My wife of five years is someone that I just cannot keep happy.
At each stage of our relationship she would keep telling me that when we get over whatever phase were going through (College, Career,Baby things) that she will be happy but every time more things come up related to the previous things and she is unhappy again.

To start off we both got married to each other after knowing each other for a few years and for me it was the very first relationship I had ever been in at all, I was 23 when we got married.

When we were married I had just finished college and she was half way through, about four months later we decided to have a baby even though she was in college because she had health problems that only get worse over time, I know this sounds crezy but we had the resources to pull it off such as owning free and clear our own home and relatives who were willing to help babysit without charging a fortune.
After she gets pregnant she decides the whole thing was a mistake and blames it all on me(years later I would disagree if she still loved me becaused her health is still slowly going downhill as predicted).
After she graduates she spends 9 months finding a job telling me the whole time that when she does she will be happy and all will be well (just like she was going to be happy after she graduated, had the baby blah blah blah).
I then sell my house for less then its worth to a relative(perhaps a big mistake).
After we move its like a bomb explodes she cannot stop being critical of my every move and word I say, she never touches me and treats me like I am some sort of intruder if I lay a hair on her.
So after a few conversations later she tells me that she never forgives me for getting her pregnant and she demands that I get a good job making at least $20.00 per hour (its not that I do not work its that I do not make enough for her) which is nearly impossible because I have spent years looking for work in my field with no success(its just far to competitive field to make things practical especially when you live in a small town and cannot move accross the country)
Thats the two main things on the list, below that are a large list of small things that she will never forgive me because one thing I have learned about her is that she NEVER forgives and NEVER forgets anything regardless of how small.
Oh and of course she is lavishly spending all that money we got from the sale of my home on clothes, TVs, Excersise equipment you only find in a gym, expensive food ($30 pie anyone) and drink so at the time of this post she has spent almost all of it on her shopping spree, I of course have no say in all of this because In another attempt to make her happy I gave her complete control of everything years ago.
As for everything else I do not drink, smoke do drugs, cheating is completely out of the equation, I do not make friends that I hang out with on the weekend because my dream in life was to be a family man who comes home from work and spends the whole day with his family, I do not yell during an "Arguement" but just sit there and try to listen then do my best to provide feedback, I never try to Criticize her or belittle her in anyway(I am a relatively quiet guy that likes to keep things "Smooth" if you get my drift), she spends almost no time with our baby (maybe one hour a week of watching kids DVDs) and when I asked her once why she told me it was because the baby was quote "my idea" and so I should be the one taking care of her, in fact if I ask her to watch her for just a few minutes to take out the trash its a big deal and "you better be quick".
(strangley enough she wants full custody of the kid in the event of divorce as a form of payback and because she clames to love the child even though she spends no time with her, she says the judge will grant custody because I do not own a home anymore and because she has the $20.00 per hour career and she is probably right)
On the other hand she is really mean to me and monitors me like a hawk criticizing every twitch of my muscles or so it feals like and every word I say seams like it goes through a database of ideas to criticize me, belittle me or take it the wrong way she even words like you are a "moron", "idiot" and "stupid" when speaking to me along with of course all the swear words in the book which I do not like because I never swear.
Because of this I have become withdrawn and try not to speak to her even for the most basic things because of impending backlash.
Lately I get the feeling that she is looking for a good enough excuse to divorce me and make herself look somewhat good, for instance a while ago I was having some physical difficulty and she told me that if the doctors find anything permenant she was divorcing me then later on she wanted me to go to a mental health doctor for no good reason and told me that if they found anything she was divorcing me.( I did not go ), I also think that if she gets rid of me its so she can find someone who does make lots of money.

So anyways the two main things on the list is the baby which I cannot change but she says its up to me to somehow (she cannot tell me how) to make it up to her and second she wants me to get a job making about $20.00 per hour so we can afford things like endless supplies of Soda oh and she says she wants to back to college.
Well what do you people think is this salvageable?

Welcome to Marriage Builders, waaw...

