't know how much this means to me....at last somebody other than my family and close friends believes that I am honest and repentant...thank you.



I know!!!! That's why I deleted EVERYTHING from the OM...I have told him that he is not going to be able to heal if he doesn't delete ALL the e-mails he has from OM.....he said I was just protecting myself and that I was telling him that because that benefited me. He is very stubborn and doesn't understand!!!
I even have thought about talking to somebody that knows how to hack e-mail accounts....just to delete everything....but I can't and I won't!!! I am afraid!!!

I will read the information you are giving me....thank you for your help!!

I know I can achieve this....it's just that sometimes it seems like I am fighting for this and never see anything different. Maybe I need to do something different.

Thanks,

Angie

I read the timeline and I agree with Mr Goodstuff... he probably feels the 'winner' by default ... "oh lucky me" is the sort of thing going through his mind. It sticks out like a sore thumb!!

I feel you need to read up on the basics here on MB if you haven't already .. get the book SAA (Surviving An Affair) .. and almost start over here.

I would suggest he is with you because he feels he 'has' to be ... duty ... obligation to kids etc etc ...these are emotional responses and they can change to positive ones.. but you need to work on it using MB ..
if you can get an appointment for phone counselling with one of the Harleys .... they will have some real solid advice based on experience of ways to engage your H.

I think you REALLY need the professionals here as its been the same situation for a long time. Dr Harley from the comments others have made who have used his service say he is quite good at getting spouses who won't engage into listening .... nothing can be promised though.

But frankly what do you have to loose? I'd make a guess and say it can only get worse not better if things continue as they are.

I would URGE you to consider this option as a matter of urgency ... make a phone call.

click on the link below

Contact details

Aussie,
I already read all the basics here as well as SAA and gave it to him to read....I think he only read half of it.
I bought HNHN also.


I hadn't really thought about this possibility. I will try it. (once I get the money to do it LOL).

Does anybody has advice on little and small(or big) but important changes I can do, so that he will start seeing that I am with him because of him....not because I had no other choice.
Like I said on my first post, I am quitting school and of course I won't have do my internship either. This keeps me away from home and my family for every single evening.

Also I have a question and need advice....in 2 weeks when I am ready to quit school...Do ya'll think I need to tell him that I am going to do it because I want to spend time with him and my kids?....or do I just tell him that it's because I want to spend time with my family?
I know this decision is going to throw him off!!!! He knows that this was very important for me. But not more than my M.

Thanks for everything!!

Angie

I know you are saying that G-d told you to stop going to school, but I think you should use POJA with your H regarding this decision. I do not think it is a good idea for you to just tell him that you are doing this.

I can understand that it is taking a long time for him to get over your affair. You started back up with your OM more than once after your H thought you had re-committed to your M--right?

I think it is good that you are looking for ways to help him heal. What are his top emotional needs?

Angie,

The biggest changes you can make wont matter as much as TIME! These folks have been giving great advice. But I want to caution you that for the BS, it takes time to overcome this. I know!!

Dr. Harley says that the BS is the biggest threat to recovery, as you are finding out. I found myself once recovery had started in earnest, with a wife ready and willing to move forward. She was happy again and wanting to move on.

But I found myself increasingly depressed, increasingly doubting my decisions. I became quiet, and pulled back some. I hadnt expected that...but I probably should have because Dr. Harley has written extensively about it.

The fact that you are back because the OM dumped you does not help his situation either.

But, the issue involved is TIME. I have heard that it takes 2 to 3 times the length of the affair for the BS to begin to leave it behind. In my experience, I would say that is close to truth.

You need to just keep being the wife you should be and are called to be. Dont pressure him. Just communicate and keep doing what you are supposed to do.

If you trust in the Lord and do what He has aked of you (as outlined in the link I have below), then He will take care and heal your husband.

Unfortunately, this will take time. But as Steve Harley told me once...each day that we continue in recovery puts it all a little further in the rearview mirror.

He's obviously hurt and doesn't trust you.

Here's the reality which I will share with you from personal experience: There is no solid timeline to grieve.

The worst thing you can possibly say is, "it's been two years. Why aren't you over it?"

You weren't the one that was violated.

You weren't the one betrayed.

Hearing something like that is enraging to a BS. How long does it take to get over a betrayal? The loss of trust? The loss of innocense?

That's not a timeline to be dicated by you. It's his burden to bear.

But how can you help?

You can help by simply apologizing when you see him hurting and reminding him you're there for him.

Sincere ownership on your part about the betrayal is a big step in healing for the betrayed.

