I like the ideas of getting DS10 in to talk to a therapist about the issues mentioned, and getting legal counsel informed of the problems... for several reasons, including laying groundwork for future potential court-ordered visitations, protecting yourself against allegations, etc.

Thanks for the wishes, God I sure hope its a Happy one. Last year was by far the worst year of my entire life!

We had started therapy group with the HMO i have out her in California called Kaiser Permanente. We only made it through 3 of the 6 sessions as DS10's schedule was crazy so I decided to stop. He was in regular school at the time, then after school math lab, then rush home grab a drink and snack, jump in the car adn rush 30 minutes to 1 hour therapy group, run to the car, rush 30 minutes home, run in the house put football uniform on then rush to 2 hour football practice. So, I decided that was too for him. I am going to call tomorrow to get him back into a new 6 week therapy group.

The intake therapist said it is not uncommon to have these symptoms of anxiety he called transitional disorder and that usually they go away after a while. IDK.

But this is the problem my HMO, Kaiser Permanente, says it is not policy for them to do anything involved in custody, courts, etc. I would have to go outside the HMO and it is costly and I do not have the finances to do so at this time. I do however like their approach of solution based therapy and they let the kids help come up with solutions to conquer their problems. I like that approach a lot as opposed to medication or psychoanalyzing him. Maybe I'm weird.


Pep if you know anything more about that feel free, but that is what I was told.

Yes, I so wish that he would look in the mirror, that's gonna be a hard one for him. I don't know why but he never has been able to do that. Shoot I did it for both of us, maybe thats why.

I feel mixed about the new year. Feels good kinda like a new start but then you remember nothing has changed and everything is following you into the new year.

Went for a walk this morning. Felt really good, its beautiful here in Cali, think its gonna hit 70 today-yeah and its winter. My backyard is connected to a park and there is a very big public duck pond just a bit further from the house so I stopped in on my way back from the walk. Called DS10 and said meet me at the pond so the 2 of us sat on a bench and watched the ducks. Was nice.

So came back both kids did not want to visit today. DD17 says i don't want to visit. Then I thought well I am not going to force you but you must tell him the truth and not protect him from consequences of what he has done. DS10 does not want to go unless DD17 is going. But oddly he has visited him 2 times before in the last 8 months with out DD17. He goes up and down about it. Anyways She wanted to tell him she was sick.

So H texted and asked if could come down and DD17 said I think its your day. So basically DD17 told me they are not visiting him today and that she did tell him the truth and not a lie. DD17 told him that she said she felt it was dumb she had to visit him and that we should be a family. He ended with have a good day. So no visit but because the kids didn't want to. What a way to start 2009.

Overall feeling okay today. I wasn't in the mood to go out last night. Did take the kids out to eat. Then came hope and went through massive closets and drawers throwing out stuff. Gonna do more today. Feels more organized, feels better. Cleaning is so therapeutic LOL Now i just need to get the kids to understand that LOL

I couldn't agree more, that's my thoughts. I just don't get it for as much as he has accused me of controlling. Its mind bending.

I actually think his mom, OW or other retarded brother told him to get the phone. I'm pretty sure he didn't think of it. I've been with him since i was 14 and I'm pretty sure it wasn't his idea 1st.

I'm about to email you.

NO!!!!!!!!!

IMO, even a perfectly normal 10yo homeschooler does not need a cell phone. Isn't that what landlines are for? Cell phones are for when you can't access a landline.

If it weren't for the emotional abuse that already occurred, the phone issue would not be a big deal. Sure, he wouldn't need it, but would enjoy it.

But since it did occur, every effort must be made to protect him. IMO, the cell phone either needs to go, or be very strictly monitored. Monitoring is a lot of work, and I'm all in favor of just nixing the phone.

:happynewyear:

It's also a great opportunity to, um, "force the issue"? on communicating through the IM.

If T2L can't explain why or what happened to the phone because she's dark, and if DD doesn't, then how is he supposed to know if he doesn't read what the IM's send him???

If he wants to discuss it, then... well... talk to the IM cus the BW ain't listening!