For the life of me, I can't think of how to really shorten your screen name.



In your very first paragraph you captured why the rule of happiness doesn't work...and how we can't really make our spouses happy.

We certainly contribute to their unhappiness.

The moral of happy isn't moral...or real. There isn't "when we get through this, then I'll be" because that's fantasy. You don't know what you'll feel until you get there.

We are made to experience the right here, the right now. Everything we do, think, feel, believe and perceive only happens in our choices right now.

What you hear from her isn't the truth (future fact)...it's her truth. What she believes...you can believe differently. I wonder what was in it for you to choose to not believe differently?

She believes if only this, then I will feel. Good to know that's fantasy. Not reality. Best way to understand your partner is to listen and repeat...to confirm or clarify that you heard them correctly...

"I hear you saying you're choosing not to be happy right now, but will later, after you get a job (fill in the blank), is that correct?"

When you get clear on not changing her feelings, her stuff...then you step up to partnering from parenting.

Next, hear her wishes as wishes they are...and know your wishful statements, too. Be clear on your stuff--own your thoughts, feelings, perceptions, beliefs...don't make them fact.

You hear her as critical, demanding...and yet you say she has a progressive and declining health issue. Is there an eventual resolution to it? Is there not? Not to excuse...to know and understand...most of what we demand/criticize in others, we are really doing to ourselves.

You can take it as about you...and make it a battle. Or you can strive first to understand, then be understood. Your choices are half the marriage.

You've greatly harmed your marriage. "I of course have no say in all of this because In another attempt to make her happy I gave her complete control of everything years ago."

You've had responsibility for half the marriage all along. You cannot give that responsibility away. You can avoid conflict, pacify, lie and manipulate...and you will still be responsible emotionally, financially, physically and mentally.

Don't buy your own fantasy, a defective coping skill...a cop out. Same for finances...you take the steps necessary to protect The Marriage...even when you don't FEEL like protecting her.

What I hear you saying about her the most is that she doesn't own her choices...and I don't hear you owning yours...when you do, the fantasy dissolves.

I chose to marry my wife. I chose to have a child with her, though I feared financially about the timing, and we managed to make it through to owning our own home, debt free. Then I chose to sell it. I chose to believe I could make her responsible for everything in the marriage, so I could feel blameless.

I lie by omission to keep things smooth...I listen to fix, not to know...I want to change my wife, her stuff, and then mine will change and I will be happy.

What if you're only doing the same thing? "If only my wife would be happy, then I would be happy." ?

Our partners are our reflections, as well as being whole, separate and equal individuals. That's pretty tricky, I think; complex and not easy. Simple. Not easy.

What if her anger is hers? Not about you? What if feeling the anger is okay and acting it out isn't? What if each time you did not say "that's unacceptable" when she defined you, yelled, snarked or degraded you, you were attacking your marriage? Would you have kept doing it?

I don't think so. Your healthy boundaries go with you...whether the marriage survives (or thrives) or not. These same choices you make to please (pleasing is disrespectful) continue, so does any future relationship you have...you'll end up seemingly in the same place, same lesson.

Learn now...take this opportunity to change your choices...remove blame from your marriage, see your wife as she truly is...separate and equal...and get rid of the happy moral and insert what you most crave...respect, consideration, acceptance, understanding...honesty.

Get really honest...read the articles, letters, books here on this sight and understand the four rules of marriage, how conflict is BETTER than withdrawal (few words to soothe) because humans connect in conflict, as well. And how it's not about being right...

it's about being married.

Healthy boundaries...you may be calling her names, defining her, in your head, not out loud...because you're permitting yourself to do that, you permit her to do that to you..revoke that permission. "Name calling is abusive. I won't stay present if you continue." Then follow through if she does...and if she doesn't, thank her for respecting your boundary.

That goes for profanity, AOs, SDs...learn about them, eliminate them from yourself and you will stop staying present for them. When you do remove yourself and your baby as a boundary enforcement, state what you're doing, why you're doing it, and when you will return to the discussion.

