I am angry but would like to know how I could make her feel she is wrong and should be ashamed for trying to come between my H and me. She has known us for some time and certainly knows he is married w/kids. We all work in the same company and occasionally must see each other. He is on the fence and says there is no longer a relationship. He has moved because of my pressure on the subject and says it is cut off. I am humiliated at just the thought of the two of them. She is certainly worried about what I may do and he seems to be also. I do not wish to make a scene but she needs to know I'm not going anywhere. I only want to send a message. Who's experienced this?

I too, was very angry and hurt upon discovering my H had cheated on me. What I did though, was nothing overt. I added her to my AOL IM list, which doesn't inform when you are added to someone's list, so now I know whenever she's online and for how long. Since her new apartment is near my pharmacy, whenever I pick up a prescription (I have fibromyalgia which is chronic and I need refills occasionally), if I feel like it, I'll drive by her apt and just look at it. Was tempted to leave a voo doo doll stuck full of pins on a pile of dirt, but decided not to. H told me what kind of car she drove, but whenever I've driven by, she's always been at work. The dingbat sent him an email detailing every aspect of her daily schedule, which I printed out and keep secret. H deleted all her emails after I found out, but she thinks I read them first.<BR>H told me all of his passwords to his secret email accounts, which I promptly went to and changed all the passwords. He promised he'd never use them again, and his not ever mentioning non accessibility shows me he meant at least one thing he said. I even called and listened to her voice on her answering machine - using anonymous call,and the other code that makes it so you can't be traced, and I called from a pay phone not by my neighborhood.<BR>Perhaps the most sinister thing I have planned is that I filled out one of those questionaires that those dating services send out to help you meet your "mr. right". I haven't sent it yet. I used rubber gloves and have it in a baggie so no fingerprints. I may send it on valentines day weekend.<BR>Of course they could still be carrying on behind my back, now even more expert at hiding things, but at least I feel like I have some control. She never knew about me, and in some ways, I can keep an eye on her, and she doesn't know it.<BR>I was tempted to confront and be mean too, but this way, now that she now knows about me, and is likely waiting nervously for the other shoe to drop, I don't ever plan to let it. Again, it's all about the feeling of taking control back from her. I now request more of my H as far as spending time together as a couple and as a family. Before, he was always saying his time was too crowded and he needed time to breathe. Now he breathes at the beach, the museums, the movies, the restaurants, or wherever else we decide he's going to take us.<BR>Of course, I constantly let him know how much he's loved and appreciated and valued by all of us at home. My discovery was back in May,so I've had more time in recovery. But at first I had it rough too. Most of the time it does get better, but it takes time.<BR>Take care, and don't let her get to you. Your H stayed with you, not her.

hi ladyb,<BR>Do a search with the revenge topic and you will see that how you are feeling is sure normal and expected. Some get pretty creative, pretty gruesome, pretty focused. Does that help?<BR>I would love to see the ow's with their eyeballs lying on the floor and bleeding profusely from the wounds. But would it heal me? <BR>NO NO NO <BR>I does nothing to heal you, it only makes you worse. Does it help me feel better? Only for a split second...then the pain is back knowing my h shared something else with them and I can only inflict pain. <BR>Look past wanting to beat the hell out of them, look past wanting thenm to feel the pain you feel. It made me feel better just to imagine it, then push it away and move on.<BR>Look at how you really want to be inside. Seek the good feelings that come from healing!! Seek the peace that can only come from your heart.

ladyb - you're not alone. A thousand things have crossed my mind and other's too (you should look up that thread Ubu started one time - you'll see we all have our moments!!)<P>You can't give her that much power, though. She knows what she's done. You show her you're there to stay through your steadfastness and your determination to rebuild your marriage.<P>It's ok.<P>Lori

Hey, I've been there many times. I even went to her house to talk to her and beg her to leave me and my H alone. They have no conscience, they are self-centred and selfish and only think of themselves. Just hold your head up high and know that deep down you ARE the better person.

