Hey...Pom is correct on what he said. And as I stated when I gave you that advice, my first inclination is NOT to respond!

But, I also believe that since you do not have your son right now, that I would make sure I have on record that basically what I said above. Sure, I added in the Plan A stuff, as I never say "never" when it comes to these things...even though your wife seems as Pom described. And as long as you dont allow yourself to be drawn into arguments...that you ONLY stay with your mantra as I described above, then it is doubtful that anyone (including the judge) will see anything else but yo udefending your family and your rights.

The rub here is if you would stick to the mantra! Man ycant, and get pulled down into the mess and argue and plead and are constantly defending against WS attacks. By having a mantra, which is the same message said over and over again, you almost dont even need to read her email or text. Just copy and paste the last one you sent!

But if you cant refrain from being pulled into her arguments and her attacks, then I agree 110% with POM that it is better to not respond and just document!

I had already sent the email before Pom chimed in again. It was almost exactly what MM wrote.

I almost feel that my marriage isn't worth saving with WW. I would have a lot of stipulations for her if she wanted to reconcile. Among the stipulations would be that I would probably follow through with the legal separation to establish custody. I think we'd have to remain separated for a while as she attended counseling and definately NC and completely transparent lifestyle... Don't know if she'd go for all that...

But I think she's bluffing anyway. My response might tick her off. I won't get sucked into an argument. I think I can stick with the mantra..

<groan> why is everyone ignoring the obvious answer -- to let ericch's lawyer counsel on these communications?

All this paper becomes evidence and complicates things.

My attorney left me a voicemail Friday at 5:00pm stating that he had spoken to WW's attorney. He said that WW might be willing to let me see my son this weekend and advised me to call her to ask to see my son.

I immediately called WW on her cell and left a voicemail stating that my attorney told me to call her to see if I could see my son.

She didn't call back. I then sent her an email expressing my desire to see my son. No response.

I drove by her apartment last night to see if she was still there since her other two kids were going to their dads' for the weekend. She was there and so was OM.

This Monday will mark the end of two weeks without my son. I really think WW might continue this for months if we don't get a signed visitation agreement. This is so insane.

I'll call my attorney back on Monday and discuss the situation and the emails..

Erich,

Google "parental alienation" and "parental alienation +[your state]".

Lots of good information out there.

Keep documenting and agree to nothing.

Again...like her attorney stated "maybe she'll let him see her this weekend", she, nor her attorney have the right to dictate, absent an agreement, how long you "get to" see your child. The longer she does this the stronger your case for parental alienation will be. It sounds like she will just continue to "alienate" you no matter what....but there is likely to come a time soon where her attorney reasons with her and tries to get a stipulated visitation. Don't stipulate to anything. Instead...insist that she took two weeks, three weeks, four weeks and you'll agree to something reasonable like a week for yourself followed by 50-50. They won't agree and likely keep alienating you to their own legal detriment.

One thing nice about negotiating though...is you'll get a chance to document YOUR reasonableness and ability to focus on the childs best interest AND demonstrate that WW really doesn't have concerns about your ability to care for your child. You see...she'll have to be creative when you eventually claim "parental alienation" so, in your reading, be cognizant of the "defenses to a claim of parental alienation". These likely include claims that you are unfit, unstable, unbalanced, mentally ill...anything that she can say to justify what she is doing (in fact....the biggest defense appears to be claims that you are abusive).

Here is a link to a do's and don't list regarding Parental Alienation. DO'S AND DON'TS . I think it's a little strongly worded to the extent that, as an attorney, it is my opinion that too much stomping around loudly demanding your father's rights by an alienated father, won't be successful in today's biased court system. You've got to appear calm, reasonable and likeable so they WANT to help you. Judges very much rely on first impressions and litigious, demanding fathers APPEAR controlling and, maybe, just maybe abusive and judges never want to gamble their cushy lofty positions on potentially abusive fathers. Thus...DO be aggressive and demanding with your attorney. DO educate yourself. DO proceed with urgency and document your urgency as a matter of concern for your son. However, be strategic and respectful when IN the system because the "system" is the only thing that can give you your son back.

