My radio discussed a survey recently that liste the top 10 things that would make a woman sit up and take notice of a guy - and provide a little 'extra' in the way of SF. Number one? Coming home and baking cookies, believe it or not.

I dont know if that would really work here. WW doesnt know how to cook and I am the one who always had dinner ready, made cookies and everything.

How are you going to measure what works?

If it fills one of her ENs it's working.

bake a cookie in the shape of the Eiffel Tower and present it to her with a drawn on moustache and a Frenchie accent and a white napkin over your arm and a red beret on your head ..... accompanied by a split of champagne

be creative
be fun

and stop worrying about "will it work"

gotcha

Actually, I meant that the woman likes it when the man takes over the baking and makes cookies. Probably because it's so unexpected, and it's relieving one of the woman's traditional duties.

lol. Yeah, thats why I was hesitant. Maybe if I wasnt such a fine cook then it would work better, but I will try anything once. WW has lost like 30lbs since she left.

Well, WW and i had a pretty good time today but it seemed like every time we would have fun and laugh, she would try to ruin it. What is that about?

Boy, it is frustrating when they tell you the fog speak every time you are together...how do you have the patience to deal with that?

there was a funny thread here by Orchid about reverse babble which comes in handy for such situations. Perhaps someone can bump it up?

Yeah, I seen that and try to remember to use some of them whenever I can. The fog speak is discouraging even though you know it is fog speak. Like WW talking about stuff like never wanting the M to work and all that stuff. Just helps to get on here and vent. I just have to remember to have patience to win her back. Slow and steady wins the race.

yep, definitely good to vent and strategize here and keep a good plan A going.

RS, remember that seldom do a WW's "feelings" for the OM just shut off like a faucet, rather they ooze away at a dreadfully slow pace. That's why I recommend looking backwards to see progress, as it's that slow.

Remain in the state of expecting nothing and continue to give "unconditional love" in the form of Plan A. I never fully understood "unconditional love" until I had to do Plan A. Now I understand it fully.

Try to continue with thoughtful gifts, small tokens to express your love for her and gestures as Pepperband suggested. Allow your creative juices to flow and target memories you two had together that were positive.

It's tough, but you have come this far, so we know you can do it. Continue to vent as you need, and we all understand that all too well. Look at the fog as a temporary mental illness that will be set straight as withdrawal runs its course.

The more you can get her to feel comfortable interacting with you and your daughter the better.

Thanks guys.

Last night WW admitted to me that there is a little part of her that wants to come back but it's not that big of a part. Well, at least it is progress, lol. WW has started looking me in the eyes a lot more when we talk. Maybe after a couple more months of plan Aing she will want ot come home. I think part of her that is keeping her from coming home is the obligations she has already made to be out.

Oh well, be back later.

Use the fogspeak as a measurement - not a measurement of you or your Plan A, but as a measurement of her progress away from the abyss.

She's actually making progress.

Hang in there.

Shack...you know what this means? Its working! I want you to take your right arm and place it over your head, then reach back behind your head and pat yourself on the back. You've done good so far!

Now, put your arm back because there is a lot more work to do. And there may be setbacks, false recoveries, etc. I like was recommended above...expect nothing and love unconditionally (which is the way we always should be with our wives, right?).

Now, I know the fog talk gets to you at times (it does everyone). But, try this a few times. When she goes into that the next time...and you guys are having a good time together...reach over and put your finger on her lips and say "ssshhhhh, not now. We're having a good time so let's just keep it that way. There is plenty of time to talk about that later."

I did that to my wife a couple of times, and you could see her shoulders drop 5 inches! But ask yourself "why" that worked. It worked because she was again having feelings for me, which meant that she was shifting away from the affair and back towards the marriage. But what comes with that shift?

Of course...feelings of guilt, about whether you could possibly love her again, etc. I tell you, it was at that point I actually felt sorry for her and what she had to go thru. Sure, she put herself in that position. But here was a woman that I loved, and I knew that she was hurting. It put everything in perspective.

