Affairs don't begin because of M problems, they begin because you are willing to lie.

These secrets, withheld truths, half truths, unpleasant things you wouldn't tell your wife, whatever you call them, are called "LIES".

Another way to say it; something intended or serving to convey a false impression, still "LIES".


ALL the "WHY'S" are "LIES" that are told to cover up a purely selfish choice.

Everything else is just rationalization.

You know what they say about rationalization, it's like masterbation, you're only scruewing yourself!

................................

Drop their pants?

Do you really believe cheating is just about sex?

The reason why it's mostly men who cheat is exactly because we are terrible at telling exactly how we feel, and we resort to something destructive and yes sexual. When women feel the same feelings of loneliness and abandonment, they talk. I admit that is something men must learn from you women.

Guess you didn't read all of the posts here by betrayed husbands.

I know your post was done 6 month ago. But it really touched home for me, your post was as if my husband wrote it himself. He too has the same questions going through his mind. I also ask my self how and what he can do to make me feel better about what he did to me. The A was exposed to me by the OW husband and I felt my world had fallen apart. My WS was apologetic and couldnt give a reason other than he didnt feel i was there for him physically. His A was purely sexual (6 times) and something that meant more for the OW than it did for him and thats why he ended it.

Anyhow. He too has been so thoughtful and caring about my emotional rollar coaster, but nothing he says seems to ease my mind. I keep waiting for the BIG APOLOGY, the tears from Him not from me for once, and him to beg and plead for my forgiveness. A god forsaken sincere Apology. One that I know deep in my gut he means and not just something to make me feel better for the moment.

If I ever get that and it makes a difference for me, then I will tell you, but for right now that is what i am looking for from my husband. 20 years of marriage is a long time to waste.

Steve Harley to JustKim:

"As long as you believe that your H had an affair because his emotional needs were not being met (as a *primary* reason) you will be meeting his emotional needs out of fear, there will always be a gun held to your head. Your H had an affair because he failed to protect HIMSELF from his own vulnerabilities, period. He is accountable and responsible for all"

Dr. Harley to me:

"MelodyLane: Let me add something to what I have already written to you. I hope I'm not being too redundant.

You will hear Joyce and I repeat, "there are reasons but no excuses." One of the reasons for an affair is that emotional needs are not being adequately met in marriage, which makes an affair that meets those needs more tempting. But the same thing can be said of some who rob banks. They may be out of work, need money to pay the rent, ask for a loan but are refused by the bank, which makes robbing it more tempting. One reason for the robbery is that the bank refused the loan, but it wasn't the bank's fault that it was robbed. On hindsight, a bank might have helped the robber get the help he needed through social services, but the bank is under no obligation to do so, even though they advertise that it is a "caring bank."

An affair is different from robbing banks in that a couple have promised to be more caring than banks. But the principle is the same. The lack of care by one spouse does not excuse harmful behavior by the other spouse. Even when one spouse absolutely refuses to be affectionate, or to make love, or to talk intimately, or to join in recreational activities with the other spouse, it gives them no right to have those needs met by someone else of the opposite sex in an affair. They have the right to separate until the other spouse meets those needs, or even divorce when it becomes obvious that there will be absolutely no cooperation (there are many who strongly disagree with me on that point). But an affair is so cruel and so painful that nothing any one spouse does (including having an affair themselves) can justify the suffering that an affair causes.

Making a disgraceful act more tempting by someone is no excuse for that person committing the disgraceful act. Besides, in most marriages, there are times when emotional needs are not being met for reasons beyond anyone's control. That's why I recommend extraordinary precautions to help spouses avoid an affair. They are to not allow anyone of the opposite sex to meet their need for affection, or intimate conversation, or recreational companionship, or sexual fulfillment. When those needs are met, they deposit so many love units that you are likely to fall in love with that person, and make you hurt your spouse in the worst way possible. I hope that explanation helps."

Best wishes
Willard F. Harley, Jr.

I cried just as much as my wife did that first week. Worst week of our lives, hands down.

That big apology will come. I know the way it happened for me was when I realized just how much I had hurt my wife. How much I had betrayed her trust, how many lies I told during the whole time.

Keep telling him all your feelings. Tell him you're not trying to make him feel guilty, you're trying to share what you're going through. In my case, that was something we kept avoiding, and it's one of the big things that led to the affair.

At some point, all those feelings you share with him will resonate.

And take care of yourself...

To extrapolate on Dr. Harley's analogy, sure a person in need of money isn't forced to rob a bank. Robbing a bank isn't the only solution to his problem, and he should be punished for making the wrong decision.

But isn't that just curing the symptom? What are the reasons the man became unemployed or poor: massive corporate layoffs, racism, bad economy? What are the systematic problems that forced this man to rob a bank? Sure, we can put him in jail and he can do time, but we have to admit that doesn't solve the problem of bank robbing as a whole. How do we stop people from robbing banks?

When a doctor treats a patient, they don't just treat the symptoms, they have to treat the cause. I'm talking about seeing passed the symptoms and finding out the real cause.

Sure, it can just be that the WS wanted to cheat because they didn't care about their commitment to the marriage, they wanted sex with someone else, they were weak, evil, selfish, all that. But for the rest of us, it wasn't that simple. If you believe those are the only reasons why your WS cheated on you, then you shouldn't take that person back. Who wants to be married to a person who does something totally vile for no reason at all?

But if you believe that marriage is about two people, and that your spouse isn't just pure concentrated evil, that they did what they did because they were hurt human beings that made terrible decisions, then there is chance. There is hope.

You're still missing the point:

Why do spouses lie? Why do they lie about certain things, not just affairs?

