Marty;

I had to add this: even if this A is not physical (although it probably is), it is still an addiction. Think about the stories you hear about drug addicts sneaking off to the bathroom to get their fix. It’s not much different than texting an affair partner. Contact with a lover gives a bio-chemical sense of euphoria and it lasts for awhile until she needs another hit. That’s why there is no other way to end an affair (for her anyway) unless it is exposed. The OM can end it, but he likes what it’s doing for him, and he’ll keep it up as long as she’s willing. I believe affair partners are like crack dealers and they get off on the control.

If you confront now before she is ready to confess, she will deny it again. However, if she’s anything like me, it will eat away at her. Each time you confront her, you are forcing her to lie again. Eventually, she might crack.

Does your wife have a samsung or motorola phone?

There are readers for those phones that don't rely on the SIM card. They read the internal memory of the phone.

This stuff isn't the same for a BH.

If I had found out (or if I DO find out) that my wife slept with OM ONE TIME after I busted them, I would divorce her immediately. I at least have that much dignity and self-respect left.

I feel like I'm halfway to having a vagina for taking her back as it is...Plan A? Might as well give me the high heels to match my purse.

It is degrading to a man. You might save your family, but at what cost to yourself?

No, it is an LG Rumour, and I just checked the specs and there is no sim card in it. I found a company, brickhouse security that has the ideal device. I wish I could use it, as I know that would tell the story....

I agree with post above from MrsZ that it is like an addiction. We do watch intervention on TV, so that is a context WW should be able to relate to....

Krazy,

It appears that none of the BW's understand what you describe and painfully few of the BH's ... but for those of us who do ... WE BELIEVE IT WITH EVERY FIBER OF OUR BEING.

Marty,

Honest question ... what is your gut reaction to knowing that your WW is having an affair with OM?

There is no right and wrong answer ... we are all wired differently.

...but, IN YOUR GUT ... are you more tempted to draw a line in the sand and end the A immediately, even considering the risk of driving her into the arms of OM?

... or, IN YOUR GUT ... are you more inclined to give her time to come to her senses and pick up the pieces from there?

There are two distinct camps here at MB concerning how BH's should proceed and the main determining factor is the BH's personality ... so like I said ... there is no right or wrong answer ... just which way Marty feels more comfortable.

You see, I am EXACTLY like Krazy. I just KNEW that I loved my WW, but there was NO WAY IN HE11 that I was going to SHARE her with ANYONE, regardless of the risk of ending our M. I would MUCH rather be divorced than disrespected further, and still fully believe right down to my soul that I acted appropriately on D-Day, 18 months ago.

However, there are other BH's who believe that they were just as correct to suck it up and wait out their WW's ... and likely, we were BOTH correct.

They wouldn't be able to live with themsleves if they had pushed their WW's away, and I wouldn't have been able to live with myself if I had allowed the A to continue "with my knowledge" ONE SECOND LONGER.

Just let us know what your thought process about the matter is, and we'll try to help you from that perspective.

Rev,
Brilliant summary!

Mr Z is just like you and Krazy. He wanted the hard evidence, but he was right about his gut feelings and he was sick of being made a fool of. Also, Mr Z is a war veteran, and I was sickened by my own disrespect towards him.

I wonder if Marty's wife feels that way too, since he is a charitable, upstanding guy. Maybe her better self will come through in the end. Let's hope!

My honest gut opinion is the first one, hands down. I can't tolerate any sharing of someone I love. I am a very proud, loyal man, and I have taken a great deal of pride in taking care of my family as best I can. Sure, I am nowhere near perfect, but I know what my shortcomings are and am absolutely working towards correcting these to ensure I can better meet my WW emotional needs. I've hit a bit of a snag now since "the text", but until that point I was busting my buns doing all I can to get the R headed back in the right direction. When I am strictly looking at the husband/wife side of it, I am very serious in either stopping the A immediately or risk a quick and decisive end to the relationship (I still have trouble using the D word). The only problem though, at least at this point, is the fact we have kids and that is always part of the thought process. I know anyone who has kids can relate to how deep your love is for them. But I guess I have to learn to take that out of the equation or at least take a wider look at the whole picture.....

