Okay now I am crying again, well I laughed at the first comment and then cried because I think this is exactly what I need to say to my H. I have trouble talking about stuff like this, but I know I need to do it.

You hit the nail on the head. There is a lot of good in my marriage and I love my H.

If he had never cheated I would have nothing to complain about. But since he did I guess I want even more from him.

Which of course leaves him feeling like he can never make me happy. So most of the time I just stiffle my crazy thought and feeling because I want him to happy.

Awwww, TTLIG, I didn't mean to make ya cry! Give it a whirl and let us know how it goes! (((((TTLIG)))))

Mrs. W

First, they are NOT "crazy thoughts", they are what you need to be in love with your husband! Secondly, goodness no, don't "stiffle" them! That is SACRIFICE and will kill your marriage! Dr. Harley says that complaints in a marriage are GOOD - they let your spouse know how things are going and what may need to be tweaked in order for you to stay in love...It is "criticism" that is bad, not "complaints"...

Mrs. W

I also see that Trying is meeting her H's needs in the way she likes her needs met. Hence I think them watching the basic concepts DVD and doing the EN questionaire and making a plan to meet each others needs will be very productive for them.

Krazy - My marriage has never been more passionate and loving than it has been in the past 3 years. I think you are dead wrong.

I have also come to realise that thinking our spouse must know or should know something is foolish.

Put simply - they don't! So you have to tell them.

I read a great book recently by Emerson Eggerichs called "Love and Respect" Talks about (amongst other things) that is you believe your spouse is basically good hearted then they are not deliberately doing stuff to you. It's mostly out of ignorance.

IMO, LOVE AND RESPECT is a GREAT BOOK..one of my favorites...

TTLIG, In my earlier post to you I advised you to show your husband HOW you want to be loved NOT that you weren't doing a good job now, just that he doesn't understand the WAY YOU NEED TO BE LOVED!!!

I don't believe that you doubt your husband's love for you as you have noted that IF he HAD NOT cheated on you you would not be unhappy now with the way he treats you.

HOWEVER he DID cheat on you and for you to heal he is going to have to put more effort into the marriage than he would have to if he had not cheated for you to be happy.

HERE IS WHAT I AM TRYING TO LET YOU KNOW:

HE DOESN'T HAVE A CLUE AND YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO TEACH HIM!!!
THAT is where the unexpected (flowers, texts, spontaneous lovemaking, etc) acts of appreciation (that the OW got) are initially going to have to come from you...
YOU are the one who must arrange for the dates, babysitters, spontaneous lovemaking in spontaneous places ONLY IN THE BEGINNING. Once he has been SHOWN what you want then you start giving him the hints about "how much I enjoyed the night we___________ and how much I felt loved when you did".

I hope I did not give you the idea that it was all your responsibility for the relationship. You are just the one that has to jumpstart it into action!!!

God bless both of you,

Jim

Just read this topic and found it ironic because I look at it just the Opposite. I am so very happy I didn't get any part of what the OW did. I'm not into lying, cheating, hiding, loss of moral values.

What I have and I suspect you do as well is MUCH MORE than she ever had. You have HIM.(the REAL him)

Atruheart

Neither am I. I would not tolerate it from her EVER again. But you seem to forget the above is what YOU got from your FWH. He gave the OW the EFFORT, the LUST, the DESIRE you may or may not ever get.

Your FWH may NEVER SHOW YOU AS MUCH EFFORT AS HE GAVE THE OW. SHE got the planning of dates strictly for sex, the appreciation, the lust, the desire. Maybe you have been invited on a date STRICTLY FOR SEX with absolutely NOTHING ELSE on the agenda. Maybe not... If you weren't then you haven't got what the OW got. You may be getting the love but not the LUST and the DESIRE that she got and THAT is where the HEALING STOPS!!! (At least for some people, me included).

As long as the balance wheel is tilted to the OP SOME people can never heal and that is my point. It is not a one size fits all and not everyone sees it this way BUT A WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE DO...

