My wife and I have now been separated for about 9 months during which I have been making many huge changes in my life that should have been made long ago to prevent the situation. I just recently found out that a few months into our separation that she became close with a male co-worker who is also married. They slowly built their friendship until a point in which the other man asked my wife to kiss him when they were walking together. She did, and they both stopped it immediately, feeling guilty since they are both married. They agreed that it was wrong, and that their friendship had went in the wrong direction and they decided to not spend time together for a month or so to let feeling subside. After that they began to try to continue their relationship as "friends". From my vantage point alone they spent a lot of time together. I was a little suspicious. Just a few weeks ago I found out about the whole thing which they had kept from me as well as his wife until it came out in the open via someone else that knew. I told my wife that I didn't feel comfortable with her seeing him at all outside of work, even though the "romantic" part of the relationship was said to be done with. She thinks that because there was only one kiss and because they have made attempts to stop the romance that she should still be able to have a friendship with the guy. She has since our discussion stopped spending so much time with him, and only sees him outside of work if his wife is present. I still feel uncomfortable about it, even though I believe my wife when she says that the romantic feelings are gone. I have already tried plan A in that I asked her to cut ties with him besides work. I have been working hard to try to show her love so that she is not tempted to go towards him. But she still wants to maintain a friendship. Being that we are still separated and the fragile nature of our relationship, I don't feel like I can use plan B without pushing her further away from me. Any ideas about how I can handle this? As of right now all I can do is give her consistent love deposits, but she doesn't give me much undivided attention to work with, besides when I spend time at home with our daughter, I get time with my wife alone for 2 hours a week to talk together, and for about an hour a week at counseling(which doesn't quite count as alone although it is helpful). The counselor doesn't know about this yet, since we just started and I don't want to make any waves since I am glad that my wife has agreed to go and don't want to endanger that.
I would appreciate any helpful ideas or thoughts on this. Thanks.

Zambo, you have several responses to your thread over on the General Questions 11 forum but I will post my response here too. It would be easier if you had one thread and I would suggest keeping the one over on GQ11 where there is much more traffic. here



zambo, I am sorry you are here. But you are in the right place.

Counseling is useless when one party is an affair. It will be a waste of your time. And that is in a venue with a 84% FAILURE RATE. Marriage counseling is rarely successful because most marriage counselors don't have the slightest notion how to save a marriage. Most are not pro-marriage and are little more than divorce facilitators.

But let me run this scenario by you. A fairly common tactic of a person in an affair who wants to get out of a marriage with as little fuss as possible is to hide the affair and ask the spouse for a separation. They tell the spouse they have "been unhappy for years," "I love you but am not in love with you...." etc, etc, and then ask for "some space" to think things over in order to save the marriage.

Wanting "space" always means "wanting space" to have an affair because if a marriage is in trouble, the logical solution is to fix the marriage, right? Well, one can't fix the marriage if they aren't there, can they? If a marriage is in trouble one works to TURN THAT AROUND. But if someone is in an affair, they want to "get space", ie: get the spouse out so they will be free to carry on the affair.

To my astonishment, many poor gullible husbands go along with this and even will leave their own homes to give the wife some "space" under the illusion that appeasing her will save their marriaqe.

In reality, moving out only enables the affair and puts the spouse in a terrible legal position. Many courts view this as abandonment. It allows the OM to come into the home and take the place of the betrayed husband. They flaunt the affair in front of the children and tell them a pretty story about how this is mommy's new "friend," teaching children that wrong is right.

Does this scenario have any resonance for you?

PA, EA, or XA, YA, ZA. No matter what it's called their must be NC. This means your WW or OM will have to find a new job. The affair partners can no longer work together.

I don't know what most of those 2 letter abbreviation mean.
honestly I agree about the job. but I am not in the position to make these demands at all, since I am out of the house on her request. I am there enough and know her and my daughters schedule enough to know that she is being honest about not seeing the guy outside of work.

acronyms - click here

ANY contact even at work means she is in an active affair.

You have no idea how ingenious at getting time alone together people get in an affair.

I really doubt that they get to spend excessive time together on the job. But considering they may, should I consult a fellow christian brother who works with them(my wife is his supervisor) about what he sees going on? I would hate to get him involved in the situation if I don't have to. I don't want to make it awkward for him to work with my wife. Also, as I stated, I am not quite in the position to make a demand regarding where she works.

Neither is there any possibility of recovery if they work together. You SHOULD expose this affair at their workplace.

as in with this friend, or otherwise? I think outside of christian coworkers the other employees wouldn't really give a [censored]. Most of them are self-centered heathens.

You will not end your WW's affair by being a door mat.

You must get NC. This can never happen if they are allowed to work together.

You need to move back in and be their for your COM.

You do not expose at work by telling co workers. Exposing at work is by sending letters to the CEO, director of HR, and the board of director memebers.