Emotional abuse is NOT saying "I don't like your mom"-- "Nobody loves me", "boo-hoo I was not invited to a party--why?" or manipulative things of that nature.

< I mean really- we know on MB that type of communication is abusive, but I am talking in the eyes of a reasonable mediator or friend of the court. As sad as that sounds as I type it- I'm afraid it might be true.>

What is really seen poorly is when one parent blocks accesability to a child from the other.

I am trying to be here as a supportive voice, for you. I think you are doing a wonderful job holding your life together for you and your 'chillin-- I was pointing our a red flag I saw-

My ma worked for a divorce atty for 25 years (alas, here in Michigan- so I don't know how this would play out in Calif.) Mostly, Mr H., her boss, represented the wife, and I heard countless accounts of deeds the couples did-

Ma had to account on restraining orders, write letters, file, start actions, claims, take statements- work on emergency paperwork- you name it- for a really small town they were a 'hoppin place.
She knew, by first name, all the town atty's, judges and court people.

After years of listening to what her day went like-- I think I know a little bit of how the friend of the court counselors feel. (BTW- she never said names of the people involved.)

I was just thinking of how this would have been processed though her thinking. Of course, she never said anything to the clients- but she sometimes would tell me- that she thought they were making a mistake.

If you want to ditch the phone- do so. But realize it was started with a contract, has recordable timesheets of usage- on non usage.

IMHO the people here who think you can just destroy this item are not giving you sound advice.

So, take the phone, but take the sim card out and voila, you are accepting the gift, but also, as the parent, restricting your child from what you think might be harmful. Sure, it may have been bought on a contract and non use can be seen, but oh well. The gift was accepted, but it doesn't have to be used. Haven't we all, at one time or another, received gifts that we never use?

And, I STILL agree that you should speak to lawyer about supervised visitation. While bad mouthing the other parent may not technically be considered abuse, it's not something that a child advocate would look favorably or lightly upon.

And, that's my $0.02.

You know I wasnt actually serious about nuking the cell???

It might hurt the microwave


I do think the custodial parent has a right to make resonable restrictions on the use of the phone, cell or landline. Children are not available to a WS whimsical fleeting need for contact. If they want the contact at any time, any day, they could just get thier heads out of their buttocks, and go home

When I signed my LSA, I was given a booklet about childrens right, not just under NZ law but also under the world childrens rights rulings.
It stressed several times that "It is not ok to bad mouth your spouse in front of the children", and that "the children love both their parents and saying negative things about the other parent is hurtful and confusing for the child." It also goes on to say that the child advocate services would frown on reports of this behaviour.

Just chiming in... My WH got my two older kids cell phones this summer before D-day and I still think it was part of his plan to stay in contact with them as much as he (if you follow my thread, he's a pretty entitled WH).
The only problem we ran into was when he would try to bypass the IM or set up visits with the kids directly, which I had to set limits on .
Right now neither of them can find their phones, so that has made it a moot issue, but I try to stress all the time he can reach them on the land line.
I don't want him accusing me of keeping the kids from him, but they don't want a lot to do with right now.
BF439

BTW yes you guys I know you were all kidding. That's one thing I do have and its a sense of humor.

OH BOY OH BOY...read past my post to Barbiecat. H is at it again.

Barbiecat, I understand where your coming from, and you very well may here things that can be of benefit because of the experience you had. I am not discrediting you for that. But DS10 needs protection. I have encouraged him to talk to his dad or tell him when he is upset or why he does not want to visit or talk and he says NO MOM I CANT. DS10 is a fireball and very big for his size. He is only 10 but he looks me in the eye wears mens 32 pants and 7 1/2 size shoe. But inside he is nervous, has anxiety, and cannot for the life of him tell his dad anything. Yes he loves his dad and I tell him his dad loves him and that this is not a DS10 and daddy thing its a daddy and mommy thing and he did nothing to cause it. But even having to say why its mom's day when his dad says what do you mean moms day you live with her, makes him nervous. Partly because in his gentle soul he is very very upset with his dad but does not want to hurt him in the same breath and he feels responsible for hurting his dad by saying its moms day.

