Hi everyone....

I've not posted in quite some time. I'm doing fine. Ups and downs as expected, but doing o.k.

Summary: WH on second affair. Did plan A then Plan B on first one. Then let WH come home until I suspected more deceit & betrayal. He is back at a "woman's" place where he stayed temporarily after I asked him to leave the first time.

DS has not had overnights with WH ever. Some correspondence between my WH & myself has recenlty confirmed that indeed it is this woman that he is having his second affair with.

WH has asked to take DS over to the house where he is living with this woman so DS can open presents on Christmas Day. I asked him if OW was going to be there. He said No. That he didn't want to have WH deal with that right now.

This just confirmed my suspicions and angered me. I e-mailed him to ask him if "SHE" knew that he was lying and cheating on her while he was "TRYING" to get back with me. If SHE forgave him just like I did. And No wonder he needed to scramble out of HER place so quickly last year to come back home. WH never responded back to my e-mail. I confronted him with the truth and like the coward he is he not responding.

So.....my gut turns upside down at the thought of DS going over there. How do I know that SHE won't be there. He's lied to me so much. My job as Mom is to protect my son as much as possible and filter out the bad. Filter out situations that expose him to Evil.

I want DS to see his Dad on Christmas Day. Here is my thought:
I don't see any chance at recovering this M. I don't want to see or talk to WH, but I also want DS to have a nice Christmas. I keep thinking that what will make DS happy is to have WH come here for a couple of hours so DS can open presents. It will also give DS the opportunity to show WH what Santa brought.

I could go upstairs and watch a movie while WH was here.

I just don't want DS going over to that place.

so ....thoughts?

Kim

Kim,

I am so glad to see you around, I wish you had a better update.

Ahhh the joys of the broken family Christmas, I am dealing with that on my end also.

I see no reason for your WH to pick up DS, drag him over to the lair, let him open some gifts and be quickly returned home, that makes no sense. Plus, it is hooey to think that OW won't be there, why wouldn't she be there.

It seems logical that WH wants to use Christmas to play happy family with your DS and OW and I agree that there is no reason for you to agree to that.

I think your idea is fine (especially since it sounds like from all your emailing back and forth, that you are not in a dark plan B, not that I'm bashing you, I understand).

Tell your WH that he can come to your house, DS will want to show him his new stuff and kids hate having to leave their home when they just got a ton of new toys.

BUT, it seems there have been a few posters asking about how to deal with the WS on Christmas and the concensus seems to be that no recovery = no Norman Rockwell playacting.

I've had exWH here every year since D-Day, except for the one year that he chose to spend with OW instead of his kids (which he has NO recollection of and swears he has never missed a Christmas). If you go that route, I wouldn't hide upstairs, I would prance around like a Martha Stewart/Victoria Secrets model, all beautiful with the cookies and the wonderfulness!

Hi there Jean!

You sound great! Yeah, wish I had a different update too. But, that's the way it goes...I feel like I have been playing too nice, letting WH off easy when really I need to tell him like it is. Hence the e-mail back to him letting him know that I am completely aware of what he was trying to hide all along. I am tired of letting things just get swept under the rug.

I could definitely do the Martha/Victoria Secret thing. What a strange combo!! Although my hair needs some highlights touched up....But, I don't want to send the message that I am attempting to lure him back home. I only want him to know let him know that he screwed up and can no longer have any part of me.

Yes, it would definitely make DS much happier. He should not be exposed to the Shack.

I do not know how WH will respond to this proposal. They are welcome to go out together for dinner as usual to spend some alone time together.

Glad to hear from you, Jean. Sharing your past experiences with me sure does help.

What do you mean by "no recovery = No Norman Rockwell playacting" ??

So, what are you doing for Christmas?

Kim

Just that pretending to be "sunshine family" (remember those Barbies?) to placate a WS doesn't do any good. People say they are doing it for the children's sake, but other's say it hurts the kids in the long run since it prolongs the affair. If the WS always thinks they can step in at family time, there is no reason to stop "affair time".



You're right, no luring, no "see how nice I can be if you were home", just wafting around the house emitting "I can't help but be this wonderful, it's just who I am" vibes. (Remember the "Don't hate me because I'm beautiful" shampoo??-sorry for all my 80's references, I must be feeling old today!)

As far as my Christmas, it will be the first Christmas morning without the kids since the D was final. It has been a mess and the kids aren't happy but I tried to let the kids do any negotiations and I think they have it worked out to their satisfaction. They don't want to spend Christmas morning with him and his live-in GF but I am not going to get into with him.
I wish I could step in and make it all better, but in a few more years, they will have more say so in where they spend their time.

I could do all sorts of griping about exWH and the negative impact he still has on us... but what would be the point. He is just a weed I deal with, or deal around and I just keep moving along.