You are early in this process. Do not disrespect the system by going to the media or anything unless and until the system has utterly failed you.

With God...it shouldn't. That is my prayer for you.

Mr. Wondering

p.s.- For now...I'd suggest down playing the fight for your marriage in any and all communication as you are at the outset of a fight for your son and those words are going to be pointed back at you as an explanation for your litigious behavior. Your attempts to win her back will be painted as being vindictive and controlling and as the ONLY reason you give two craps about your son. Her attorney will attempt to make it seem you are all about winning her back at all costs and you son is some pawn in such end game with WW. For now, IMO, any and all communication should be ONLY concerning your son and his best interests. Of course...consult with your attorney.

p.p.s. - about your attorney. He handles many personal matters for many clients. He's been doing this for years. He's NOT really personally involved. YOU are the best advocate for YOUR case. YOU must educate yourself and, often, be the spark to your attorney's fire. If he's not a pit bull....make him one with your persistence ... even if that means you'll got to play the victim to him at times...to enhance his personal investment. It is safe and I encourage you to share with him your desperation and pain, if you sense it will light a fire under his butt. (I'll remind you again though...be sure to discuss with him exactly what you want because I could very well see your attorney making a verbal "temporaray visitation" agreement like a stipulated weekend visit with your son directly with her attorney THINKING that he's achieving you what you want (i.e. - time with your son) versus what you want long term (i.e. - primary custody)).

Waywards are pretty foolish, aren't they? You would THINK they would see the error of their ways, but nope.

Mine has continually done things that will make him look bad in the eyes of the court--most notably: withholding the insurance money so I was unable to get a fire hazard repaired. I finally got the money on Thursday.

I guess that's just "by the book" as far as waywards are concerned. Too "fogged" up too see what they are doing is detrimental to their case.

And mine? His A has been going on since May 2007. Yours is still a bit "fresh." It looks like time doesn't change much for some.

There's a saying...can't remember the whole thing but it starts with "Fools rush in." I guess some of them just keep on going!!

Take care, erichh. We're pullin' for ya'!

Charlotte

Ditto to everything Mr. W says.

Keep your cool and don't run around stomping about father's rights in the courts. He's dead on about having the courts want to help you. My attorney has emphasized this since I met her.

Document your attempts to contact your son.

Lawyers don't win legal cases, clients do. How the court perceives YOU is the most important thing.

Just wanted to say how very sorry I am that you have not seen your boy in 2 weeks.

((((E))))

Many prayers are going out for you.

Thanks Mr. Wondering. I did some research today on Parental Alienation Syndrome. Apparently there are a lot of different forms of alienation, not just time apart from the other parent. In the last email I received from WW, she emphasized that "nothing bad has been said about you.." After reading that alienation includes bad-mouthing the other spouse, it makes me wonder if WW has read up about alienation and made a point of emphasizing that she's not bad-mouthing me in front of the kids..

I've set it in my mind that I will not agree to any temporary visitation arrangements. If she returns my son, I will keep him for at least a week to make up for lost time. I can only wonder how this time apart is affecting my son. Is he old enough to wonder where daddy went and why he hasn't seen his daddy in so long?

I will definitely step up the tone of urgency with my attorney since two weeks have gone by and his attempt to contact WW's attorney to arrange for some visitation has failed.

I'll respect the system and work with it to the best of my ability. But I am realizing that I have to do my part to be convincing. I've begun to prepare myself mentally for the kind of questions that I may be asked by the court. I'm keeping my answers in a journal and will tweak it as I go along...

Thanks Marshmellow. Today was the hardest day being away from my son so far. At church, there are a lot of families and a lot of kids. A father sitting in front of me was holding his infant son and kissing his smiling face. I almost broke down right there.