Now, dont always "ssshhh" her. Sometimes, she is gonna want to get some things out there...and gauge your reaction. When she says "Om was so good at meeting this need or that need", what she is looking for is not telling you what they did. She is trying to gauge your reaction. She wants to see if your love is unconditional. She wants to see if she can be forgiven by you. And even more so, she wants to know that you dont think she is an idiot.

What do I mean by that? Well, too many BSs, when a WS is ready to return (this especially goes on when it is a BH and WW), when the WW is expressing something about the OM or their relationship, the BH talks in a way that makes the WW feel like she was an idiot for the choices she made.

Now, of course...she WAS an idiot for the choices she made!!! But as Steve Harley once asked me "do you want to be right, or do you want to be married?" The person that has to tell her and get her to believe that she was an idiot is HER! She is going to have to do that on her own. And if the BH is constantly tearing down her choices, she will be in defense mode and she will never get to that point.

So, I guess my advice at this point is to continue what yo uare doing (because it is working) and leave the relationship talk for later (or maybe suggest that the two of you begin counsling with Steve Harley...and to make things safe, that you will only discuss this stuff in counseling or at approved times by the two of you.

When you do that, you will make her feel safe. Safe to have fun with you and be around you. And also safe enough for her to know that she can tell you anything, and you will still be there and still be her friend.

Shack...she now WANTS to talk to you. She now WANTS you to meet needs. Keep doing that.

Also, one quick note: I would cool it now on the exposing at her work. She is now approaching you. I would let that take root and begin sprouting before doing anything more. Take this time, maybe a couple weeks, and just let her feel safe with you.

I can tell you, as long as you keep moving forward like you have...the damage is done to that relationship with the OM. I can say now that they are thru.

How fast that ends will be directly dependent on how you conduct yourself.

Carry on!

Thanks Mortarman. That is exactly the stuff I needed to hear. You are full of great advice and I hope you continue to help me along as much as you can. I will put the work stuff on hold for right now and all that too.

My WW is starting to see a counselor starting Friday because she said she really neds to talk about some stuff and that it is uncomfortable to talk about it with me and others. I just hope that it turns out to be a counselor that doesnt turn her against me lol.

MM is just so awesome!

Tell your wife (not WW) that she is beautiful.

Trust me. Tell her she is beautiful.

I do every day and will again in a few minutes after reading your post.

She stayed the night here last night because her mom was sick and she didnt want to catch it. She slept in the bed and I took the couch because I couldnt stand to see her sleep on the couch.

She slept at the house because she misses it. Her mom being sick was an excuse!

Good call on letting her have the bed, under these circumstances. You are ringing up points, my man.

And Pep...thanks!

Actually, I am staying at my moms house because I had to move from our rental when she left. So maybe it was to see me. lol I can always hope.

Yeah, she talked to me weird last night and today. She flirted with me and all. I think her biggest fears and sticking points are that we will not change and will go back to how we were before. That seems to be her biggest fear. She is deathly afraid of that. I so want to eleviate those fears for her, will a great plan A with little to no LB do that for her?

In one word...yes! But, it will take another word also...time. She cant see changes as short term. They have to be seen over the long term for them to stick.

Normally, if you make a mistake, it would pass right by her. But under these conditions, mistakes will always be magnified by her. "See, nothing has changed!" So, unfortunately, you will need to be near perfect for awhile for the changes to stick i nher mind.

So, far...so good, though! But, the issue that she presents (can you all make lasting changes) is one of the main ones ALL WSs ask and have to confront. That is why I asked if your wife might counsel with Steve Harley, so he might help her understand where she is at and how you guys might get thru and past it? If not, I might at least leave out a book while I headed in the kitchen to make dinner. My suggestion is to leave Dr. Harley's book "Surving an Affair" out, that she might pick it up and read.

But, do NOT try to educate her right now! You cant. Just make her think that you know that things will be better and keep showing her that they are. Then, try to get her in with Steve...or even better, get the two of you to one of the Marriage Builders Weekends.