I have been looking at these boards for about two weeks and have found the posts helpful. However, my WS is driving me crazy!!!

Here goes...

She started seeing an old boyfriend whom she broke up with a long time ago (18 years). I admit I hadn't met her EN because of my job and just plain stupidity. I am seeing a counselor and he tells me she doesn't want a divorce, but really wants to have both people. He has been very helpful, but I fear the only way to make her realize what she is losing is if I file for divorce. We have been married for ten years and have two children. Twin boys who are six.

I tried plan A but to no recourse. She kept seeing this 'man' about once a week and I had enough. She is now moved out and we share the boys equally.

My question is what will it take to make her come to the end of her rope? We argue all the time about the situation and she says it's me causing all the conflict. When I offer to file for divorce, she says no or do what you have to do. She claims that she should have never broken up with him 18 years ago and he will always be on her mind even if she comes back to me.

I am trying Plan B, but I don't think I can last. I just cry every time I think of quiting and tearing our boys hearts out. But I know that nothing will change. She says she can't end communcation with this guy because it is not in her heart right now.

It is out in the open with people, but it doesn't seem to affect her. If I hear 'right now' one more time I think I'm going to scream!!!

Funnytwo,

Welcome to MB. You've come to the right place.

How long did you plan A? Did you read all the MB Concepts on this website? In Plan A did you fight all the time or did you show your best YOU so she could see what she's missing? I know it's hard to do, but you can't be fighting all the time or that's what she'll associate with you. You have to be strong and show off your best side. Smile even though you feel like dying inside. Be calm. Talk to her. In time, it will help you too. Being angry and hurt all the time doesn't help in your own healing either.

I'm glad you found this site. The people here are wonderful and have helped both my and my WH a great deal. Keep posting! And read through other posts to get some guidance. Also, the books really help too.

I'm going through something similar. I tried plan A...but I dont think I used it correctly. I would question and question...and say I don't get it! I also told him that I was un sure about my feelings towards him. Mean while he was pretending to not speak to the OW. He and I were only ( half assed" trying to fix this. Last week I discovered that he had in face been seeing and speaking to this GIRL during the time of plan A. Now I am starting Plan A over again...this time I am doing it right! I just cant do Plan B! We cant stand being away from each other! Like a former post says...smile even if u feel like dying! Also walk away and do something that makes u feel good when u start getting angry again. It has been working for me.

Have you exposed OMW, WW's parents and siblings?

Also your kids need to know that your WW while married to you is dating OM.

How did your WW reconnect with the OM?

It can take a long time to get the WS to stop speaking to OP, and the "hiding" becomes part of the addiction. My WH couldn't understand why he was still hiding the phone calls even after he'd confessed to the A. That really frustrated him. It took him a long time to come clean with me over the calls. I had to be "okay" with the calls and be thankful that he was telling me about them and being honest. I think in a way this helped him learn to turn to me again about things. We would discuss why he called and what he needed from her when he called. That way I knew what I had to work on, so he would turn to me for those things. It wasn't easy - it was pure he!! some days, but it paid off in the end and we're stronger than ever before. AND this is just the beginning for us. We have a long way to go yet.

Huh??? Plan A is not being a doormat. There's also a stick to it. I see you've only recently begun recovery. Do you know that ALL contact with OW MUST end or withdrawal restarts EVERYTIME they make contact?

princessmeggy,

I was not a doormat. He knew I was upset, but I didn't yell and throw fits. That would have sent him out the door in an instant. We talked, and that's what made the difference for us. I wasn't thankful for him talking to her - I was thankful for him being open and honest - the MB way.

He hasn't had contact with her in a couple months. My reaction is what kept him around. My strength, my resolve, and my lack of AO's among many other things.

It is going on nine months since I found out about the A. She told me about it.

HE contacted her first.

My plan A was horrible when we were together. I found this website only two weeks ago so I didn't know about LB's etc. I know I have a few of those, but I don't know if it is too late.

As I said, we are going on nine months since I found out and it has been exposed. People aren't happy, but she continues to pursue him. He is not married (38 years old, never married, no kids) and has nothing to lose. She has moved out and on the days that she doesn't have our boys, she is over there. She claims there are times when she thinks about me when she is with him and when she is with our boys. She has been out for about six weeks.

I don't know how much longer I can take the indecision. I have asked numerous times about giving her a divorce and she says she doesn't want me to do that. I have been told by professionals that she doesn't want to divorce me and she knows the right choice is her family. But that doesn't mean she will make the right choice.

Now that she is out, I don't know if I should go to plan B or try a true plan A. I feel that if she is out, then she is out.

Get yourself a father's rights attorney.

File abandonment.

Serve her divorce papers.

Don't let her remove your children from the marital home.

So I am supposed to give up? How is filing divorce papers going to help?

I would think that would be OBVIOUS!!!

Wake up ... your WW has been having an A openly and "rubbing your nose in it" for 9 months. Just because she "doesn't want you to file" doesn't mean that she hasn't ALREADY left the M.

Let's look at the facts ... how well has your Plan A(ppeasement) been working for you? Keeping on doing the same things and expecting different results is FOOLISH!!!

It is possible that she is just the classic "cake eater" and refuses to make a decision without being proded ... if you want to try to keep this woman (although I can't imagine why) then it will likely take the cold hard reality of facing actually LOSING you and her FAMILY.