At my house this afternoon, I was haunted by the memories of my children. As I looked at the stairway landing in our house, the memory of my step-son bounding down the stairs flashed through my mind. He always swings on the bottom stair-way post and I would always correct him to not swing on it but it never worked--he couldn't remember not to do it.

My step-daughter practicing her viola--she sounded out the tune to the Star Wars theme song and would stop whatever she was playing and belt out the Star Wars theme song whenever I entered the room.

My little boy hugging me and kissing me every night before being tucked into bed. "Night Night Daddy!"

My heart felt like it would implode. I felt like there was no way out of the quagmire created by memories crashing through my consciousness until finally the thought that this is only temporary took hold. That's about the only thing that comforts me right now. However, I may never experience living with my step-children again.. But time will blur the memories, life will continue on, and we will heal.

I have a question for MORTARMAN or anyone who has recovered a marriage where the spouse did terrible things to you:

How did you decide to stay married to that person?

I feel like my WW has done such terrible things that while I could forgive her, I think that maybe I shouldn't stay married to her. ...assuming that she would ever want to work on recovery...

Does anyone have any success stories where your spouse was a complete a-hole and had a history of poor behavior, but you were able to recover your marriage? I know that there are success stories where there was infidelity, but those experiences seem to involve a WS that didn't have a history of A's.

I'm still waiting to read Mortarman's story. Has it been released yet?

erichh,

I feel for you. Hang in there.

Don't do anything dumb regarding your son. Remember, you have to show you're the bigger person in all of this.

YOU are the victim. Your son is as well.

The other kids have their own dad. You worry about your own.

I'm hanging in there.

Would it hurt anything to email WW just to share my feelings with her about how much it hurts to not see my son? Not to accuse or do any name calling. I keep wanting to share with her the pain that I am feeling. Partially to get it off my chest some more. Partially, so she'll perhaps comprehend how much she is torturing me by her actions (keeping my son away from me)--perhaps it would get through the fog a little? My WW always said that I had a hard time sharing my feelings and she called me a robot a lot because of this.

I don't know, I just think that if someone could truly understand the pain they are putting someone else through, maybe they'd act differently? Well, obviously it doesn't change a WW's decision to be with OM, but maybe it would encourage them to work with you to give you time with your kids?

Don't do it.

Somebody has a signature here that says "A WS doesn't care about a BS's pain."

That is very true. My WW was so caught up in mourning her affair and the fact that the OM chose his W over her that I could have been sitting in front of her on fire and she wouldn't have spit on me.

Don't expect her to care about your pain while she is wrapped with the OM, bud. It will only set you up for pain.

LOL. You have a way with words Mike. I know she doesn't care about my pain from her A. But might she care about my pain from not seeing our son? Probably not, eh.

I would say not. My WW doesnt give a crap how I feel about what our daughters are going through. Remember, she only really cares about herself right now.

WW won't care...but it may provide good documentation. I say do it but keep it short. Don't use the word "alienation" and don't make it legalistic. Just indicate how much you miss your son and beg her to let you see him. Take on a victim status as if the judge is your reader and not your WW (because she won't comprehend any of your pain).

Dear WW,

I miss {son's name}. It's been over two weeks since I've seen him. You can't avoid my calls and emails forever. Even after you walked out and left him in my care, I never denied you any time with him. Though I think you are behaving unstable and your living arrangements are horrible and somewhat illegal, my offer of 50-50 custody until we get a court date is still on the table.

Our son is not a gamepiece....he needs his father too. Is he asking about me? How are you explaining this situation to him? Is he sleeping in the same room with you and your boyfriend? Does he have enough food, diapers, toys, etc.?

Please...I'm getting desperate here.

Erichh


Just an idea....you should pass it by your attorney before sending it.

Mr. Wondering

I like what Mr. W wrote. Very, very good for court!

I like Mr. W's letter. The only things I'd change would be to remove the question of is DS asking for him. Either change it to a statement or leave it out. Not sure I'd use the word "desperate" since cuckoo WW is already making erichh out to be the nutty one.


Love the "somwhat illegal" comment.