Hello MB,

It has been a while! Many names have changed; unfortunately the sad stories have not. Thank goodness for you loyal experienced posters--still able and willing to give your time and support.

We appreciate you. (Applause)

I’ve been more of a lurker than a poster here. However, today I have come to post a thread, because I feel like my 5 year Recovery M is hanging by one. This site has helped me to understand my BH’s pain and perspective and helped me in some of my own healing. Can it help me again?

MY STORY IN SHORT: My signature line tells the low points of my story. Since D-day, almost five years ago now, my BH and I have been on the recovery coaster with all its infamous ups and downs. The last two years have been progressively better. Less triggers. A little bit of trust. A genuine closeness in many ways. All of that said, my BH still harbors so much anger—parts of him hate me even still. At times I feel so discouraged, like we will not make it. Throughout the start of our recovery, I just accepted his anger and resentment. Obviously, he was justified in feeling anger and hate toward me for the things I did! It still hurt me, but I understood his feelings. I tried my best to listen and hug him and love him through the pain.

But recently, I seem to have reached a wall in accepting his anger. After almost five years of genuine hard work and all my possible attempts at patience and understanding--I am SICK of being hated, mistrusted. I am so FED UP with being the bad guy. Where were you BS at 5 years? When did you let go of the anger?
Ever? Honestly, I know I made my own bed--but I wont accept being the bad guy for the rest of my life.

Actually, what concerns me most is that I wonder if we have just slipped into an unhealthy pattern—rather than a step in the normal recovery process. A pattern where he is the suffering one and I am the guilty one. Where he is angry and hurt one and I am an appeaser. Its hard to cram this complicated M into a few lines of Times New Roman, but do you follow?


I feel like my As have just thrown our internal compasses out of whack. It is hard to tell what is healthy anymore!? (Or did I ever know?)

My goal is an honest and supportive M.

I dont feel like I am getting the support I need.

Can a FWS do a Plan A, Plan B?

How? Any thoughts?

Kind Regards,

Ahuman

I think 5 years is too long to harbor anger. It is something HE needs to work on.

I didn't recover the marriage, and I'm still working out my feelings after 5 years. But then, my ex never made much of an effort to make any kinds of amends.

But I am realizing that it is my job to fix ME.

Okay, so I have been reading around on Plan A and Plan B. The famous Pepperband carrot/stick list for example.

I wonder if this would work for me? My circumstance is different, but I wonder if the technique could still be applied. The goals are really the same: demonstrate that you can be a great partner, demonstrate that the other person needs to be invested in the M or you wont be there anymore (and to protect the love you have left).

Really, I have been Plan Aing for the past five years....my goal was similar to those of the BSs here--to make him come back to our M, to build up his love again, to show him that I have changed, to build some trust, to meet his needs.

But I am not sure that a Plan B would work in my situation. I am afraid of leaving! I am afraid he will feel abandonned again and give up entirely. Also, I am afraid he will think I am doing it to have an A!!

But my alternative is to keep going down this road of Plan A until I am utterly and completely out of gas.

I will have to sleep on it.

Any thoughts?

Thanks Believer. But how do I convince him to want to work on it?

It is almost as if he resents having to work on it. He has said that he shouldnt even have to be in this situation. He hates the choices that he has. Stay in a M with a spouse he has trouble trusting and that hurt him so much, or leave and break up the kid's family....

I think that subconsciously he also resents having to work on A related issues. (For the record, he seems to be willing to work on any other aspects of our life and M...other un A related things that I have needed him to improve upon)....but when it comes having to improve himself on something relating to the A--its like paying another person's debt or something. He just seems to be afraid or feel it is terribly unfair.

And I suppose he wouldn't get any counseling with the Harleys?

I was a very angry BS, but sooner or later, enough is enough. It bothers me that former WW's have to carry this baggage for so long. There needs to be a limit.

I don't think Plan B would be good, but hubby really needs to work on things and be willing to forgive and move on to a WONDERFUL marriage.

How old are your kids?

Are you telling me he is still holding your affair over your head? Does that work for him? What is he getting out of that? How does this dance work exactly?

Plan A and Plan B are for situations where there is an ongoing affair, so it wouldn't be appropriate here.

I have tried to convince him to speak with Harleys in the past. It is a good suggestion, I will try again.

He is quite suspicious of counselors. (I went to a counselor after I ended my A....and her advice was not to tell my BH since the A was over. So my mentioning a counselor sort of raises a trigger....)

Our kids are 9. They are wonderful! Sometimes I am sad to think that they are the only joy left in our M. So sad.

Something triggers him. A film with an A in it or a strong memory linked to where we lived when I had the As. He gets angry and emotionally lashes out. He says cruel things--withdraws.

At times I think we are progressing and we will go long stretches and have a series of closeness--cooperation, open talks, affection. Then bam, trigger and we regress.

I am just so tired.

Yesterday, he went so far as to break something and he had a full out, I dont know a tantrum really. It was in front of the kids! That really scared me and is the reason I am here today.

Does he drink?

Having an outburst like that is completely inappropriate.

Can you support yourself and the kids without him?

You should not tolerate that behavior. By letting him get away with this, he is rewarded. That is bullcrap. Your affair is not a license to abuse you. Check out this article about that very thing:

Coping with Infidelity: Part 4
Overcoming Resentment

Recovery may not be complete

Resentment usually appears when an experience of the present reminds us of a painful experience of the past. For example, if a wife had been abandoned by her husband after a fight on a vacation, left to find her way home alone from Jamaica, the resentment of that experience would pop up whenever her husband walks out the door during an argument. Very often, continuing resentment means that whatever it was that caused the painful experience is still lurking in the background. And it jumps out every once in a while when evidence of it's existence surfaces.