If you really and truely want to drive her insane and your h too , then you play the nicey nice game. I did this to my h and the wildebeast when they were living together.<BR>I was as nice as I could be when I had to be around them, I even invited them to dinner, I can cook, she couldn't or wouldn't. And since h's dad was a chef, he does like a decent meal. It made me ill, but it helped him to remember what he was losing in me. Especially when she threw fits about him seeing me and our son. <P>I told ya'll I'd be lurking. <P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>

Hi lady<BR>Here I go busting my nice person record : I felt like that too, right at the begining. I'm pretty sure we all did. It's a normal reaction.<BR>I posted somewhere some of the things I did. WHich were mostly harmless, but helped to keep a smile on my face.<BR>Among others, I did page her and instead of my phone # I left numbers for the city dump, a male escort service, a psycologist and stuff like that. Knwoing about her interest in astrology, and being interested in it myself. I send her an offer I knew she wouldn't refuse ( not in my name of course, I turned myself into a prestigious astrologer) : free personalized horoscopes for a couple of months. She answered of course. DId I have fun, loking at her chart and creating the horoscopes! As I said, it was mostly fun stuff, I'm not much into real anger and I'm not a violent person. But it made feel better at the time. <P>It is normal to feel that way. Now what we do with those feelings is what counts. Everybody feels like that, but some of us are able to let go after a while, and become free ( no ow dictating how we should live our lives or our marriage, just because we'e still hanging into our anger ) . Others take a little longer to realize that this feelings won't take us anywhere, and might actually keep us so focused on the ow that we miss the good stuff happening in our marriage.<P>SO as I say that what you are feeling is normal, I want to remind you that you will have to let go of that anger at some point. The good news is that most of the times it comes so naturaly we don't even notice it until it's gone for a while.<P>Take care<BR>Kat<BR><P>------------------<BR>Each and everyone of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought, and the gift of understanding.

Gee Ladies:<P>Why is everyone concentrating on how to treat the OW? Think about it. Perhaps all of your conniving and scheming ways is what got you in trouble in the first place. Funny how you can take the time and effort to seek revenge but you might not have taken the time or made the effort to keep your H from sneaking around to find something he obviously wasn't getting at home. <P>Don't be so presumptous as to think you know what your H's needs are and then go on a self pity binge after you find out you were wrong. After the fact, it does little good to moan or to make a scene or to seek revenge. That will only alienate your H from you and solidify his relationship with OW.<P>Be adult and straightforward and sit down and "CALMLY" talk things out with your H. You'll get a lot more out of it.<P>Flip

Hello Flip, I think maybe you and some of us are on different pages when reading this topic. I am not concentrating on any revenge, nor am I conniving and scheming!! Many of us had no idea that our spouses had issues, such as sexual addictions. Many of us did all we knew how and in some instances that is considerable!! Maybe it worked for awhile, maybe not-everyone has a different situation.<BR>Self pity? Not from here. Moaning, making a scene? None here. This is a place to voice feelings and issues, and search for answers. Should we choose to voice something that you have no understanding about, that is ok Flip. <BR>Maybe you jumped to the conclusion?

Thanks for all the comments. I just wanted to know I'm not alone with the crazed thoughts. I am not interested in making a scene. She pursued him. I hold him completely responsible for his actions. It is just hard to sit and know I can't do anything. I found out about this affair from e-mail by accident. He moved out after our discussion. I want him to come home and work through a resolution. I did not go looking for anything and had never snooped. Now I am <BR>curious and a bit obsessed with knowing and I am more aware of what he is doing. <P>

Oh ladyb - you are so funny! Who wouldn't love to do that! My H actually thinks the OW is a sensitive, understanding pillar of virtue. I just posted my thoughts about her at the end of my topic thingy. I do it again. If this married pillar of virtue is so damn unhappy in her marriage, why doen't she divorce her H? Answer; because what she is after is money which is why she wants my H, and afterall if she divorces her H and mine decides to reconcile his marriage, she's gonna be a little poorer so she's holding on to her own H, JUST IN CASE. Real pillar of virtue, huh? It's so easy for us to see the motives of other women transparently, but painful to see your own H become such a sucker! There are a lot of preditors out there, especially where your husband works. And yes, knocking the heck out of her would be oh so good, even tho it wouldn't solve anything and probably make the H feel even more sorry for her.