Have her served with a strong Plan D SEEKING FULL CUSTODY and see if she wakes up ... if she doesn't ... well, you have your answer there, too. Either way, you get out of limbo he11 and can move forward with your life. A Win - Win scenario for YOU!!!

Let's see...Your wife doesn't want D papers, she is continuing her affair. You are being gaslighted my friend. She's got you meeting some needs and him meeting others. Stop meeting her needs and enabling her affair. Show her this is not some game.

My apologies drgnfly, I didn't mean to upset you.

/TJ

This confuses me. My situation is similar but I thought the idea was to meet WW EN in plan A.
If you have time please look at my thread 'very uncertain about what to do' and perhaps reply there.

Funnytwo,

I would strongly recommend you call one of the Harley's. I think you are unclear on plan a and plan B. It is recognized that plan a may not stop the affair but it does plant seeds that are very useful to you in the future.

Plan B is clearly on the horizon for you, but it must be done correctly, that means an appropriate letter, an intermediary to deal with children exchanges and issues.

She is having the best of both worlds and she is cake eating now. It is very likely time for you to go to plan B and let OM meet all of her needs. The point of plan b is reduce the loss of love so that you can continue longer...if you wish. It also has the added benefit of allowing you "space' to really evaluate your situation, your goals, where your future really is and then make plans to acheive those goals, which might in fact include divorce.

Right now it does not sound as if you want divorce, but you want a lever to change your W's mind. There is no magical way to fix this. Either way takes work, effort, and pain.

Please give the Harley's a call they are the experts in this area and give you coaching to allow you to make a plan that works for you.

God Bless,

JL

PS: A few calls with them is a lot cheaper, than a divorce.

JL is exactly right! The BEST you can do is to schedule a call with Steve or Jennifer right now. Let them help you with your plan.

Barring that, you need to read all of the Harley books, especially His Needs, Her Needs and Surviving an Affair. We liken this mess to a war. You are the commander on the ground and only you can make the decisions! We are but advisors. Of course, the general (Dr. Harley) has the overall gameplan that will work and get you to where you need. But, you have to look at the lay of the land, listen to the advice and then act.

There are two main principles here...Plan A and Plan B (although there are some on here that push Plan D!). Both Plan A and Plan B are for YOU, not for your wife! Plan A is for you to become a better husband, to make the changes needed to become the husband you should have been. Please remember that the only person yo ucan change is YOU! But, by changing you, those around you must change!

Plan B is where you go when Plan A has been exhausted, that you have become the husband you were supposed to be and your wife has see this. At this point, you are very tired of the fight and need to pull back. That is Plan B! But a good Plan B is dependent on a good Plan A! And as JL said, Plan B has its own plans and things you need to do. You may need to go there soon...but you have some unfinished business first.

Plan A is NOT being a doormat! You do not have to accept her behavior. You do not have to act like everything is okay!

As the counselor said, your wife probably doesnt want a divorce. And my advice to you is to never bring it up again! If you want a divorce, than just go do it! Dont tell her. Dont threaten her with it.

But if you dont want a divorce, refuse to participate. Make her do all of the hard work! Now, I am NOT saying that you shouldnt protect yourself. I protected myself financially. I protected my custody rights (actually, I got full custody!). But never did I sign nor push forward divorce proceedings. Not until I was ready!

Keep asking questions here. Please do as JL suggested and get on the phone with the Harleys. Please read, read, read what MB principles are all about...as they work...even if your marriage doesnt make it!

I want to add this final thing. Your wife is pursuing something that just wont happen! The odds are greatly against her. But for you, the marriage is the most likely outcome IF one of you stays in it. If both of you decide to end it, then the marriage is over!

Here are the statistics:
* Less than 5% of all affars (some sources have it at less than 2%) make it to marriage
* Over 60% of all affair marriages end up in divorce.
* This means that your wife has less than a 3% chance of getting to marriage and staying with the OM
* Now, the probability of your marriage recovering IF at least oen of you stays in it and fights for it? Over 60% chance!

So, please understand that the odds are in your favor. Sure, you may go all the way thru this and she doesnt come back and you end up divorced. But even then, the process will allow you to become a better husband, father and man.

Quitting allows you to do none of that!

I presume you've read this thread in it's entirety

----> FOR NEWLY BETRAYED SPOUSES


It's got a summary of what to do.

I'd say based upon your timeline you really should be executing Plan B in the next month. Plan B will be more effective if preceeded by an effective Plan A, to whatever extent possible.

There is another front that must be fought on the backside of trying to save your marriage and that's protecting your twins from this mess.

I see your sharing your twins right now...does that mean 50-50? How is that being divided up right now?? Is it in writing?? Did an attorney prepare it or is it a verbal agreement? Is she throwing the kids upon you, even on her days, to pursue her relationship with OM?? Are you documenting everything precisely??

Presuming you've got 50-50 you are at a slight advantage over many men that show up here. 50-50 is likely your base point if and when you ever actually fight for more custody. Primary residential custody should be your goal. Your children need protection from exposure to her wayward mindset. No matter how good a mother she was before...if she remains wayward...she won't be anymore. Waywards live in a fantasyland of selfishness and entitlement. It is NEVER a healthy environment for children. Your kids need your protection. While fighting to restore your family you must also, on the backside be cognizant of the fight for primary custody should divorce be the final outcome here.

Good luck,
Mr. Wondering