Posted on my thread also:


Let’s see. You’re looking for a quick summary? I think you know me better than that…….

I’ll try to keep it short, but I tend to get a bit wordy.

Thank you so much for the compliments on my interactions with WxH. It’s been a long road with many pieces of my heart and mind littering the path to where I stand today.

I really don’t have that much contact with him anymore. He essentially ignores me when I send an email regarding finances, etc. I guess he thinks ignorance is bliss. Unfortunately, what this does is cause me to take a harder line and I go to court to FORCE him to be responsible. This only causes more animosity but I feel it must be done.

Calling WxH about the situation with DD15 and her boyfriend was probably one of the hardest things I have had to do – mostly because it was a hit to my pride, asking him for help. In the end, it reinforced that he is no kind of dad. I will not be asking for his help again unless DDs lives hang in the balance. DDs are old enough to include him themselves if they want him.

The hurt of his nonresponse is no longer there, though. That is such a blessing. His actions and his treatment of DDs and I have completely changed who I thought he was. The man I knew is DEAD. This new “man” that he is has no hold over me anymore.

If I was asked to describe him now in two words they would be “cruel” and “stupid.” I have no use for either.

I can’t say that I am “indifferent” to him as there is still the connection of our DDs, and any time he does something that affects them badly, it still gets my mama bear instincts at the ready. Somehow, I have found a way to keep myself out of that battle. Mainly, it is recognizing that I just cannot change him and what he does. I am the balance on the other side of the scale, sometimes, but I am not in direct battle with him to change his ways. That takes energy and attention that he does not deserve – and a battle that I cannot win.

He does not WANT to change as he sees no reason to do so. That is out of my hands. No amount of tossing and turning and being in anguish by ME will make it different.

I know that has been said over and over and over around here – but where I am now with WxH simply comes down to that. I cannot change him and I have passed all responsibility for his behavior back to him. When and if his behavior changes, my interactions with him may change. Until then, I will live a good life and be proud of myself as a mother and woman.

His punishment will come in the form of living the life he has chosen.

Another thing that really helps, I think, is that I am in a place of POWER. When I asked for his help with DD15, I didn’t HAVE to have it. I COULD handle it on my own, and in the end, that is exactly what I did. When I contact him for finances, if he does not comply, I will go another route. And win. What I ask of him, is not a request. It is an opportunity for him to do things the easy way. If he does not want to go that route, it will be forced on him by a judge.

While there are no winners in divorce, I came out FAR AHEAD of WxH. And he feels it.

I could sit at a table with him right now and it would not shake me. He is a sad, angry “man.” I don’t know him anymore so it is like sitting across from a stranger. I can say my peace, can recognize his lies and anger, and I can let my own words stand for themselves. I don’t have to rebut everything little thing he says. I’m honest and trustworthy but I don’t have to prove that to him.

That's important - I do not have to prove anything to him.

The bottom line is that his moods and his demands do not mean anything to me anymore. I am a woman all my own. Capable and confident – yet loving and warm, too.

It’s in you, too, Luna. Find her.

Fox

Hi Fox,

Wow...what a pleasant surprise.

Thank you for taking the time to gather your thoughts and get back to me. I really appreciate it, especially since I am considering direct discussions with WS to keep some of the costs down (mostly because I really can't afford them). I am counting on the fact that it might be in both of our interest to do so.


I may not be familiar with the details, but I do believe it took a lot of hard work for you to get where you are, Fox, and you deserve to be proud of yourself and everything you are doing with your DDs and your life.


This to me sums it up though... and that the least contact as possible, even with a WxS, is what you seem to advocate.

Thanks for the encouragement. Seeing how some of you are doing 'on the other side' is certainly helpful.

The "other side" doesn't get enough credit, sometimes. With a wayward like mine, the other side is the best place to be.

It is sad that we have come to this, him and I. I look back sometimes and still feel love for the man that was. It's no different than grieving someone that we have lost to death.

Thankfully, I am able to separate who he was and who he is. I still don't get how he has become someone else, but I don't dwell on it anymore. There is no logic to be found in the illogical.

Fox

Except that it would have been a whole lot easier to deal with if the WS had died instead of doing what they did. I'd much rather be widowed.

Having said that, the Other Side is where I would like to see you get, Luna. I see you considering how to interact with your WH. What I want to see is you getting it over with. THEN you can worry about what kind of relationship you want to have with your WxH.

yeah, me too. I meant more the looking back part, though. Like FAR back - BEFORE all the bad stuff.



I see her more trying to figure out HOW to interact with him and protect herself to get it done than she is trying to figure out what kind of relationship to have. Maybe I'm wrong, though.