Hi cl:<P>I didn't say it, you folks did:<P>Ladyb says: <P>“I want to kick the Ows butt <P>I am angry but would like to know how I could make her feel she is wrong and should be ashamed for trying to come between my H and me………. She is certainly worried about what I may do and he seems to be also. I do not wish to make a scene but she needs to know I'm not going anywhere. I only want to send a message. Who's experienced this?” <P>Tendervittles Says:<BR> <BR>“I too, was very angry and hurt upon discovering my H had cheated on me. What I did though, was nothing overt. I added her to my AOL IM list, which doesn't inform when you are added to someone's list, so now I know whenever she's online and for how long. Since her new apartment is near my pharmacy, whenever I pick up a prescription (I have fibromyalgia which is chronic and I need refills occasionally), if I feel like it, I'll drive by her apt and just look at it. Was tempted to leave a voo doo doll stuck full of pins on a pile of dirt, but decided not to. H told me what kind of car she drove, but whenever I've driven by, she's always been at work. The dingbat sent him an email detailing every aspect of her daily schedule, which I printed out and keep secret.”<P>“Perhaps the most sinister thing I have planned is that I filled out one of those questionaires that those dating services send out to help you meet your "mr. right". I haven't sent it yet. I used rubber gloves and have it in a baggie so no fingerprints. I may send it on valentines day weekend.”<BR> <BR>Cl says:<P>“hi ladyb,<BR>I would love to see the ow's with their eyeballs lying on the floor and bleeding profusely from the wounds.” <P><BR>Lostva says:<P>“<BR>ladyb - you're not alone. A thousand things have crossed my mind and other's too (you should look up that thread Ubu started one time - you'll see we all have our moments!!) <P>Kat1 says:<BR> <P>“Hi lady<BR> Among others, I did page her and instead of my phone # I left numbers for the city dump, a male escort service, a psycologist and stuff like that. Knwoing about her interest in astrology, and being interested in it myself. I send her an offer I knew she wouldn't refuse ( not in my name of course, I turned myself into a prestigious astrologer) : free personalized horoscopes for a couple of months. She answered of course. DId I have fun, looking at her chart and creating the horoscopes! "<P>I guess thinking about it is normal but don't think about it too much it will end up destroying you in the long run. Get over it and get back to what's important. <P>By the way. I've been going back and reading all of the posts in this forum (lots of them) and the one common denominator is that all the spouses M and W, did everything they could to meet their spouses needs. If that's the case how come the spouses ended up elsewhere emotionally and physically? <P>How come we never have time to do it right the first time. We seem to be making the time we need to fix it when it goes bad. <P>I'm one of the jerks that did a bad bad thing and I'll admit it. I want to go back to my W and make it all up to her, but I expect her to make it all up to me too. We didn't get this way all by our lonesome. We had help on the way out and we could use help on the way back.<P>Flip<P>