This is easy for me to say, but remember that couples with kids get divorced all the time, and everyone survives.

Well survival is the bear mimimum Krazy.

Many studies say they thrive in an intact family. An intact family is the best option.

Sweet Dreams, Baby Doll. ???

Did you ask your W what it stood for?

Might be interesting to ask her now, and see how long it takes her to answer it.

Marty,

I know kids complicate the situation. However, we've seen multiple BH's try to R "for the sake of the kids" and what happens is they condemn themselves to a life of limbo he11, while they stuff their feelings down and WW continues to disrespect them for years.

Eventually it all blows up anyway, and instead of the kids having a relatively stable life, with two relatively sane but SEPERATE parents, they are forced to live in an environment where the two people they love most hate each other ... not healthy at all.

So YES, for the purposes of this situation ... you need to take the kids "out of the equation". Your WW has already effectively left the family ... if she won't recommit, its up to you to protect YOURSELF and your children from her waywardness.

If you truly feel like you expressed in the post above ... I would issue an ultimatum to my WW:

"WW, we both know you're having an A with OM ... don't insult my intelligence with more lies. I love you and want to try to recover from this, but for us to have a chance, YOU must have no further contact of any kind with OM FOR LIFE. Basically, its me or him ... I LOVE YOU, BUT I WILL NOT SHARE YOU ... and you need to make up your mind right here and right now. Recommit to our M and agree to NC or pack your bags and leave our home."

From what you describe of yourself, I'd say we view the world fairly similarly, and 18 months ago I issued basically the same "I love you, but will not share you" ultimatum.

My FWW (FogFee) posts here occassionally ... feel free to look up her posts and see her response (in hindsight) about how this ultimatum shook her out of her self-absorbed state long enough to realize what was REALLY important to her. She has also posted about how this was EXACTLY the right action for me to take in our case. Granted, we are older and minor children were not an issue with us, but I can honestly say that I would have acted in the same manner even if there were children to consider.

This is simply a matter of "right and wrong" and it is wrong for a BH to allow his WW to disrespect him further by allowing her to continue in an adulterous relationship after he has knowledge of the A. Keep in mind, I'm speaking of the BH's actions only at this point ... the WW has always been wrong in her adulterous actions and the BH can't change HER ... he can only protect his boundaries by refusing to tolerate the level of disrespect by allowing his WW to remain in the marital home while she continues in her adulterous activities.

ITA with Myrev & Krazy.

I needed her begging and pleading for forgiveness or it was out the ****edit**** door.

Some of us less refined men have a need to maintain some sort of internal pride even though we feel like ****edit**** for taking them back anyway.

Marty, you are right to take a long look at the WHOLE PICTURE. Your children are a huge part of that picture. Does that mean you tolerate her abuse for the children? Hell no. That benefits no one. But does that mean its smart to give a DETACHED spouse an ultimatum and toss her out the door? HELL NO. Doing so only throws her into the arms of the OM and will likely end your marriage.

But divorce destroys the lives of children, and as their father, you have an obligation to take that into consideration. There is much, much at risk here than just your marriage and your PRIDE. Throwing her out might feel good to YOUR bruised pride, but there others who will be effected by such an act: the well being of your children. Your kids will never be the same. Just as it would be a mistake to stay in an abusive marriage "for the children" it would also be a mistake, IMO, to dump a perfectly salvagable marriage without trying OVER PRIDE. Acting on PRIDE is a BOY's game, not a man's game.

You have to understand the state of mind of wayward who is in an affair. The WS has already left the marriage emotionally. She is emotionally detached from you and is in love with the OM. She is on the FENCE so to speak and is afraid to jump. So if you make the mistake of throwing her out, you force her to make a decision when she is still intoxicated on the affair. THAT IS THE WORST TIME TO GIVE A WS AN ULTIMATUM.