Fox

No, you had it right. I piled on for a little vent there.

Yeah, I just worry that this can turn into a stall tactic, intentional or not.

If it's easy, okay. If not, and I don't think it will be for Luna, then pay the lawyer to do it. It's what your lawyer is for. Can you ask for WH to pay your attorney fees? Make him suffer. He deserves it. Tell your lawyer to Make It So.

It's better over here, Luna. You've waited long enough. I'm only blunt and pushy because I care about you, Luna.

Hi SD and Fox,


This sounds about right, Fox.

I am trying to interact with WS to see if process of getting to the 'other side' can be accelerated. Once financial affairs are settled, I will decide how much 'contact' I want to continue to maintain.

I had arranged to have a phone conversation with WS, and tried to prepare myself to deal with some 'waywardness', and had it last night. We spoke for over 1 hr and half. My one protection mechanism? If needed to, I could END the conversation. :RollieEyes:

More or less.....inspite of no shortage of waywardness (which believe me is a real challenge NOT to get all caught up in), I think I managed to again, more or less, stay on track... :crosseyedcrazy:

WS still wanting to push friendly co-parenting....and how this (Plan B) is forcing boys to experience a 'divided' loyalty... treating it as 'childish behaviour'.... I said fine if that is how he wanted to perceive it, but since WS did ask and was curious to know, thought he might be open to 'hearing' WHY I actually needed to go to Plan B, and so I did - and spoke MY truth...and yes, although WS at times 'accused' ME of wanting HIM to feel guilty....I sticked to the facts...and if he wanted to take it as my 'wanting to make him feel guilty'...than he would have to deal with that...but I said what I had to say rather than try to 'protect' him from feeling guilty. If HE feels guilty it's because he gave HIMSELF reasons to.

I know that associating BS with guilty feelings, as WS is, may only encourage him to 'justify' his choices...and want to hide behind the OP so...fine, at least now he knew WHY he chose her over me... INABILITY TO FACE THE TRUTH OF WHAT HE DID....GOING INTO HIDING... WS also mentioned OP's name a few times...and it didn't bother me as much as thought it would.

Anyways, among other things, I was able to inform him of some of my concerns related to division of assets, down to smaller things, like, basement full of stuff still there since he left...

Ended conversation with an understanding that if anything else,we both agreed that it would be a good idea to at least reduce the "stuff" in the basement (which is really starting to bug me big time!) no matter what happens, and so I proposed it be an objective short-term. WS suggested that it would be more effective were we to do it together... (both of us avoid this task like a plague!)... so, I offered to work side-by-side with WS to accomplish the task.

He has now also emailed me letting me know that the mortage renewal is ready to sign, and that we could either go together to sign it at the bank, or separately. I haven't yet answered, but I think going to the bank with WS is neutral enough for me, that I may just be open to go at the same time as WS... OR NOT . I am giving myself a day to think it over. It should be fine, particularly since having had our one-hr long conversation. The triggering happens mostly when it's "family-related activities".

I don't know how much triggering I am exposing myself to...but so far, I am OK. Waiting a bit for the "other shoe" to drop by the mere fact of having had a LOT of contact with WS and it's making me slightly... anxious/worried ???? like, what am I getting myself into? ...I am approaching this as a challenge.... a second opportunity to speak MY truth, if not towards M recovery, it should help towards personal recovery (because I can't remember much of what happened between D-day and when WS left...I think I was too much of basketcase to do or say much... and more importantly, WS was on the 'high' of A.... this time, I actually had the impression that WS HEARD some of the things I said...

Sounds like your convo went well, luna.


You are absolutely right, Luna. THAT is your power.


Perfect.

He took it as "against" him because that is how waywards are. It's ALL about them. It is your SHIELD when you need it and that is your RIGHT.


Waywards are so stupid. I don't know WHY they do this. How does SHE have anything to do with stuff in your basement or your kiddos?


IF you decide to do that....be very careful. He is trying to get into "friend" mode with you. To make HIS life easier.


Don't get sucked in, Luna. Is there an advantage to doing it together? If not, then do it separately.

He is trying to be a "friend." Tread lightly.

If you WANT to, I say go for it. Just keep your wits about you and don't get sucked in.

It's business - not a friendship.

Fox

Hi SD,

Cross-posted.


I know SD, and I really appreciate your concern. I am more than willing and happy to join the great 'bunch' on the other side, as I do believe you.

Working at how to get there.