Flipper, If you read all those posts, then there's something you missed.<BR>A lot of us, did realize that there were things starting before the affair that weren't working well in the marriage. A lot of us recognized our part on those weak links, and most of us focused on fixing them.Do those things validate the affair? Not at all, but many of us understood that the affair could have been a consequence of that.<P>So go back and take a look. <BR>Yes we did think about the op, and by the way women were not the only ones. And yes some of us even did something. If it was right or wrong is not the question, the question was if it was normal to feel like that, and the answer is yes. <P>Many of us, found a way of working on what needed to be worked, and are now in recovery for a while as a team. And many of us, stopped thinking about the op or feeling angry for a while too.<BR>It's all part of the process and some phases seem to be more commom than others. <P>FOr the record, I had 100% trust in my H before the afair, and never snooped, or had any problems with his friends ( male or female ) so that couldn't have been what got us in trouble in the first place. I did snoop after the affair, there were many things that didn't make sense, and for a while he was lying big time. I don't do it anymore. I do ask for an explanation if something is not clear to me, or sounds strange.<BR>I never antagonized the ow, and even he recognizes that. I wouldn't want to make the mistake of making him feel he had to defend her.<BR> And my "pranks" didn't harm her in any way ( her actions however did harm me and my children ). <P>Take care<BR>Kat<P>------------------<BR>Each and everyone of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought, and the gift of understanding.<p>[This message has been edited by Kat1 (edited October 19, 1999).]

flip, a few months back I had a very big disagreement with another member over this exact same thing.....the assumptions that one draws about "everybody" then feels the need to point out what one should or should not have done. Assumptions are dangerous things, and should not be entertained lightly. Usually after some serious reflection we can all see what should be have been done. What is it they say about hindsight? <BR>Absolutely what kat said and more!! Again, there are some of us that have situations where one would never have known, where all needs were being met except the physically impossible.<BR>What we are sharing here may well be simple quick flashes in the mind...nothing more and nothing less. They take a nanosecond, they are not obsessions nor would the nanosecond do anything pro or con for the marriage. <BR>From what you say, I understand that you felt your wife shared a portion of the affair responsibility? Yours and others here have that situation, but not all of us.<BR>And we all share in the healing! <BR>I hope one day that you will be able to read threads like this with understanding, as kat's sig line suggests. And I hope I can do the same to understand your issues. en paz, cl

CL and KAT1:<P>Thanks for your insight. I appreciate your feedback. Actually I need your feedback. It will help in understanding the past and creating a better future. Just one small reiteration: no of us is without sin. No one should be so presumptuos as to believe they had "nothing" to do with it. It wasn't "their" fault. We all contribute to one degree or another. True, some folks don't need much of an excuse to slip, but most of us do. My W failing was simple. She just felt that she was doing the right thing. "Her" right thing, not mine. She was told what I thought my 'needs' were but she felt that they weren't as important as the 'real' needs within a marriage. Also true is that most of my unimportant needs dealt with sex and affection. These needs were only important if they were met in her manner on her terms. So I guess, I formed bonds with others who could meet "my" needs in "my" way. That was selfish, I know, but I excused it by telling myself that I wasn't giving away anything that my wife wanted. So if she didn't want it, it really wasn't cheating her, right? Don't answer that, Ok? I know it wasn't right.<P>She snooped and she found. She got hurt and she struck back. Problem is she struck back at everyone and now she can't trust herself to have a friendship with anyone. Fact is I was more of a friend to her friends than she was and that was my downfall. All of the people she struck out at are gone, except for me. I'm hanging in there because believe it or not I love her in more ways than she will ever know. She really hasn't changed much. Still sarcastic and caustic as ever. But I have changed a great deal. My needs are still not being met but I have adjusted and assigned lower priorities to them for the time being. It's been over a year and a half since my "friendship" ended, but to her it is still like yesterday. Is there an end to all of this? Do most people survive it and actually move on with there lives? I have read time and time again about how many of the folks here seem to continue as if nothing happened. W actually make love to their H and vice versa. My W hasn't allowed sex in over a year, but that's not such a big issue since she really wasn't interested in it for years before then either. Oh well nuff said.<P>Sorry if I offended anyone. I guess I'm a little touchy right now.<P>Flip