That is to throw her into the arms of the OM, when the marriage can probably be saved if you are STRATEGIC and SMART about this.

And how can one be strategic and smart about this? By not lovebusting her [which hands her more ammunition with which to demonize you] and by showing her that you are willing to meet her needs if she will end her affair. When you don't react in anger and fury, you confuse HER and cause her to second guess her plans.

That is the carrot of Plan A. The stick of Plan A is critical. That means exposure, protecting finances, and causing as much conflict in the affair as possible. The more conflict you cause, the more unattractive the affair.

But just understand that we have many fully recovered marriages here where the affair did not end right away. MOST DON'T. But that does not mean you have to throw in the towel when you are under duress. 95% of affairs crumble under 2 years, but only 15% of affairs end in Plan A. More often it takes PLAN B, too.

You have nothing to lose by doing the best Plan A possible, then perhaps Plan B. You can always make a decision to move on at any point.

I am a BW.

I also feel the anger of sharing my H with someone else. The anger of OW thinking she has rights to a married man, rights to touch my man in any way.
I have a great deal of pride and struggled with the decision 'do I try to fix this or kick him the frig out' Need to say that physical contact had stopped after D-Day and I am sure this influenced my thinking.

I made the decision to 'fix' the MB Plan A way.
Plan A was so hard for all the reasons you guys have said.
But it was 'pride vs love for my H'

I'm so glad that 'love for my H' won

So what is the difference in how BH and BW think, b/c I'm not sure it is pride.
If it is pride, is it worth losing a family over?

I'm simply trying to understand since I think it is a really important decision that Marty has to be confident with.

What Melody says is true IF you are the type of man who can do it.

IF you can give your wife a goodbye peck on the cheek as she leaves the house to boink the OM then more power to you.

If you are not and you try to do so the resentment later in the marriage (if you make it) will likely eat you alive.

It all depends on who YOU are as Myrev stated.

OHHH ... I disagree completely (FOR SOMEONE OF MARTY'S PERSONALITY TYPE) ... a MAN's self-respect is a TERRIBLE thing to lose.

True, there are those BH's who claim they are better off for following Plan A & B, but that is not the type of BH that Marty describes himself as ... we need to recognize and understand the difference ... this IS NOT "one size fits all".

right. Is he a boy who would sacrifice the well being of his children for his temporarily bruised pride or he is a MAN who makes tough decisions based on reason and logic for the best interest of all? His pride won't always be bruised. His marriage and his children's family will always be bruised if he hastily kicks them to the curb. His marriage may well be saved like others here.

Some people are simply not cut out for Plan A and Plan B; I am admittedly one of them. But to kick a spouse and your children's family to the curb over PRIDE is the act of a BOY, not a man. It might feel good to do it, but it sure does not feel good to a 4 year old to have your family broken up. It is devastating.

Its real easy to tell people to dump their family when its not your life on the line.

Marty, just know that many people here have saved their marriages when the affair didn't end right away. And there is absolutely no shame is trying to save your marriage before you make any such decision to vacate. Thousands have done it before using plan A and Plan B.

How about we let MARTY decide that and not encourage him to kick his wife to the curb while he is under GREAT EMOTIONAL DURESS?

Making life changing decisions based on PRIDE is a BOY'S GAME. Lets help him be a man.

It will not be Marty who breaks up his family should it come to that. It will be the choice of his wife.

Marty is NOT responsible for HER choices.

Mr Z told me he was going to divorce me after I confessed to the A. His pride was destroyed. I lived at my mom's for a few days after d-day. When he asked me to come home, we had a long talk and he said, "I'll stay with you until you give me a reason not to."

After a few months of very bumpy recovery where I continued to lie to him about the details of the affair, we finally called the Harleys. During those rough months, Mr Z left me several times.

The point is, there is no way on earth Mr Z would have done Plan A. I have to say that his firmness was what I needed to snap me out of my fogged up delusions. He wasn't going to enable me to have an affair right under his nose. I also have to say, I respect him for this. If he enabled me with Plan A, I don't know if I would have respected him.