Because before that, there are serious number of details to work out... and I think WS is also willing to invest himself and be on some 'good behaviour' (as much as a WS can muster up) so that we 'move ahead' for everybody involved.....and, no, WS if anything earns less than me so aiming to lower attorney fees and time would be a good thing. Can we pull it off? We shall see. The further ahead we can get discussing it out between us the better.

I can't deny that in my exchange with WS, when he said that M recovery was out of the question, even though it means facing the 'unknown'.....IT's looking better and better....

Working at figuring out, for the sake of the boys, how to best deal with some 'contact' with WS. I have gotten up to being OK with 'talking over the phone'. Next step, how to be in the same room and so on and so on.

All of this though does FEEL SO STRANGE!

Hi Fox,


...by saying that it's time to accelerate process because he had 'obligations'towards OP!



Mostly, Fox...it may be the only way for me to make sure that it get's done.

About going to the bank together...


Yes, I do have to be very careful... and unless I see an advantage to seeing bank rep together, I will go separately.

But if I do, I may get more collaboration as I then intend to propose that we meet with Accountant... as I want both us to be there to make sure WS HEARS what accountant says about fiscal impact of contemplated transaction so that WS cannot DENY later on not KNOWING! This is the kind of thing that will help a lot in the decision-making.

The question still remains? How much 'contact' with WS can I take? WS can be all over the place...with accusations.... justifications.....and IT IS VERY VERY demanding to stay focused!

I need to be very careful...learn HOW to listen closely to my 'inner voice'.

...and you guys to keep telling me to 'tread' carefully the muddy wayward waters.

Yes, tread carefully. It's every wayward's dream to have one big happy family. WS gets OP AND gets BS to use as they see fit until BS is no longer serving any purpose. They always want BS to be happy for their new-found soulmate

Get in, get it done, get out. With as little contact as possible.

Not trying to threadjack, but just because I wondered...why not let them see you as a friend as long as they know that the best friend should also be the spouse. Just something I wondered about.

Thanks

Because they will use the BS to their own advantage and then leave them by the side of the road all over again.

It causes the BS to be set back in their healing to continue to see the WS. Especially when the WS is still doing what causes the BS so much pain and anguish.

My goodness Luna, you have been busy these past few days. Without much experience in this area, it appears to me that you seem to be moving along, in a healthy, conscious, careful and thoughtful process that is about taking care of you, walking through your timeline and having your own personal power.

Painful... be careful that it doesn't pop up when you least expect it and bit you in the proverbial tuckus.....

Happy New Year my friend. I love you..

Hi Luna,

I am sorry to learn about your Father. My blessings to you and your family.

....and best wishes for health and happiness in the New Year.

Sounds like your life has taken some recent steps in a new direction. You sound really good.

Bon continuation!

Ahuman

Sorry, I have been a bit busy. Just want all of you to know that I do read your posting and appreciate your input.

For now, I have decided to go the bank and sign document separately from WS.

I am out of my 'comfort zone' as it is, as I have communicated to WS that I am open to work 'together' on getting rid of stock in basement, and should he want to discuss anything directly with me, to SETTING a time to do so (by phone). I suspect this is putting WS out of his 'comfort zone' as well, and he may choose to Plan B me in return. We shall see.

Ahuman? It's been awhile. Hope you are doing OK.

Hey Luna,

How are you doing girl? Did you go to the bank.

I MISS YOU....

Hi Queenie,

Yes, I went to the bank and signed document BEFORE WS's appointment.

I think I need to minimize contact with WS because, honestly, I don't particularly ENJOY exchanging with a WS, whose PERSPECTIVE of reality is really really OFF and can be quite demanding. One of the things that surprised me in last phone exchange with WS is how MUCH entitled WS feels about TELLING ME how I SHOULD feel :crosseyedcrazy:

We continue with mediation session, the next one is scheduled for mid-february. I prefer doing it with a third person there. It should help to keep discussion ON TOPIC for both of us.

Been a bit busy, so at times I am more of a lurker, even though I think of everyone here OFTEN during my day.

...going off to check some threads and catch up.

I think that this is a good strategy, Luna.

Appreciate the support, SD.

The one clear 'common' objective WS and I came up with to end our long conversation on a 'positive note', that I would also find helpful, was re the pile of items I prepared in the basement for WS to 'review, pick up and take/remove/recycle'...

...today, WS took the time to do it, and I 'thanked him for it' ...which I am sure he appreciated as it temporarily alleviates him of some guilt.

...my plan is to....continue making a pile of items... for WS to continue to 'review and take/move out'.

It's a 'drop in the bucket'....but hey! lest we forget... when dealing with a WS, better that expectations not be too high!