Flip, in some ways I have to agree with you that we shouldn't think only about the OW and the pain she caused us, especially ones like my "friend" who slept with my H even though she knew how dedicated I was to him, that he was in essence the center of my world and everything I did, I did for him. So much so that I was bitterly fighting my own battle with my lost identity and he knew it.<BR>No, we shouldn't blame that OW....right? Every story is different and even though you say your sorry for what you did to your wife (to me there is NO GOOD REASON FOR GOING THAT FAR!) you don't really appear contrite about seeking your needs elsewhere instead of attempting to work things out harder with your wife. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't hear you as being that sorry and maybe that's what your wife is hearing, therefore, why SHOULD she forget the pain you've caused her?<BR>Your right in that it isn't only the cheating spouse's fault. We should have been mind readers or known enough about our spouses to second guess their nature. They should have markings to tell us that when things got rough we should instinctly know that they would cheat, right?<BR>It takes two people to work on a relationship, maybe you BOTH need help? Are you perfect in your repair of this relationship? Are you meeting her needs as well? Are you giving her the support you should as the betrayer? <BR>Yes, your right, the OW is just the side product of the problem. But it is part of what we can lash out at when we, who love our spouses dearly, don't really want to blame our spouse for this betrayal, what do you think? God Bless!<P>------------------<BR>Chick's <BR>Bren<P>You won't see things until your ready to not be blind!<P><BR>

Chick's:<P>All my problems stem from W's "friends". I am more than heartfully sorry for what has happened and for the pain I may have caused, but I need to know that my W understands why things happened. She didn't have to be a mind reader Twenty years of telling her what my needs are should have clued her in. I know I failed her by not meeting some of her important needs as well. I've said it before but its worth repeating here "We always fill those needs "we" think need filling, not the ones that "they" want met. It's always easier for us to think we know better than our spouses because it is easier to do what we want than what they want.<P>I am now (1 1/2 years) willing to try to meet whatever needs she may have. According to her, I am. She's not meeting mine in the least. She's not sure she ever will be able to. But I keep going and hoping. <P>Let's see what happens<P>Flip

Flip etc. One of the things I failed to mention was that my H told me he loved me all the way up until the day he left. Even through counseling all I got was that his feelings were changing. Until I found out about the affair, none of his actions made sense. He was hiding his feelings and making me happy. He says he was miserable because he always felt everything was "my way." We are talking finally on resolution since this was posted. We're not out of the woods but it is progress none the less. Women can't hear what Men don't say. There is a book available on the subject also. We react to the way we're treated. One of the things I learned is to pay attention to the emotional needs he has. He was at a critical stage and it was not obvious to me what to do and he didn't know how to communicate about it. We are certainly more sensitive to each other. My only issue is going forward and forgetting the pain and how to appear normal in our relationship.

Flip etc. One of the things I failed to mention was that my H told me he loved me all the way up until the day he left. Even through counseling all I got was that his feelings were changing. Until I found out about the affair, none of his actions made sense. He was hiding his feelings and making me happy. He says he was miserable because he always felt everything was "my way." We are talking finally on resolution since this was posted. We're not out of the woods but it is progress none the less. Women can't hear what Men don't say. There is a book available on the subject also. We react to the way we're treated. One of the things I learned is to pay attention to the emotional needs he has. He was at a critical stage and it was not obvious to me what to do and he didn't know how to communicate about it. We are certainly more sensitive to each other. My only issue is going forward and forgetting the pain and how to appear normal in our relationship.

Flip etc. One of the things I failed to mention was that my H told me he loved me all the way up until the day he left. Even through counseling all I got was that his feelings were changing. Until I found out about the affair, none of his actions made sense. He was hiding his feelings and making me happy. He says he was miserable because he always felt everything was "my way." We are talking finally on resolution since this was posted. We're not out of the woods but it is progress none the less. Women can't hear what Men don't say. There is a book available on the subject also. We react to the way we're treated. One of the things I learned is to pay attention to the emotional needs he has. He was at a critical stage and it was not obvious to me what to do and he didn't know how to communicate about it. We are certainly more sensitive to each other. My only issue is going forward and forgetting the pain and how to appear normal in our relationship.