The procedure for recovery that I suggest usually eliminates the root causes of infidelity, and that makes it unlikely that present experiences will remind a spouse of experiences associated with an affair. If the only time you feel resentment about a spouse's past affair is when your needs have not been met, when your spouse is engaged in a Love Buster, or when the Policy of Joint Agreement or Policy of Radical Honesty has not been followed, then it's the completion of recovery that's your problem, not resentment.

Using resentment as a way to control and punish a spouse

I'm convinced that what's kept the resentment of S.R.'s husband alive for so many years is that he has found it to be an effective way to control and punish her whenever she doesn't do what he wants. Whenever they have a fight, he brings it up, and it causes her such guilt that it gives him a decided advantage in winning the argument.

By this time, I don't believe that her affair is the problem that she thinks it is. Instead, it is an issue that her husband is using to get the upper hand in his relationship with her. It probably shows up the most whenever she has been reluctant to have sex with him. It throws her off balance whenever he mentions it, and makes her feel guilty, wanting to make it up to him somehow. He may also bring it up whenever she is winning in a power struggle he is having with her.

What she describes to me in her letter is abuse, pure and simple. There is no excuse for the way her husband keeps bringing up her moment of weakness she experienced years ago. He is disrespectful and abusive.

I suggest that she look him right in the eye and say to him, "Listen Buster, do you love me? Do you want me to love you? Do you want to spend the rest of your life with me? If the answers to any of those questions is 'yes' you sure are going about it the wrong way. You are not doing things that I admire, you're doing things that I find disgusting!"

What if he says, "Fine, then lets just get a divorce and end it all."

To that I would say, "It's up to you. I married you for life, but if you want a divorce, it's your call. If you want to be in a love relationship with me, however, you're going to have to treat me much better than you have been treating me. You must never again bring up my affair, and if you are upset with me, you will have to treat me with respect until we can solve the problem. If you are upset with our sexual relationship, I want us to discuss it as adults and solve it with mutual respect. I refuse to be treated like this, especially by the man I love."

My advice to her husband is to never mention her affair again. It's a good example of one of the enemies of good conversation, dwelling on past mistakes. Whenever you keep bringing up your spouses past mistakes, you not only make your conversations incredibly unpleasant, but it cannot possibly lead to a resolution of a conflict you may be discussing. And as soon as his resentment doesn't pay him any dividends -- no longer helps him get his way -- he will find that it hardly ever occurs to him.

Hanging on to an unpleasant thought because it helps us somehow is what psychologists call "secondary gain." It means that even though the thought is unpleasant, it gets you something you need, so your mind keeps it around for its usefulness. There are many unpleasant thoughts that have this characteristic, and I have helped many people let them go by helping them destroy the usefulness of the thought. Making sure that S.K.'s husband never gets what he wants by bringing up her affair will help him overcome his resentment.

entire article:

He doesnt drink. He is a healthy physically. Hard working, well educated, financially successful....you may be surprised by this temperment issue if you met him.

I can support the kids....but we would need to move from this region.

I truly wonder if he suffers from PTSD. I notice that his head twitches when he gets "triggered". Used to have a lot of bad dreams.

Its amazing. As I write this out, I realize just how serious this is. Surprising what one can get used to...

Ahuman, did you have several affairs?

I would almost be willing to wager that if asked your husband could describe a list of things in your marriage that still cause him discomfort. Press him a little bit on this and see if he feels safe or if he feels that on some level, you just don’t get it.

I am by no means assigning fault here, just making an observation that I have from time to time experienced. For the record, I doubt that he fully understands what it is to live a life as a spouse who once cheated.

As Melody noted, Plan A/Plan B is not designed for your current situation. However, I note that you say you have been in Plan A for the past five years. Plan A is the one-two punch that a betrayed spouse delivers to a wayward spouse of satisfying Emotional Needs coupled with a good dose of Radical Honesty. To me, it has always been much more than just that. I really think it is a lifelong plan or more to the point, a philosophical way to relate to your husband or wife. Keep that up.

I might consider a phone call or two to the Harleys. I think you both need a little jolt to wake up your commitment to each other. I am not even sure that this is an affair issue, I think it might be more of a relationship issue. You may both be forgetting how rare and fragile a relationship can be if it not tended too. I think your post here is a really great start. Give the Harley’s a call, drop a couple of bucks and make your marriage better. Buy him a “Harley Gift Card”. I wish my wife would buy one for me.

“Nothin says lovin.
Like a call from Harley comin,
And Marriage Builders does it best.

Mr. G

Melody, thanks. I will have him read the article. It helps when it comes from a third party.

I have tried laying it on the line like the woman in the article. It gets better and then comes back. But as I write this, I am realizing I have truly put up with some crap I should not have accepted.

I have suggested anger management and counseling, but he hasnt taken the initiative and I dont think I should be the one to sign him up or set it up.

Melody, I had two. One short EA and a long PA....ended it, but then didnt tell him until two years later. See why he is so upset?!

When was D-day for both affairs? Have you ended all contact with [both?] OM? Have you answered all questions to his satisfaction? Have you instituted appropriate boundaries?

Thanks for all those taking the time to reply.

Gotta run. Need to get dinner on the table and give my munchkins some love and attention!

Good night

Only one d-day. I went for the FULL disclosure. Lets just say that I had my own personal epiphany and realized that we would never have a good M so long as I hid a part of his life from him.

I gave all the gory aweful details over a series of several days and many glasses of wine. I even recorded them for him in a long long letter.

Since then--that was almost five years ago.

Truly, the woman in me that had the affairs--seems like another person ago. I was so immature! So much has changed for me, it is hard to explain.

Indeed it does, dear Ahuman, "Make the Call."

Hope you enjoyed your dinner,

Mr. G