So all is well, nothing earth shattering new. The girls are good, getting huge. My 11yo DD is as tall as me and wears a size 9 shoe! She is going to be an amazon! The 9yo is her father made over with the same attitude, but you gotta love her!

I hope you and DS have a wonderful, wonderful holiday!!!

Hi all - Hope you had a wonderful Christmas & Safe New Year Celebration!!!

Well. Here is the latest on my sitch. WH came over Christmas Day to spend time with DS & open presents. My plan was to be there, not accessible but a presence. WH came in & told me that I looked beautiful. I told him thanks and went on making cookies. I popped in and out of the room, it is open to the kitchen. I spent a good amount of time in the computer room. WH made his way in & tried to carry on a conversation with me. I tried to keep things short, but he just stayed in the room with me instead of spending time with DS.

He told me he was sorry for all the pain....blah, blah, blah. He told me I was beautiful again. I'm thinking, what is this guy's deal. To make a long story short, he did come on to me. I did give him a hug and a kiss. Things could have gone much further but I told him to stop. He wanted to take me to the bedroom. He told me he loved me, that I was "sexy", etc.

BY THE WAY. I know I'm not doing any kind of a Plan B here and putting myself into a risky emotional sitch.

I felt like I needed to question him about his actions so while DS was out of town I called him & told him I needed to speak with him in person. He came over & said that he had been meaning to speak with me too.

I told him to go first.

OW is pregnant. OMG!!!!!!!! She was just a few days from delivery too. Which means he was sleeping with her in March of 08 while he was still living with me, telling me he loved me and sleeping with me. He said that OW told him if he would "give" her a baby then she would leave him alone. That he told her he would be there for her through the delivery to help out. I asked him "And then what" - He said he didn't know.

I don't know how many times I've heard him tell me "he's sorry.' Its been so much that it doesn't mean anything anymore.

I cried, he cried - he said he wished he could turn back that clock and erase everything. I asked him if his life was where he wanted it to be, was he happy. He said no. That there were so many good memories in this house and that he missed his family.



I told him that sperm banks were there for a reason. She could have gone to a sperm bank to get a child to keep her from being lonely.

We talked for a long time. I am not proud of myself for what happened later.....Things got a little carried away.......

OW was getting induced yesterday. A day when WH promised & had even offered earlier last week to spend the day with DS. He tried to renig on that & I held him to it. I had already planned to be home at 4. I told WH he needed to keep his responsbilities to DS and that he could bring DS home at 4. I did not let him back out.

After WH left yesterday to go be with OW during the rest of her delivery, I called OW's mom. I had done some research yesterday and located her parent's phone number.

After I verified that the person I was speaking with was OW's mom I said: "Well, this is WH's wife. I just wanted to let you know that your daughter's Affair with my H has caused an undescribable amount of pain to me and my son."

The woman was very nice and said that they were worried about their daughter. That WH had told the daughter that he was divorcing this time, that he was really going through with it. I said no, that we were not divorcing and have not filed for a divorce. The mom said that her daughter had just gotten over a very difficult break up with her boyfriend. And that she was told WH was unhappy in his marriage, was separated for the second time and was divorcing. I told her Mom what WH said about OW telling him that she wanted him to "give" her a child. The mom said that No, it was an accident but since WH told her he was divorcing she decided to keep the child.

I said that I asked WH to move out only this past July and that he had been home with me for a year. She sounded very surprised about that. She said that WH is lying to her daughter and they have been very concerned. That WH will just say whatever he needs to say. I let her know that this is WH's second Affair now.

I told the Mom that I still loved WH and that I still wanted the family back together. I told the Mom that WH has not been "faithful" to his daughter either and that he told me he "loved me." The mom was not happy. She said they are a close family and she would talk with her family to see what could be worked out. That her daughter was a "good girl" (yeah, if she was a good girl she wouldn't be sleeping with a married man not matter what the situation of the marriage...but I kept my mouth shut on that one. seems like the mom likes me & I didn't want to badmouth her daughter)

bottom line: I get the feeling that they do not like this situation at all and they don't like WH. The mom said that WH should come home and work on his family. She thanked me for calling and said that there are a lot of lies and that this situation needs to be dealt with honestly and truthfully.

The mom asked for my phone number - I hope they speak with their daughter soon & tell her truth. I hope my words don't get twisted to look like a wife who will lie.

WH told me yesterday or the day before that her family is worried he will try to take custody of the child. (remember...I had talk WH into having a child with me!!!!) WH said he doesn't want that and I reminded him that he is now financially responsible for two children. He said that OW is very well off & told him that she would be able to support the child. I told him that it didn't matter, she could still take him to court and get as much as 23% of his wages. He is SO STUPID.

I told him he really needed to seek help and suggested he contact a therapist. (this happened the night he came over.) he said he had thought about that and that he would see a therapist.