First time, usually 20 minutes for the chemicals released in your brain to dispurse...if she continues, remove for two hours...

Beware, though, your conditioning...if you choose not to listen and repeat, "I just heard you call me stupid, is that correct?" because you can hear what she didn't say..."I think you selling the house was stupid" is not calling you stupid.

And know your accomplishments...because it sounds like what you once knew, you don't remember now, either...

Together, you both have married, finished college, created a human being, bought a house, paid off a house, sold a house, gotten and held jobs (and it takes time to work upwards in the payscale, regardless of the field), been there with each other, and have learned a lot together and separately about marriage and yourselves.

Learning what you won't tolerate (any longer) is learning. When you change, the dance changes.

Sounds to me like FS is one of her top ENs...and FC is one of yours. That doesn't make her good with money or you good with kids, either. Means that when she acts from love towards you, like Affection, you get a love deposit. When you get a raise, she gets a deposit. Get to know your ENs, your LBs...because resentment can distort and obsess on what you lack right now...instead of what is abundant in your life.

About criticism...every twitch of your muscles...two things...one, you're deeply angry at yourself for staying present for the abuse (your choice), and two, you also hurt for knowing what she does to you, she does also to herself...

She doesn't deserve that treatment, does she?

So check yourself (all you have in your control)...you experience her as mean to you...are you mean to yourself? Is staying present for abuse punishment to you? A sacrifice? Your way to avoid conflict, not escalate, pacify in some way? Do you deserve that treatment--what you're doing to yourself?

Are you going to lead by example or fault by passive-aggressiveness? Are you going say, "I don't know if I can survive our marriage" a truer statement, maybe, than asking if the marriage is viable.

It's your marriage. It's alive...you're still half of a team, even when your partner seems like your enemy. Clear up your stuff...to see clearly...go for clarity...set your own goal...to have a rockin' great marriage with your partner...and see where enforcing healthy boundaries is an act of real love...and how you have been reacting to your fear, just as she has, so you both share so much in common.

Be there for one another and yourselves.

That's marriage.

Get to know what is verbal abuse "The Verbally Abusive Relationship"...so you can see, understand and define your boundaries...and you'll be surprised at how you, too, have acted abusively...so you can stop.

Learn to share, listen and repeat, stay present and intimate in healthy ways...to ask for what you want as yours...not about getting her to feel happy, remorseful; to stop her from hurting you.

You may be hearing her threats as boundary enforcements...if you do this, I'll do that. With healthy boundaries, yes, you have predetermined progressive enforcements...not SDs...which is what this is...so learn the difference. You'll find abuse within the all or nothing; or what sounds like a simple request requiring you to do something she wants, when she wants it and in the way she wants it.

I was your wife, btw...not you. I loved my DH hard and long and beat him down, too...wasn't healthy, wasn't what I really wanted, and when I almost lost our marriage, I woke up. I'd like you to see your 20th anniversary and three boys someday...with your wife...knowing you were a team, all the way, even when it didn't feel like it.

We're still in it together.

You don't make creating a child together up to anyone...he/she is a gift to the world...not a mistake, not a wrong.

She chose to have the child too. Know this. It's not the issue. Listen and repeat, "I hear you wishing our life was different right now, saying you didn't want our child back then, is that correct?" Calmly, assertively, for clarity. Really hear if it's wishful (fantasy), fearful, blame-shifting...what...don't assume, read between the lines...restate. Acknowledge, not fix. Not amend.

Hear where you define her...can be really sneaky.

Hold yourself to stating, not demonstrating...when you fear, state your fear...it's yours. It's valid. Doesn't mean she's frightening...means you feel fear. Don't react to it.

Take back your half of the responsibility for the finances...get creative with ownership...maybe the joint account with both your direct deposits is just for household bills...all of them...shared expenses...total it up, split it in half and deduct that from your net...and make your own account for what's left over for it. Same for hers. Share your ideas of what is a household bill and what's discretionary spending...would you have an issue with her endless soda (a DJ btw) if she bought it from her own account?

