As you fight this war, please understand that not everything will go exactly the way you plan. There will be some surprises. In this case, it was a pleasant surprise, as I will go into next!


Document, document!! This is beautiful. And all of this shows that your wife is the classic WW, following the WW Handbook to a tee!!! Which means, the plans in place here should be VERY effective.


While you dont mention your response to this, your response hopefully was (talking to your daughter): "Honey, it is 12:30am and you should be in bed. We will talk later. Goodnight." Do NOT be baited in having relationship talk in front of or to your kids with your wife around. She will be in trouble with the court for what she said. If you chime in also, then you lose that ammo AND you also get in trouble with the court. Remember, NO RELATIONSHIP talk in front of the children. And whatever you need to say to them about their Mom's affair, you should do so in private and be appropriate. Remember, she is their mother!


I love fog-babble! Here she is pulling the kids into the middle of her mess by having her daughter ask you about the phone in the early morning hours...and she accuses YOU of hurting the kids. Again, right out of the WW Handbook, page 278, with the chapter entitled: "I am Entitled".


Great response by you. Typical response by her!


Make sure you document EVERY word said. And again, have your discussions with the kids when she isnt around. They wont feel pressured and wont feel like yo uare doing what she is doing...trying to get them on your side!


Have you exposed to the church? Have they begun the process of dealing with a Christian in rebellion?


Good stuff! Keep it up. You should also begin to learn reverse fog babble. For example, when she says "I dont love you anymore" you can respond with "well, I dont feel very loving towards you right now either. But that isnt the point."


Of course she thinks that! You have shown the light of day on the vampires and the sunlight burns! You are putting stress on the affair...not trying to hurt her. If she was home with her children last night where she belonged, she wouldnt have to worry about a cellphone!! Do not worry about her angry outbursts. It is meant to get you to back off. You stay calm and resolute.


Okay, what is your next plan. I did read in one of your next posts that you dont think selling the car is a good idea. I looked at your reasons, and I will defer to you. I still say selling it and giving her half would put more strain on her and the affair. But, you are the commander on the ground so will need to make the call. But, make her pay for her own insurance. And tell her that she has 60 days to get a loan or something to pay you for half of the car's worth, or you will sell it.

Keep up the good work. Keep cool. Keep the pressure on. You have more to do.

This bears repeating - straightforward, very logical, no way to argue out of it:

Please tell us you ARE keeping a journal of all events... it is so important!

This is PERFECT!

Deal with the adultery car this way!

Yes, I have a daily log.

Honestly, I haven't yet seen the effectiveness. I'm trusting all of you on the forum.


I don't understand what you mean by being in trouble with the courts. I may be doing something wrong here, too, so let me know. In all likelihood, if there's some wrong doing here, I may be the one who's more guilty. Please elaborate.


Won't help. She basically left that church a couple years ago when they changed pastors. She said she doesn't like the new one.


What is reverse fog babble and how do I learn it?


What more do I have to do besides the car?

OR... it could help her realize even more just what she's giving up by her choices.

As far as her family members, you don't really owe them anything, but what you could tell them is that you are unwilling to finance her affair in any way. Let THEM buy her a car.

The Court's "Rule of Thumb" per se when it comes to the children is "the best interest of the child." There is a term called "alienation of affection" -- one parent tries to turn the child against the other, hides them, badmouths them, tells lies, etc. The courts do not look favorably on this.

Note: there is NOTHING wrong with telling your children the truth about the WS' affair but in an age-appropriate way.

Thanks, but the WW claims she is telling them the truth, whatever garbage that may be.

Something to the effect of:

"It appears that your mother is dating OM while married to me. I do not consider this to be appropriate behavior and I do not consider it to be an appropriate role model for her to exhibit to her children. She has admitted to me that she is involved with another man and this is unacceptable to me."

Agreed.

Scared,

In the end your in-laws will support your WW. Blood is thicker than water. So go ahead and sell the car... while you still can.

Can you get a hold of the old pastor? Tell him what's going on....get him to pay a visit or at least place a phone call to your WW.

The pastor won't be able to change her mind, but he will help to taint her A.

He will make it less "special" b/c she will see it through the eyes of someone she respected.

Reply to DD: "Honey, what could you possibly need or want that I couldn't give you? Or that couldn't wait until your mother came home?"

"But, make her pay for her own insurance. And tell her that she has 60 days to get a loan or something to pay you for half of the car's worth, or you will sell it."

Get way to make her have to realize that you are not supporting her affair.

You put the ball in her court. She wants the OM. Then if the OM wants her he should put up the money to provide for her.

Scared, you would do well to do a search on here, starting in June 2002, and watch what happened to me. The ups and the downs. The doubts I had. I have the benfit of hindsight (and a FWW who has told me how all of these things affected her)...but I can tell you, back then I too was scared and it was hard to see where I was doing any good. Many times, I was ready to give up.

But you need to assess your situation. First, your wife is in an affair and looking for a way out of the marriage. Now, how do you combat that? Well, of course...you dont know. None of us did until it was forced upon us. So, how do you get smart on this? Well ,find out who is the best at combatting this and read and counsel with that person and get smart fast. Now, if there is someone out there more effective than Dr. Harley, I would like to know who it is.

So, you have a wife already headed out the door. She has a man showing her attention. You have no idea how to combat this, but you have stumbled upon Dr. Harley's information and website.