How do you EVER heal knowing your FWS felt MORE DESIRE FOR THE OP than you? PLEASE NOTE I DID NOT SAY LOVE!!! It may be more of a gender thing with BH than BW because MOST men have a much bigger problem with the sex than do MOST women. My FWW PLANNED dates for sex, drove a hundred miles for it, and openly flirted with the OM in front of me.

I could NEVER deal with the idea that she gave more EFFORT to that worthless POS. When you marry someone it is because you feel that you are number one in their life and you expect to be treated as such. When you have SEEN them give more effort to someone else you are not #1 to them. I don't want the MORAL FAULTS my FWW showed, I WANT TO KNOW I MEAN MORE TO HER THAN THE OM!!!

If she can't put as much effort into this as she did for the OM I would never be able to get over it... If I don't it's a deal breaker and I will not be treated as an inferior to the OM...

You are certainly entitled to your opinion but each person has their own definition of what is recovered and what they will settle for.

God bless.

Jim

Agree with you Jim. If the FWS doesn't make the effort it will be difficult if not impossible to fully heal and the BS will always feel slighted and resentful. If the BS feels this way, is it because they know what the WS did with OP or is the effort alone the defining factor? Did the WS NEVER do a specific act with BS but did with OP?

Perhaps the WS feels ashamed doing certain things now (especially FWWs) because they feel slutty and they might wonder if the BS views them this way or if it will be a trigger for the BS when it's really a trigger for them. Hope that made sense lol. If a BH called his wife all sorts of names after D-day, maybe she doesn't want to boink her BH in the back seat of a car because that's how OM treated her...used her. Even without the name calling, certain acts may make a FWW feel cheap so she doesn't want to do them. It may have nothing at all to do with her desire to keep those things "special" between her and OM like the BS thinks.

There are some things my H can no longer say to me right now. What's the saying, men want Miss Susie Homemaker in the kitchen and a whore in the bedroom...

A few months back H and I were flirting and kissing. Loved the attention. Rose petals and candles were the furtherst thing from my mind. He then proceeds to say something like, "You ready to be my little whore ?" Well that killed the mood in about 2 seconds flat. It's not that H had never said something like that to me before (sorry if this is TMI for some )it's that I now had an association with the word "whore" and it was OW. Now I could have yelled and screamed at him if I wanted to but I know H was only trying to be playful and wasn't thinking of OW. He knew he blew it as soon as the words left his mouth and apologized for the next few days for being so insensitive.

If a FWS has this mindset, the BS needs to bring it up instead of assuming their FWS is still secretly lusting over OP. They may just feel "dirty" doing certain things. If it's never addressed, it's never going to get better for either spouse.

black_raven, You bring up some great questions that are essential to a BS healing. I think MOST of the time that there is a problem in recovery when both WANT to heal is because they are not on the same page.

That was certainly the case with my wife and I. When I would share with her that I needed what the OM got SHE heard that I just wanted her to have SF with me in all the locations that they did. That had NOTHING to do with it!!!

What I wanted was to mean MORE to her than he did by EXPENDING the amount of EFFORT on me that she did on him!!!

You are EXACTLY correct in the point that she EQUATED the desire and lust she showed in her SF she did with him as being FILTHY rather than it being the AFFAIR that made it FILTHY!!!

One day she finally shared with me that she could not forgive herself for the affair or ME for my part in not being a better husband and THAT had her stuck in the recovery.

That is when I knew that we could never move forward until she forgave not only herself for the affair but also MYSELF for my part of the marriage.

BECAUSE SHE COULD NOT FORGIVE SHE WAS INCAPABLE OF GIVING ANYBODY AS MUCH AS SHE GAVE THE OM!!!

It boils down to this:

TO RECOVER YOU MUST NOT ONLY FORGIVE YOUR SPOUSE BUT YOURSELF.

The balance wheel is then reset and with BOTH on an EQUAL footing the true healing can begin.

When my wife forgave HERSELF she was then able to forgive ME which freed her to give me ALL OF HER.

THAT is when I got my wife back.

The cool thing is this:

WHAT I GET IS REAL.

God bless.

Jim