So lets escalate the matters shall we so that we can all see how H is acting and is careless towards my kids.

Today H was sent by the IM's communication by me stating the financial needs and a 3rd copy of the visitation schedule so he does not need to ask my children of days he can visit and stress them out by having to say moms days or dads days. They have expressed they don't want to be in the middle. It very straight to the point and no emotions just facts.

Ok quick break, Am I within reason to set a visitation schedule? I mean we shouldn't be expected to wait around and guess should we? I chose days I knew would be easier geographically for my H to see the kids(still thinking about him). I knew Tuesday's and Wednesdays would be pretty hard for him so i chose Monday and Thursday. And so he would not have to give up his only day off and drive and hour to get here I thought it would be fair to give him rotating Sundays and Saturdays. I wanted to be fair in setting them up.

Okay back to the lovely story so I have been cleaning all day, garage, back yard, closets etc etc. and when I do that I turn on music and its pretty loud so I can hear it while Im in the backyard, it relaxs me and makes chores fun.

So we didn't hear the phone call at 3:52PM to the HOUSE PHONE. Well he then says he f'in genius you know I can't be to the house on certain days to visit how many f'ing years do i have to f'ing tell you this. And I should have a detailed f'ing list of the bills and I don't know who your IM's are and if they are your sister or whatever. blah blah blah.

Okay you see the lack of care for my kids. This was on the home answer machine. Now what if DS10 heard him talking to me that way? Dear God! He could have called my cell phone but NO he says it on the house phone.

So he is pissed that I have scheduled days, and I know they are days that are easier for him, and he is pissed that i have financial needs and he wanted a list.

So Neak Dawhling I am going to be calling you this evening. Need to run some stuff by you.

Had a good day, felt okay now i am feeling anxious again. {{{{sigh}}}}

Please save that recording of your husband's message.

You already know this, but I'm going to remind you. When I was actively wayward, I was truly not in my right mind. My ability to make sound decisions had been competely irradicated. My previously sound judgement was gone. It wasn't just a little less and it didn't just come and go...it was gone. I've kept up with your entire thread. You have some remarkable help here. I just want you to know that the man that is your husband now, is NOT your husband. The man that was your children's father, is NOT the same man now. Please continue to protect yourself and your children by staying in a solid plan B.

Now about this phone thing. I know you are just gathering some feedback, but please remember he hasn't given your son a phone yet. To me it's just WH trying to create drama through DD. I did some of the same wacked out things. If he follows through with the phone, I'm sure your son can help you come up with some boundaries that he creates with you so this is not YOU trying to be controlling. You may even find that your son doesn't even want it on. The one time that the phone would be very useful is when DS is with WH, so that DS can contact YOU and you can contact him. It might be a blessing in disguise during those times.

It so great to hear from you as I go through this as you have been there.

As far as the phone yes I am not going to freak out until it happens and I really like the idea of having DS10 help come up with the boundaries. He to knows his dad is not his dad. I can kinda explain that way, for his protection. We can throw around ideas together he may feel like he is apart of it and I would like the phone on DS10 when he is visiting with WS. I think he would agree to set times and boundaries actually. I think maybe just the last 2 hours of the evening might work okay too.

Yes I am saving the recording but I hate to keep saying this but I live in California and they don't care about much but I am going to save it.

And actually the reminder is good as I swirl and forget. When he does this stuff I just want to say forget it I quit! Its so hard to hold on, truly it is. I hang on and I feel like I have no real guarantees we are getting back together ever.

DD17 said she had a long convo with her dad last night(New Years Eve). He called to talk to them and when DS10 saw she was talking to dad he turned around and left the room he didn't want to talk.

I questioned him and he gets annoyed with me all the time and says mom what do you think? He should be here thats why I'm mad. Anyways I didn't have to monitor last night as DS10 was not willing to talk. DD17 told H that DS10 did not want to talk he wasn't doing well because its a holiday and your not here and she said he replied me neither and she said fix it then and he said the usual you mom has stuff she needs to fix crap. She said they talked for a LONG time but we stopped there.