Does it advance her illness? Are you physically well now, btw?

Share your goals with each other and the goals for your marriage...enforce your boundaries progressively, not reactively, and get to know your partner today...stop taking her choices as threats...they are her choices.

Stop assuming why she says/does what she says/does...focus on actions, on reality...which is only you choose...you make your choices...you are free to base them on her possible response...but that's all assumption...base them on your own integrity...ferret out your own controlling ways, which are fantasy...because you're feeling victimized and controlled.

Don't let silence speak for you...it says nothing and betrays yourself. Then you see her as betraying you. The dance continues. Free yourself. And change the way you experience your marriage.

LA

LovingAnyway has given you some great advice. I just wanted to add something to what was said here:


"Best way to understand your partner is to listen and repeat...to confirm or clarify that you heard them correctly...

"I hear you saying you're choosing not to be happy right now, but will later, after you get a job (fill in the blank), is that correct?"

This is also an effective way to let that person hear back what they just said (and often how ridiculous it was). Just make sure to say it with no twist in your tone to make it sound condescending and to just state facts.

I think your wife is addicted to her own drama/negativity. Along with following LA's advice, I would encourage you to make a visit to an attorney and just get your ducks in a row. Do NOT tell her of this meeting. Just file the information away, either in your head or hard copy in another locale. Learn what your rights are. This doesn't mean you're going to initiate a divorce or anything like that, but it's better to be informed and take the blinders off also.

Verbal abuse doesn't have to be tolerated. Hold your hand up like a stop sign and tell her "Stop - we'll talk about this later when you can talk to me in a better tone and without the name calling." And basically, you leave the room. If she follows you, you remind her again why you won't stay to listen. Leave the apartment if you need to. Take your daughter with you. Go for a walk or an ice-cream.

When you get back, you can initiate a more constructive conversation. If she starts in again, you rinse and repeat. It's a pain in the neck, but it's the only way she'll learn that her present way of dealing with her issues isn't going to work.

Your wife continues to badger and verbally abuse because you stay there and listen to it. It's no longer fun when the audience gets up and leaves. You've taught your wife by tolerating it that it's an effective mode of communication. She's getting something out of it. You need to take that 'something' away. Now you're going to have to reteach her how to communicate with you in a more constructive way.

It's a grown up way of putting her in time out - taking away the toy she's beating on (you) every time she abuses it.

Your wife may also be severely depressed and in need of a good antidepressant. Some women have a harder time coming away from PPD than others.

I also think as this child's father, it would be a good idea to establish some firm boundaries with regard to what is said in front of your child, especially in reference to the child.

If your wife is permitted to continually put you down in front of the child, you're going to have a difficult time keeping your child's respect as she grows older. That is why it's vitally important to establish some boundaries and learn how to remove yourself and your child physically from hearing distance for a good 20 minutes or more and come back together like I said to give the two of you an opportunity to try again. As you leave, you can assure your wife that you'll be back and that when you do, you hope to talk again in a more constructive way.

Your wife may accuse you of running away or avoiding conflict. You aren't avoiding conflict. You're taking control of the situation where control has been lost and allowing both of you 20+ minutes to regroup. She may need to be reminded that you have no issues whatsoever discussing things when it's done in a normal tone like 2 adults, with no name calling or disrespect.

Consistently doing this should eventually click. It's horribly addictive to lash back. Anger feels good. Don't get sucked in. Be the grown up. It's like teaching a child how to act in more socially acceptable way. Your wife has been allowed to run a muck with her emotions. Your daughter will pick that up by example. You don't want to have problems with your daughter on top of everything else.

Soolee...good points and observations.

I wanted to address to you what you said though. If you remove yourself and don't state when you'll be back to resume the discourse...then you're playing games.

You're hitting the abandonment button...because the removing is forever.

Not really...just how she (and many others) can experience it. The confrontational partner may seem controlling...loud, abrasive, defining, in your face...when in fact, it is the silent, the few words, the fixing, soothing partner who is in control.