It sounds easy and black and white (all the whys are lies). You sound incredibly wounded. Ask your WS why they lied, why they cheated, what feelings they had before and during. Those are the whys you may be afraid to hear.

Equating why with lie is just a way to dodge the truth.

No one was forced to commit adultery. They made a CHOICE. Just like the robber made a CHOICE.

You make poor choices and you realize consequences for them. You can't blame it on being FORCED.

Claiming to be FORCED is claiming victimhood.

People who cheat, just like robbers, are not victims. They are the perpetrator.

forlife, tst is a FORMER wayward husband so he can't ask "his WS." The reason that waywards cheat is because they have poor boundaries and poor self control. The marriage may have been in poor shape, which made him vulnerable, but many marriages are bad yet most people don't cheat. The WS is also responsible for the poor condition of the marriage.

Not recognizing this is just a way to dodge the truth. The first step towards recovery is taking accountability for one's own bad choices. Blaming it on one's spouse is not the solution, but what caused the problem in the first place.


Now that is silliness. No one is FORCED to rob a bank, just as no one is forced to commit adultery. This is a classic case of blameshifting and a failure to take responsibility for your own actions. That is not recovery, friend.

You sound like you've never done anything that you regret.

You sound like you've never been in a position where you didn't know what to do.

I take complete ownership for my failing. But WHY did I fail? That's the question that needs to be asked. If I just go on my way saying "Wow, I failed. Hope it doesn't happen again.", that won't really solve the problem.

And no, it's not just the WS fault, darn it. They might've committed the act, but something was not right to begin with.

If a marriage can truly be perfect and then a spouse commits adultery, then of course we just have to brand that person as evil and send them on their way.

But wait, no marriage is perfect, so there MUST be a reason every time.

Among other things, you may have had poor marital boundaries where you didn't protect yourself and your marriage from adultery.

Please read up on Harley's on-line articles regarding the "Four Rules of Protection".

There are many MB concepts that can help you and your wife not only understand the whys, but fully recover your marriage where it's the one you have always dreamed of having.

Stay, read, learn.

Jo

You sound very fogged out and defensive and hardly like a person in recovery. You are probably the least objective person on this thread, so I hope you listen up and keep an open mind. Just being honest.

The real "cause" is that the WS made a bad choice due to poor boundaries. The reason he/she may have been vulnerable is because he/she did not tend to his marriage.

The state of the marriage is the result of TWO people, so that state cannot be solely blamed on the BS. The WS is 100% responsible for the affair, and 50% responsible for the state of the marriage.

Until the WS stands up and take responsibility for his bad choices and his part in the state of the marriage, there will be no recovery. Being honest about one's poor choices and taking accountability for those choices is the FIRST STEP in recovery.

Look, we all know it takes some NADS to take an honest look at oneself and take accountability for one's actions, but believe me, it is worth it. That is how one recovers. Recovery is not for wimps.

That is where you are wrong. It is all the WS' fault. It was 100% your choice and 100% your responsibility. Your BS might be share some responsibility for the state of your marriage, but you own 100% responsibility for your affair.

If you believe that meeting your needs is the CAUSE, then you will cheat again. It is up to you to correct the poor boundaries that led to your affair.

It is also up to you to EARN your wife's forgiveness for your adultery. Your wife should not forgive you until you have earned it by demonstrating some trustworthiness by setting better boundaries.

OMG.

15 posts over 6 months lead you to this????

It's been a few months, and I'm not fogged out.

I sound defensive because when I first started reading stuff on this site, all I saw was how much concern there was for the BS and how all the WS were treated like they were lepers.

Maybe I'm just on the wrong site...

Anyway, I'm speaking theoretically, which makes me sound like an [censored].

Of course, I wasn't tending to my marriage. I made a bad choice due to poor boundaries. But WHY wasn't I tending my marriage?

Poor boundaries? That's like saying illegal immigrants cross the border because they can. That's how they do it, but it's not why.

Again, I'm being theoretical. I know why I made those bad choices. And it wasn't because of poor boundaries. It was because I felt like my wife no longer loved me. I was wrong, it was my own blindness that made me think that. I felt neglected and abandoned and rather than say what I felt, I gave up. I said "She doesn't care about me. She won't care what I do. I should just make myself happy somewhere else."

I should've been honest about how I was feeling. I should've spoken up. I shouldn't have thought those things without speaking to her. I shouldn't have given up on her and on us.

oh dear. The rapist stands over the bleeding rape victim whining about his pain after he just raped her.

This guy is still foggy for a REASON, and I suspect he is still in contact with his OW or is lying to his BS about something.

Cute icon.

Got anything worthwhile to say though?

That is because you are focused on YOUR PAIN and not the pain of your victim. That is a sign of fogginess and a lack of remorse that we usually only see with waywards who are still wayward. Your self pity is another sign.

You show no sign whatsoever of recovery, and there must be a REASON.

Nope, I am not seeing the OW. I've completely severed all communication and haven't spoken to her since.

I'm not lying to my wife about anything, nor am I keeping anything from her.

The fact that would you say "rapist" and "this guy" tells me you're missing the point. All these acronyms tell me that too. There seems to be a kind of groupthink going on on this site sponsored by Dr. Harley, who also sells his books here I believe.

Listen everyone: A spouse who has an affair is 100% responsible for his or her actions. But did that marriage only start having problems the minute the affair began? Of course not. Both parties are responsible for the state of that marriage. Was the affair the CAUSE of the bad marriage or was it an AFFECT? Dr. Harley's Love Bank and Rules of Protection are missing the point. There is something much deeper about marriage, and much deeper about its problems, that goes beyond cute little terms.