I asked him why in the world he had NOT filed for divorce. He said he "wasn't ready for the break." Transalation: I know you BS. I know you will stay true to me. I want to have a mistress and keep you too as my own. I don't want you to have a relationship. I don't want another man in DS's life."

Well. That's a lot of info in one post. I know I am NOT following MB's principles. But, I am tired of hiding and tired of not focing WH to answer up to what he's done. He hides from me so he doesn't have to think about what he's done.

I told him that now my stomach was knotted. He said "Believe me, mine is too." He is a man that is dangerous. That cannot be trusted.

Well, here is my next step. I think I need to have a conversation with OW. Her mom asked me if I tried to call OW. I told her yes, but she would never call me back. But I did speak briefly with OW at her office and let her know that WH had a wife and a son at home.

I am going to try to call OW tomorrow while WH is with DS. I want to talk to her and find out what lies WH has told her.

Kim

See how he needs you ? You gave him that fix free of charge. If only you were in a dark plan B he would have to commit to you in order to get the "you" he needs.....

Regarding OW and pregnancy and all that - its the filthy consequences of filthy behaviour. Comes with the turf of having an affair. Plan B would keep you safe from hurt over all that.

Why do you think OW will not lie to you ? Lying is part of being a WS / OP, and if they'll lie to their OPs and loved ones, they will certain lie to the BS.....

I pray you a blessed new year.

You need to stop this, Kim. STOP IT. This is too far gone. Your H has been in this affair for years and has been lying to you the whole time. This "recovery" was always a SHAM. Your marriage has been a SHAM for years.

It is time to go to PLAN D, Kim. This man is going to cause you to lose your mind. Get an attorney and get your financial interests protected NOW.

You need to STOP, Kim. Remove yourself from this nightmare and move home to your family. STOP, my friend.

Kim,

What exactly is the point of you coming here? Your mess has gotten messier. Do you just want us to say "Aw, poor Kim, shucks this stinks", and give you hugs and kisses and make you feel all better?

You need to AT LEAST Plan B, and then I would be sure to cover your hide with a separation agreement. If you cannot get that, then I would file for a D, so that you and your son are protected.

You are responsible for your son, Kim. What the h3ll are you doing?

I agree with Melody--STOP THIS!!! You need to start thinking with that big ole brain of yours and stop allowing your heart to lead the way. Things ARE going to get worse, MORE MESSY, now that there is OC involved.

Protect yourself and your own child. Stop avoiding reality. These plans WORK, Kim, especially at protecting you, from your WH and from YOURSELF.

Consult with an attorney NOW.

Kim, I get the impression that you are very confused and that you let your feelings carry you away. I too think that you should remove yourself from this mess.

I understand that you are tired of hiding and tired of your WH hiding from you but have the last events made anything better? Dealing with your WH just makes the mess messier than ever. Protect yourself with a pitch dark plan B and get all possible legal protection for you and your son. I have been lousy at plan B myself but it is really comfortable when you get the hang of it.

I think that you did right to call OW's mom but I don't think you should talk to OW right now! She has just delivered a baby and is probably quite emotional. I am not concerned about her feelings but please consider that her feelings may impact the baby that she is responsible of. There is no hurry to talk to her, wait for a few weeks and get some peace in your life before you consider that.

So....why haven't YOU done something to make sure that YOU get the 23%?

The first child gets that much...subsequent children don't...no matter who the mother is.

He doesn't sound so stupid to me. He has BOTH of you right where he wants you...and BOTH of you are playing along by HIS rules. Stupid...nope.

You need to stop playing his game by his sordid rules.

Take control of YOUR life and dump his azz.

committed

No. I didn't write what I did to try and get sympathy from any of you. I wrote b/c I don't really have anyone to talk to about this right now and writing helps me get through my thoughts. It always has.

Yes. I know I am making a mistake in having any sort of contact with WH. But I feel relieved to be able to say some of the things directly to his face. I have always tried to say things to please him. To make him try to want me back. Right or wrong, I am tired of being the quiet, nice wife who walks on eggshells.

I did Plan B before & I made some mistakes. I am not really trying to do a Plan B now.

I know most of you are trying to help me. But calling me STUPID doesn't help me.

I feel fine right now. I feel somewhat liberated.

Is WH now trying to reach me? YES. Probably to chew me out. I don't really feel like talking to him.

I will take your advice and not call OW right now. I am sure her parents have already talked to her anyway.

I think I am welcome to post here even if I am not following MB's prinicples. But please, don't call me STUPID.

I am not crying here. I feel like I am finally standing up for myself. So, I am NOT asking for sympathy.

Where?

It will be FOUR years this May that this has been going on. You have allowed him to be in the driver's seat this entire time...that is NOT standing up for yourself.