And what, tell them that they kissed. Are there really any legal ramifications. I will probably get told that this is my problem.

stop being so "I can't tell my wife that" and do it! yes you can!

you are a spouse, spouse's work TOGETHER in a marriage.

something tells me not to believe your wife in this A, I am not convinced that there is no romantic involvement, then or now, otheriwse,why would she want him her life so bad? she is essentially picking him over you.

Telling her boss's is not about producing legalities.

What is telling her boss about then? Most of her superiors have no real family values(one of them is a lesbian), so it would only make her mad at me to involve her work.

its about bringing it all out, A's like to be hidden, in the dark, brought out into the light and its like a spotlight with no where to go for the adulters. Its your choice, all of it is, these are tools to help you, and help they do, there are reasons for everything.
Keep in mind its a MARRIAGE BUILDERS site, its all to help and save your marriage. I promise you that no one here will steer you wrong.

what good does "bringing it out" do when those it is brought out to don't care, they may even support her decision to do it?

you don't know what people will think, they may surprise you. No one with any kind of a brain will support her decision.
The people that don't support it will put the pressure on.
All I am trying to tell you is the system here works, if you follow the marriage builder "laws" you will get through it one way or the other, trust me/us.

Many company's, for many reasons have policies against work place affairs. Not all company's, but many.

Why are you willing to assume that WW's company is one that does not care?

Why is it because an administrator is a [censored] she has to feel adultery is ok?

Why is it you are making all of these excuses?

Is it that you are a door mat?

would they consider it an affair, since in many peoples minds an affair constitutes sex, and not a kiss and talking on breaks?

No, you tell them that she is having an adulterous affair. It doesn't matter what they do with that information. The goal here is to EXPOSE because affairs thrive on secrecy. It is like bringing a crowd of people into the crack house to watch the crack heads. It ruins the high when everyone is watching!

We have a template that was writted by BritsBrat, a corporate attorney, that gets right down to the point.

To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is to bring a matter to your attention that may be a violation of your Company's Code of Conduct and/or other policies, procedures and business ethics.

WS and WS are involved in an extramarital affair that is taking place, primarily, in the workplace. Aside from the potential sexual harassment claims this situation presents, it also involves the inappropriate use of company resources and assets. WS and WS are using company time and company resources to further their affair. If you check the call histories on their office and cell phones along with their workstation computers, you will find the two of them are spending an inordinate amount of what should be productive work time to further their sexual relationship.

If you have any questions, please call me at xxx-xxxx. Otherwise, I will anticipate a response from you once you have investigated these concerns and taken appropriate corrective action.

Regards,

BS
_________________________

You wouldn't be asking them if they consider it an affair. You just tell them the truth: this is an AFFAIR. You don't quibble over what you already know to be true.

Most of an affair is nothing more than a fantasy. It exists only in the minds of the affair partners. It is a secret lie between them that they each get something from and so they help to feed each other’s fantasy.

Because it is fantasy and does not exist in the reality of the day-to-day real world, it thrives as long as it remains secret. Once other folks know that it is happening, a good part of it dies almost at once.

For a betrayed spouse there is little one can do that will have an effect on an affair. Learning to meet ENs and avoid Love Busters does make an impact for some, but in most cases it only pressures the affair until the WS can find a way to adjust his/her moral code to include staying married to get the new benefits of the improved WS while keeping the affair alive. This is what is called cake eating around here.

One thing that can put pressure on the affair more than any other single thing that can be done by the BS is exposing it to anyone who might have an opinion of any kind about it. If someone thinks it is right for the WS to have an affair, they will often state it and even if they don't, their actions will show that they are in support of the affair, for whatever their own personal reasons. Those are people that you would now know to not be friends of the marriage and you would understand that they cannot be counted on for support or for help in ending the affair.

And then there will be folks who ARE friends of the marriage and will actively attempt to help end it because they view it as something against their own moral code. They will seek an end to the affair because they know in their own minds that it is wrong. They will offer no support that enables the affair and so even things like help at work can become scarce for the infidels.

Then there will be those that take a dim view of the affair just because of their own code of ethics. These people don't have to be heterosexual nor fine upstanding citizens in order to view adultery as wrong. Even murderous thugs have a moral code and take a dim view of those who prey on children for example. Child molesters that go to prison often end up dead or have to be segregated from the other inmates because of this.

So exposure polarizes folks so that they take sides. Those who feel it is wrong but don’t care for either side still will take a stand. Those who are friends of the marriage will actively seek to bring about an end to the affair and those that are in favor of the affair will make it known so that you can be sure to avoid them if and when you do enter recovery and not end up sharing anything of value in your strategy to end the affair with them and give away an advantage.

Nothing is more dangerous to a lie than the truth...

Nothing is more dangerous to an affair than people knowing about it.

Mark