Ok, we're D-day + 2 weeks. Things are going as well, if not better, than I could have anticipated. WH is sincere in his efforts to rebuild. I've purchased SAA, HNHN(Parents) and 5 Steps to do after we've both read both books, WH is on board with the books.

I'm about 2/3rds the way through SAA. I understand Sue's dissatisfaction due to her EN not being met but I'm not seeing any discussion/accountability about why Sue never let Jon know she was dissatisfied in the marriage and that's why Jon felt so blindsided.
He thought they had a good, solid, safe marriage and Sue never told him otherwise.

I feel like Jon. I *thought* I was meeting WH ENs. WH wasn't meeting all mine either but I thought I was getting enough from him to make it worthwhile. Yes, things were hectic with our kid's needs (both have SN), his work, some negative external events (death, finances). To me, while our marriage might have not been bright and shiny, it was solid.
We rarely fight, we laugh a lot, we sleep & snuggle in the same bed. We hug & kiss every day. Maybe not with the passion of newlyweds but there was that connection that I thought meant "we" were ok. While we both had individual interests, we also had shared interests which we would do together when we could.

Now, I know there has to be a lot more deliberate effort put into ENs and spending time together but I'm still stuck on why the heck didn't he give me some kind of heads up that he was so dissatisfied, he'd have an affair. He has been down in the dumps lately (and on anti-ds for several years) I would go to him frequently and ask him what was wrong. He always said it was something external (work/$$$/kid stress). I'd directly ask him if it was me. No. I'd directly tell him if you need something more of/from me, he needed to let me know so I could do better. I promised him I would listen. He promised he would tell me anything I needed to know. He promised he loved me, he promised it was just external forces.."we" were ok.

Now in the post-mortem phase, my biggest question is why didn't you give me a sign you were unhappy?? I understand (now) why he was unhappy, what ENs weren't being met. But I don't understand why he wouldn't even give me a chance to make things better. Why he felt I was so unreasonable that even though I was asking him what I could do, he wouldn't tell me.

He agrees he didn't say/do/signal anything. And he says he doesn't know why. He just assumed there was nothing to do to make things better.

How can I fight against that going forward? If he has no idea why he didn't send up any flares that he was unhappy with "us", how can I trust him to let me know if I'm meeting his needs or not going forward? Why doesn't SAA talk about Sue's failure to tell Jon of her needs *before* the affair? If she had and Jon ignored it then it would be a different story. Not excusable but a lot more understandable. I kind of feel like Jon's getting a beating here for not keeping Sue happy but the poor guy had no earthly idea she wasn't.

Lexi

" I kind of feel like Jon's getting a beating here for not keeping Sue happy but the poor guy had no earthly idea she wasn't."

Lexi [/quote]


That was the only thing in that book that I struggled with also. While I understand that Jon wasn't meeting Sue's needs, I felt like Sue was not made to be accountable for her own actions.
Sometimes I thought the reader was supposed to feel sorry for Sue. (which I just was not able to do)

I look forward to reading the answers you get.
Take care

In *most* relationships it seems there is the one who is the affectionate one who wants to be close and the one who wants a little space and has a hard time with emotions.

In my own case, I would ask my W every few days if she was happy being with me and all that stuff. She would say yes. When the A happened I asked her why she would tell me she was happy if she wasnt. She said she didnt know but that she just couldnt really say it.

Imago theory has a few reasons why this happens and they make sense(for my situation at least). Looking at my own relationship and both family histories I see what caused us each to do what we were doing in the relationship to cause each other pain.

But what do I know. I could be completely off base here.

Ok, I should have kept reading. Chapter 10 & 11 did delve into Sue's responsibilities but sheesh, not nearly as much as I hoped. I guess this is a sticking point because WH is going to be reading the book too and I need him to look at his own behavior. I'm trying to fix my stuff but if he doesn't own up to his, it's not going to work.

I feel like i"m on eggshells. I'm working plan A as hard as I can but how will I ever know if I'm doing enough? He always told me things were ok. He acted like he loved me. How can I possibly close the gap in perception of what our marriage was. I though we had a good marriage. Circumstances were crappy this year but I thought we were weathering it together. I still loved him, so very much. He, on the other hand, thought our marriage was so dead, we were so distant, that he needed to look elsewhere. He had lost so much love for me that hurting me wasn't a concern for him.

I know we are only 2 1/2 weeks into this but I'm having a hard time seeing how I can ever regain my footing.

EXACTLY! She is 100% accountable! I don't care what needs Jon wasn't meeting. She had the A! I don't think my Dad had much time to meet my mother's needs for a time when he was working seven 12hr shifts in a row and she was at home with 5 kids! Difference is LOYALTY, INTEGRITY and faith in the sanctity of MARRIAGE! If everyone whose needs weren't met had an A then there'd be nobody left married!

THERE IS NO EXCUSE REPEAT NO EXCUSE for having an A! Self indulgence....is that an excuse? NOOOOOOOO!!!!

Don't you think that in your situation, your WH's A had more to do with his failure to maintain good boundaries than with his lack of fulfillment of his ENs?

I think that WSs tend to re-write history. Also, we blameless spouses keep asking them, "why?, why? did you cheat?"

They find reasons that have to do with the BS rather than say "because I felt the urge to do it and did not stop myself."

Choice: Solid relationship vs endorphins and excitement
that is addictive.

I had a really big problem with Sue's level of accountability in the book as well. It seemed like Jon was a real doormat. I mean the guy worked his tail off on a plan that they developed together and then she cheats on him and blames it on him for not being around enough for her?!? I have come to believe that some WS's (not all) use the BS as a scape goat for their lack of morals and good judgement. Some WS's cannot face themselves and what they have done so it's easier to convince themselves that it had to be due to something the BS did or did not do. It's a load of crap!! The WS is responsible for the A period. End of story.

I agree with Lake about it being more to do with boundaries as well. There are a number of threads here where the BS was completely blindsided thinking that everything was ok then after the A they learn about all of the EN's that weren't being met. Isn't that just a convenient excuse for the WS to use after the fact?

Mindshare

I think most men are shocked or surprised by their wives cheating.

I believe they call it sudden divorce syndrome and there is a very good reason men are very devastated when they are blindsided by their wives "unhappyness".

I haven't read SAA, but I can imagine that Jon is a typical BH who didn't see what was coming.

Many men believe they're good husbands if they are meeting their family's financial needs and are working hard and being good providers. They're oblivious to their wives being unhappy or are slow to recognize that circumstances are ripe for cheating.

I'll be the first to admit that men become complacent and I was guilty of that as well.

But there is zero justification for cheating, regardless of how unhappy you are in a marriage.

Not just men but women too. I was also completely blindsided, thought I understood Wstbx's needs fairly well, thought I was meeting them and there was no indication that I wasn't. Yet I got the "I haven't been happy in years" speech along with ILYBNILWY. He never once said in all those years he was "unhappy" that there was a problem of any kind. My M didn't recover, but this issue is still not resolved with me. Because I didn't know and couldn't see it.

I do believe it's more of a personal boundary issue than anything. WstbxH just didn't have any. I hope in your case your WH just had a temporary lapse in judgement.

Oh, this thread hits my marriage RIGHT SMACK DAB IN BETWEEN THE EYES!

With A#1 and A#2 it was the same. Very little verbal communication that WW was unhappy. Sure, looking back I can examine closely and see the signs. But come on, talk to me....please!

[sorry, I'm a little edgy this morning]

Books on order...looking forward to reading. Actually can't wait.

WW and I are headed to mexico for a "get-away" next week. Just her and me. Her idea before DDay actually