So adding removal is something to do with care and boundaries...to make it not withdrawal, removal, silent treatment, the shut out controlling act.

One is healthy and owns actions...the other is just more of reacting not acting.

Tough to discern after years of seeing it one way...this way...to see another.

Also, the abused gets to be right. There's that false payoff to deal with. Don't choose to stay present and beaten verbally to death to be right. That's a super double-whammy to yourself. And you may only be seeing pain coming in from your partner's verbal abuse, so she carries it for both of you...when she really can't.

LA

waawaa,

I know what Loving Anyway and Soolee have offered you is a lot to digest, but they are dead on the money. Print out these posts, re-read them and turn the ideas over in your head.

The simple statement LA made is the basis for all of the rethinking you must do: "When you change, the dance changes." Your wife can't continue to cha cha very long if you start waltzing.

You can't change her, but changing the way YOU think and operate will increase your self-respect, and ultimately, HER respect for you.

Don't give up, withdraw further, or allow yourself to grow resentment. Just work on calmly owning and stating YOUR stuff, acknowledging hers, and retraining yourself to be a fully functioning, equal partner. She can't stop you, you know.

This is going to take thought, time and commitment. Your option, of course, would be to avoid all that self stuff and lumber along toward divorce. You DO have a choice.

Right Here Waiting

Hi LA - I was editing as you were posting. Hope I clarified with my underlining. Will go and finish reading your post now.

Soolee...I see your edits. Thank you.

Wanted to say that you understand this was about me...not knowing this was my thing...so my emphasis wasn't a criticism...just hits that old, wornout button.



And something important came out from writing that post to you...when you commit and follow through to coming back, staying present again, within respectful boundaries, then you are acting your commitment. I think that when we say we're committed to our marriage, these are the acts which show we are...

like saying we love...and acting from it.

Even when we fear doing it...feel anger, despair, expect the worse...getting clear on coming back...not for more abuse...as our act of commitment...and reinforce...as you said he's trained her to treat him this way...there's a new dance. A dance of love.

Appreciate you, Soolee, very much.

After RHW's post, I thought of just saying...well, yeah, what she said...'cuz it's succinct. Nails it down.

And waaw...thank you for considering our responses. For being here. Another act of commitment for your marriage...asking for opinions from those who are friends of your marriage.



LA

Hi LA. I appreciate you too, absolutely. I hope everyone does because you've helped so many.

I totally get what you're saying. How many times have we had someone walk away from us before we've made our point? So frustrating, possibly frightening - and 'obviously' a conflict avoidance, or so it may seem to that person at that heated moment. I hadn't written about this verbal abuse stuff for months, and should have remembered how very important it is to state that you'll be back to discuss the issue calmly. That's an important part of the process no matter how angry that person is, because marriage is a committment, no matter how upset we are.

I also wanted to edit and mention that walking away without explanation can not only come off as conflict avoidance but passive aggressiveness as well, which will not help the relationship at all. It can have the appearance of manipulation at its finest if this isn't done right. And...for many there are children involved - children who are watching...and learning from the masters.

This is the nitty gritty stuff that strong marriages are made of, the coming-back-together-to-figure-things-out part and actually finding a compromise or at the very least, some amount of understanding and comprehension. Then there's this moment of clarity after the dust settles, that yeah...sticking together has its benefits in a lot of cases, and making the effort to figure things out has its rewards.

Pardon my reference, but I once heard a priest say how easy it is to be a good Christian to people who appreciate it and are kind in return...but that it's a true Christian who can do those things despite the response. I think it correlates to our relationships as well. It's easy to be happy in a marriage when things are running well, but it really takes a committed partner(s) to stick it out no matter what is going on. Fair weather Christian - fair-weather spouse - neither last long solely in that capacity.

I do believe we train our spouses how to treat us. We do. That's why it's so very important to self examine when we marriage build. Right now, for instance, I've been really trying to empathize with my husband and be more careful what I say, how I say something, and well...just try to be a kinder wife.