I cannot understand why I am the one needing fixing. Did you say that to SMB? Did you feel she was the cause of the affair? Did you blame her? Just wondering.

Yep, that was the first 1/4 or so of the message...

FTR, I have advised, and T2L agrees, that the best response is none at all. Pretend it never happened. (Except for saving a record of it in the Notebook of Doom.)

WH does not like PB. The more time that goes on, the more he does not like PB.

Meanwhile, T2L sails on like a queen.

I prefer to call it "my handy-dandy" notebook.

Can I just vent that I HATE the active wayward mindset.

Okay.

Better now.

The recording may not be admissable IN COURT but if you ever have to do a home study, it'll go A LONG WAY in proving which environment is better for the children.

Trust.

We played VD's messages to the person doing the homestudy and they were mentioned in her final writeup (which ended up favoring us).

The blame game is standard active wayward babble. Every wayward I have seen on these boards, including myself, have all blamed their spouse. In addition to the blame, we re-write as much history as possible to make ourselves out to be the martyr in the marriage. Pretty sick and twisted are active waywards!

My wife was never the cause of my poor choices, she was only the scapegoat. She prayed my soul out of he11 and back into Gods light.

I pray your H is broken as well and restored to Christ soon.

Remember how God sees you, "He has covered me with clothes of salvation and wrapped me with a coat of goodness, like a bridegroom dressed for his wedding, like a bride in jewels" (Isaiah 61:10)

Thanks for that. Sometimes you really start to question yourself. Maybe I did cause him to do it, but i have past history of the marriage to and I saw how hard I tried to make him happy for over 24 years and how perfect I tried to make everything and i see now how wrong that was and how he can't be happy even if happy bit him in the face. No i was not perfect, but in comparison to some of the marriages I see i was a decent wife. Funny I was remembering him saying only a few years before, and actually he said this on a few occasions, how he showed someone a family picture in his wallet and told them he was very happily married.

I think the he only has 2 chances of happiness at this point, 1 is God bringing him to the very end of himself, delivering him emotionally and humbling him so he can be free and 2 returning to the marriage. Its very sad, I know his end if he does not get it together. His mother, who has done the very same thing numerous times, is a lonely old somewhat bitter woman who is in a dead relationship and has had strained relationships with almost all her kids. Except now of course a renewed and good relationship with my H who hated her only months ago but now loves her since she told H she would support whatever decision he made.

I am truly trying to pray for him. To be honest I can barely do. I am hurting and angry too. I am unsure of how long I can keep fighting for the marriage. I love him and miss him but not that guy who is in his body now. And then now i am at the point where so much more than the affair is at play.

Trying to stay as dark on my side as possible, trying to occupy my days and keep busy but the future is definitely gnawing at me. DS10's future and possible custody issues worry me, if i have to file. At this point he has given us finances for 9 months. If he continues I can stay in this holding pattern and not file anything for DS10 for years. The only reason I would have to file is if he stops paying. {{{{sigh}}}}

Well y'all tomorrow is 7 weeks of Plan B and the 23rd of this months will 9 months from dday. 9 months, i can't believe this nightmare has been going on for 9 months.

I hate their mindset too, but can i say I hate there bloody mouths and the venom that comes out?!?!

Yeah here in Cali I doubt the recording would be admissible and I am not even sure they would do a homestudy. I just wish so badly we were a fault state or there was something I could do to keep OW away from my son if I get to the place where I have to go to court. How did states become fault states does anyone know that? I mean I can get signatures darn it and get something on a ballot, I mean how do you go about that?

Anyways, that's 2 tries at direct contact so far in 1 week. But Yeah the information he was ranting about was already sent to him on Dec 3rd via email via the IM's. I thought so. Were not going to reply for a week to that nasty little message.

Or at all.

He can shove it sideways, imo.

I know it'll make no difference at all but....
If he really wants someone to shout at, give him my number and tell him I'm your IM.
I would be very surprised if he made an international phone call to rant about the sitch

@ Mr T2L

for goddess T2L