So, what should you do? Should you believe the naysayers...the ones that know nothing about this stuff? Should you do nothing and let her go? Or maybe give the expert a chance in doing what he has done for thousands of other families?


As was brought up before, alienation of affection is very bad! But, what I was talking about is having these discussions with your kids in the room. You see, your kids love yo uand your wife very much. This is VERY hard on them. Now put yourself in their place. If they are caught in a room where both parents are talking about this and trying to persuade them which way to go...how bad is that? Plus, this will ALWAYS lead to an argument in front of the children! So, let her ramlbe in front of them. You be the sane parent, and discuss the truth with them in private. They will feel less threatened by you and that discussion, than the rants of a crazy woman!


Doesnt matter! Is this where you and the kids go?


Reverse fog babble is just saying back the stupid things they say. Such as "I was going to talk to you about coming back until you exposed at my work. Now, you have screwed it up and I am never coming back." Your response? "So, you had decided to come back to your home and end this sordid affair and be where you belong, but because everyone at your work now knows about your sordid affair, you arent going to end it?"

See? To have it repeated back to them makes it sound as stupid as it is!


Well, you should be meeting ENs. You should be documenting and looking for ways to get more intelligence on what she is doing. You should be working on alternate plans, in case she jumps ship (and tries to take the kids with her, for instance). Also, begin reading the threads of success stories on here so you can see the path out of where you are at. If yo uare a Christian, get into church and get with your pastor. For you and the kids. And to begin the process mandated to you by God to help reclaim your wife (we can go into that if you want).

WSs are pretty typical. There isnt much we see new on this site. So, getting smart by reading here will help you understand where she is headed and what she most likely will do.

Go to the kids' school(s) IN PERSON.

Talk to the teachers and the principal, and the counselor if there is one.

tell them this:

Unfortunately, there is a serious marriage crisis in our home. I am trying to keep the fallout on the kids to a minimum. I would like you to keep a specially attentive eye on *name of child*. Here is my personal cell number and my personal email address. Please, never hesitate to call me with any concerns that our marriage crisis is affecting my children. No other man is ever authorized to pick up any of my children from school. Ever.

Then DOCUMENT THIS in your journal
names
dates
and the conversation expressing YOUR concern about YOUR kids and YOUR willingness to be contacted in case of any concern the teachers/staff may have.

I will do this. Do I provide any details (the A) of the serious marriage problem at home?

Also, your replies to the next question may be a little late, but it's 5:45 am and WW is still not home yet. I plan to confront her and say that her actions and behavior are totally inappropriate and inexcusable. Would this be considered a LB? What should I say? Should I NOT say that these is serving as a poor role model for our children? I've already told her a while back that she's not setting a good example for them.

We've had a few arguments lately (such as the other night when she came home at 12:30 after I cut off her cell phone), and I have consistently focused my argument on my not accepting and/or funding her A. Again, are these LB's? I also told her last night before she went out that I don't approve of her manipulating our daughter. I think she's turning her against me, like I'm the villain.

I also sent an e-mail to the MIL this morning and essentially told her that there are 2 enemies in this household 1) the sleazy adulterous affair and 2) the Satan-oppressed WW (SOW). I told her that I am not proud of my actions lately and that they are out of character, that I am battling the A, and will not fund it or support it. As far as #2, I told her that's up to God, and that I, two of my devout Christian friends, and two ministers are praying every day that Satan would let go of her. I further added that I find her behavior and actions totally inappropriate and that she is not serving as a good role model for our children, and that I and the W we once knew wouldn't share these values. I also told her that I love (athough it's fading fast) the W I married 16+ years ago and the 2 wonderful children she bore, but that I do NOT love the SOW currently residing in our household. I sent it at 5:15 am and noted that WW wasn't home yet.

Mortarman,

There's not a whole lot I can do for meeting ENs, because she's rarely around and when she is, she parks herself in another room, usually the bedroom she is sharing with my daughter. I figure that if she's going to avoid me, let me take the family room and let her wallow in the confines of that bedroom. Anytime I try to do anything for her, she wants to do it herself. She's keeping me from doing them. All I can do is the little odds-and-ends around the house like keeping the kitchen area neat, washing and putting the dishes away, feeding the cats and changing their litter box, taking out the recycling, tidying up the family room, etc. All the little household items she used to do. In fact, she basically does nothing around the house anymore.

Oh, interesting info I gathered yesterday from my neighbor across the street. The WW has been confiding in my next door neighbor (the hawk) for more than 6 months now, and that the hawk has been spying on me. If I'm talking on my cell phone outside, they can see her standing by the window to listen. They watch when I come and go, and the nieghbors also noticed that whenever I come home, the WW is close behind. That's interesting. I should check the old cell phone records on that one. I think it might be a coincidence, because I don't recall seeing that number before, but I haven't been checking much lately. They spent several hours of the day together yesterday, and WW texted my son a couple times asking if the car is still in the driveway. I suspect they were out looking for a new car, and the hawk would have co-signed for it. She's onto that one, but I don't know how. I certainly hope she's not reading this forum. FYI - the hawk left her family 20+ years ago and all of her children have dis-owned her. Great person to confide in, eh?

Mortarman,

I am seeking a relationship with God, one that I essentially never had. I've spoken with a couple close Christian friends and 2 ministers for guidance and am making great strides. That is what has me making the statements about her being oppressed by Satan. When you say I can begin the process mandated by God to reclaim my wife, yes, I would like for you to elaborate on that. Please do. That is one thing I am trying to do.