Patience, love without expectations, and understanding are your greatest possible contributions.

In other words, Plan A. You can Plan A a BS. And you do it without expectations. It will take time, but he'll come around.

I can see how enraging it could be a for BS to re-engage in a marriage after a betrayal. The worry of being hurt again is always in the back of your mind.

Then there's all the stages of grief and the worst one is anger. Anger is ugly. There's things that trigger it. You have to ride out the waves and understand what it is and simply acknowledge that he has a right to be angry.

But steady, undemanding, unrelenting Plan A love is what I would want from a WW who wanted to earn the F.

But your situation also has red flags which concern me that he could be in a RA. So snoop accordingly.

Wait a minute, this isn't true. What I said is that he "assumed" that because of that stupid e-mail.

After OM broke everything up,I was ABSOLUTELY sure that I wasn't going back to my H, I even told my sister this,I was even looking for rentals cuz I was going to move out. I was feeling just like him, didn't want to work on the marriage, did not see me with him at all.

What happenned after this?? I don't know.I remember that I was an emotional wreck and at that time I "remembered" that I once was a child of God, I once had a relationship with Christ. I decided to go to church that day, while going down a road I started crying and told him to forgive me. I completely surrendered to HIM, I told him that I knew it was wrong to be thinking about giving up on my M.
I asked him to please do something for my M, but I also told him that he had to start with me cuz I did not want to work on my M either, and that I did not know if I felt something from my H.

He did it that night at church. It was only a few days after the A had ended, my Lord did it. How? I have no idea.
I had NO withdrawal symptoms, NONE whatsoever. It was like if he had never existed.(of course for me not for my H) I never missed him.

I went back to my M and to my H because the Lord changed my heart that night not because I had no other choice. There's always the choice of leaving if one chooses to. He knows that I am not afraid to be alone. I am with him because I LOVE HIM.

I am not sure if you are going to believe what I am writing but God knows that I am saying the truth!!
I sent him an e-mail a little bit over a year ago telling him everything that I have said in this particular post, but of course, he didn't believe me (he is not Christian)

God let me hit rock bottom then he came to my help...I know he'll do it for my H as well.

Angie

Have you discussed this with your spouse?

If not it seems like You would be making UNILATERAL DECISIONS for BOTH of your futures without considering him!!!!!!

If so, it is completely DISrespectful of you to make such a decision without first discussing it openly (be willing to hear his opinion/feelings on it).

And actually coming to a common, happy, doable, solution.

Another Lovebuster: -

Angie until you actually STOP HURTING him, he can NOT see you as loving him! - under any circumstances!

How to overcome your lovebusters
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5505_qa.html

Please read every single aspect of that with as you say an open mind, in place of spouse with issues imagine it is your own spouse who has wrote the problem to Harley.

Take direction from those pages in LB - they are precisely what you requested as guidance.


Why do you really want to quit your study/internship??
Honestly if you were in a very smooth easy going relationship right now would you continue on your programme of study?
Are you using your relationship as an excuse to bail?

Look at ALL your possibilities, cutting back hours etc.
Plan for your time together to be fun.

You do need to get the life/work balance.

ALso major question unanswered yet? Do you actually work in same place as om?

Oh btw.... please stop trying to educate him!

Guide him, show him, let him see, ASK HIM for help/opinion/input but please do not tell him what to do.

You are his wife, his lover, his friend, not his teacher or mother.

Well, if you are going to follow the MB plan, you need to POJA it with him. I would talk to him about quitting school to spend more time with him, and see what he says.

For YOU that's the truth .....


for YOUR H its because you were dumped.... that's HIS truth

His perception of the matter is ALL that matters here ..... he WILL not believe you right now so you need to behave as if his perception is 100% right.

remember what I said about how he trusts you? He only thinks you lied to him once ... when you speak.

I still think you need some professional advice from the Harleys here ...... even if they tell you give him time you would know you are doing the best you can.

MM, I've never heard that, that is interesting.

What are you counting from? My WW probably had a year of EA, then five months of sporadic PA.

I was clueless, so it wasn't like I had a year of emotional hurt and need three to get over it.

what do you think is the metric with me?

Angie forgot to say ...

POJA the school thing. Maybe get a year off first ... but at the least find out what he thinks about it. Sometimes the things WE - the XWS - think bothers our BS is nowhere near the mark.

If he won't engage in the discussion perhaps look at taking the year off only and put that time into the M and your H and family. You can always withdraw fully if you can POJA it fully later on.