I'm learning to be grateful for the interruptions when he calls or wants to talk to me when I'm in the middle of something because I almost lost a dear uncle over the holiday, and while it may seem like an odd reminder, it was a waving flag that life can be short or long - but the thing is we just don't know HOW long we're going to have that person in our life.

So...you learn to "X" out of that web page. You learn how to say "I'll be right there!" instead of "Can it wait a few minutes?" You learn to bookmark that page you're reading. You learn to turn off the television...

and so on, and so on. You learn to do the right thing for your marriage...

LA and Soolee,

Thank you so much for your words of wisdom, and the time and energy you have spent posting over the years here. I have benefitted from them, and I do hope this poster can as well.

Recovery is truly a beautiful thing.

RHW

Wow. Waaw...you got such full and thought out responses! I really hope they help.

The thing that stands out for me is this "... work on calmly owning and stating YOUR stuff, acknowledging hers, and retraining yourself to be a fully functioning, equal partner. She can't stop you, you know. "

You have to look out for you, and in doing so you are likely to be looking out for her. acknowledge her and her issues/concerns/complaints but look after you through it all. When you are happy with who you are its the best foundation for everyone around you. I can't help but feel that your wife is picking on things that are not her real concern. I get the feeling these things she picks on about you are manifested by something else. What that is I don't know. Maybe she doesn't even know. You have a child. Its no-one's fault. You have a child and this is a fact. She needs to take responsibility for her equally, regardless of how this child came to be. She needs help to truly accept what is. I know alot of people here are Christians, and I respect that. But I also know the Buddhists have a remarkable ability for acceptance. Knowing the Buddhist perspective would not make you a bad Christian, in fact I feel they fit well together...Christianity and Buddhism.

There are books that comes to mind (for both of you). Just about anything by Eckhart Tolle - The Power of Now, and A new Earth. He is very grounded. He tells us about focusing on the now, what is, not getting hung up on the past or the future. He talks about the trap of getting up on 'I'll be happy when....'. He talks, especially in A New Earth about the ego and how it drives us. How we do better when recognise what the ego does and realise that we do not have to be a slave to it. I buy the CDs and listen to them as I clean or walk the dogs. I have to replay them to really let what he says sink in. But what he says is real and if I had my way everyone would read/listen and understand what he says and I know this would make the world a better place. It certainly makes me a better person. This I know.

Its so sad that people do not appreciate each other. We get caught up in so much stuff. And it hurts. My ex, who now wants to reconcile gets caught up in 'stuff'. I wish that he would get more in touch with his spiritual side. Your wife and you, together and separately, would absolutely benefit from this and Eckhart Tolle can really help. Whether you are a Christian, Hindu or a Buddhust or none of those, it doesn't matter with Tolle. We are people and we have different levels of consciousness that we can tap into. Its not bunkum. Its real. Its good. It helps.

Finally, I want to send you a hug. You are doing the best you can under difficult circumstances. No matter what happens, be ok. You are you, and you are so special. You are trying hard and you are in pain. Be the best you can be - by your own standards. Try counseling (both separately and together would be best). I would recommend a spiritual counselor (I am trying to find one down here in Australia for myself). If after all you have tried, you can't get through this together, then splitting up may be the best option. I totally believe in fighting for a marriage, as I did fight fiercely for mine, but there comes a point, as it did for me, when one realises that they have to let the other one go. But you both fell in love, there was something special there. See if you can rekindle that. I wish you so much.

You need to learn about boundaries. You have none, and then you resent her for not respecting them. Determine what you can live with happily, explain it to her, ask her help in determining a fair balance, and then show consequences if she crosses your boundaries (such as spending money you don't both agree on).

Take control of the finances back. Set up a spending account, use the rest for savings and bills. If she doesn't like it, she can go earn more money. You are doing this for the future of the family.

In other words, learn to be the head of the family. She will start to respect you, once you respect yourself.