He now has another child with another woman...who can, and probably will petition for child support...to the tune of 23%..and you will get crumbs. That is NOT standing up for yourself.

He is having sex with BOTH of you. That is NOT standing up for yourself.

Calling her Mama is NOT sticking up for yourself. It is staying mired in the muck and being part of a harem. He knows a good thing when he sees it...and he has BOTH of you.

You have been entrenched in this so long that your perception is way off. All this dysfunction has become quite normal for you hasn't it?

The drama would be more than I could stand. I would divorce on those grounds alone. They should add that to the list of reasons.

Crazy making, crazy azz drama.

committed

Kim, you have already done Plan B. Your H came back and SHAMMED you for a year. He was lying the whole time. It was a trick, a SHAM. He has been gaslighting you for years.

Kim, what are you doing? Get out of this mess. Go to an attorney, file for divorce to get yourself legally protected. Get out before this man destroys you with his lies and trickery.

Let him go Kim, he will destroy your very mind, and it's harder to come back after severe mental abuse. You have to accept that it's over.

I know you feel you weren't sticking up for yourself, but you were, and you were very strong doing it. You were doing it with dignity Kim. I know you hate him for what he's done to you and your child, the resentment is showing in you. You are not the same person as you were even 2 yrs ago. You're not stupid, but you are getting sick with the insanity of it all. I did the same thing and I'm still recovering from the mental abuse.

You have to protect your DS, or he will get sick as well. No joke. He needs your mind healthy.

I know how easy it is to just want to fight. Give up the fight Kim. You are better than that. And you walk away the better and healthier woman.


Lady

Quoted by Steve Harley....
"So the purpose of plan B is to protect your mental health regardless of the outcome."

I've realized some may have to stay in plan B forever, in plan b forever with or without divorce. It's what it is Kim.

Kim, no doubt you are reeling from the very recent discovery of an OC. I can imagine the shock of this is like Dday all over again.

Your WH needs to grow up and take responsibility for his actions. If he is going to 'be there' for OW then that implies he is going to remain in a relationship with her for the foreseeable future.

I think the phonecall to OW's mum was a positive thing, particularly as you appear to have kept your cool and not appeared to be the deranged, jealous wife. You have given her the facts and now there is no real need for any further contact with her family.

The most important thing now is to protect your child - financially and emotionally - from the ensuing turmoil. Have you considered posting in the pregnancy/OC forum to get a different perspective from people who have faced the same dilemma?

Don't be his back-up plan. He's not worth it.
TT

Kim,

The weirdest thing happened. When I logged on last night, I thought to myself,

"I have to stop coming to MB, I need to stop labeling myself by my failed marriage. But, I want to see how some people are, people like Kim and hurtinginok and the 'classmates' from my D-Day".

And here you are!

I may project some of my own crap on your situation, so bear with me.

One of the things that has always 'stuck in my craw' about my situation, was the lack of closure. There has never been a cordial corversation, I never had my exit interview, I have no understanding of Ex's point of view other than what I have convinced myself to be true.

You have been getting your exit interview for three, almost four years now. Let's look at what you know:

1. He can live with you while carrying on affairs, lying to you every day.
2. He will be sexual with one woman while another woman is days away from giving birth to his child.
3. He is not very bright, financially speaking, your finances, his trusting OW about child support, the refi on the house etc.
4. From what I have read, he is not "Dad of the Year" material, even dealing with the limitations of being a divorced Dad.
5. He has been saying he is sorry for years, but has not changed his behavior at all.

The above list is all factual, correct? That is not open to interpretation, correct?

Now for the BS interpretation part, and I think it all goes back to you being "the mommy". He keeps screwing up and you still let him back in, make him a bowl of tomato soup and grilled cheese sandwich and let him know you love him no matter what. "Come on honey, bring me your dirty clothes and we'll figure ou how to get you out of this mess".

Kim, he won't ever "Man Up" until you do. If he was your son, what would you do? You are teaching your son about personal responsibility, how about some of that tough love for you WH?

Hmmm, scratch that, it is not your job to raise that man anymore. It is your job to say No More. If anyone, your brother, your son, your neighbor, came in to your house, strung out on drugs, tore up your stuff and stole money from your purse, how many times would you let him back in without him peeing in a cup first?

I am not telling you to stop loving him, you can pick your own misery on that one. My divorce is almost two years old and I still have so much healing to do. It will take as long as it takes.

But, please, get something legal done. There is no logical reason for you to be legally married to this man.

What bad thing will happen if you file for child support and divorce?

Oh and another thing,

Hi Ladysheep! I got to "see" two of the alums of my D-day class in one thread!

Kim, it is painful to watch you prolong the pain like this.

He is among the SCUM of the EARTH, IMO...

He is EVIL..bad, bad, bad...

Hon, he treated you like a HO...