Also, I hope you are telling your children how wrong it is for their mom to have a boyfriend.

And that you are telling them that it is OM that is trying to break up your family. And that you are doing everything you can to fight for their mom and their family.

Repeat this often.

No, don't do this.

Now you know for sure which side she is on.

Go and see her and visit for a while.

If you get the chance, tell her how much you love her DD. How much you want your family to stay intact. Tell her that stats show that WW's A only has a 1% chance of working out. But that M's that experience infidelity have a 60% chance of recovery. Tell her how badly children fare coming from broken M's, and ask her to PRAY for your family.

If she tries to argue w/ you, "Say, Mom, I don't want to argue, I'm just asking that you pray for us." "And please know that we are all praying for you."

She may try to reason w/ her DD using the info you gave her.

You just never know.

I do this and get alot of flack from WW and MIL about putting the kids in the middle of everything, including them being in the room when I have outbursts or discussions on the topic with the WW. It's difficult to avoid because WW is rarely around and if/when she is, the kids are also around.

My daughter is at a sleep over B-day party tonight. I have a strange feeling that WW isn't coming home tonight. Her car is at OM's right now, which doesn't really mean anything, because she could be anywhere with him, or still may come home at some late hour. She did leave the porch light on, but that doesn't mean anything, either. It will be off shortly because I won't leave the porch light on for her when she's out with OM. Is that an LB?

Looks like the porch may also be littered with clothing tomorrow am, but I have not had the chance to warn her yet, as recommended by one of the other people who have posted. Should the warning be after tonight's episode if she doesn't come home? I'm sure there may be more in the future at this rate.

Unbelievable!!! 11:45 and she just got home. What's that all about? I mean, she spent all day with him, but that's awfully early to come home. Once again, she didn't greet me when she came in the door, despite sitting in the room where she entered. In general, do I blow her off, too, or initiate it by saying hello? It's certainly hard to do when she's returning from being with the OM.

Others may feel different, but I'd greet her with the truth, "Did you enjoy your affair filled day?"

You've been told several times now. Set your boundary.

"If you leave this house to see OM do not come back. You will come home to find all your stuff on the front door and the locks changed. If you go see him, you can stay with him."

End of negotiation. Nothing more to say.

Grow a pair.

I don't know how you can possibly put up with her being with another man the entire day and then have you welcome her home.

Ask yourself, what are you doing to end this affair?

I'm getting close to this, but I'm concerned about my children, especially when alot of her stuff is in my daughter's room. Pom, you've given alot of good wisdom in your posts and replies, and I want to proceed with your advice, but I'd like a few more folks to chime in with their opinion specifically on this issue.

Another question for y'all. First, by let me saying that I now don't want to sell the car because it's my way of using my new GPS toy. I'll never have access to the new vehicle if she gets another car. That alone makes it worth keeping it.

Anyway, the OM's house (it's a dump) is about 15 minutes away. When my new toy shows she's there, should I drive my children by the house and show them that she's there?

How much more chiming in do you need? There are pages of us chiming in and telling you to stand firm and put your foot down.

Man up will you???

NO!

Take videos/photos.

Don't bring the kids into this. It's really tough on them.

If they ask answer honestly, but don't get them involved by telling them things like that. They're helpless to do anything and it could backfire on you bigtime in court.

Again, set your foot down. You have pages and pages of people giving you their opinion. Re-read your thread and the advice given to you.

Your DD needs to see you taking steps to stop her mother from making a mistake. As you pack up her mom's clothes, calmly tell her "I am taking mommy's clothes and putting them in a box. I told her that our family needs her to stay here and not with her boyfriend. I told her that if she chooses to be with her boyfriend instead of us, then I can no longer let her stay here with us - I don't want you seeing her do this to us. When she realizes she has made a mistake, she can come back home."

Say that, BUT: also say this:
"Mommy is a grown-up who is making a mistake. That is why I can't let her stay here with us while she is with her boyfriend. But if you or your brother (?) make a mistake, we will NEVER make you go away; kids are supposed to make mistakes and learn from them, but grown-ups are supposed to already know right and wrong."

Make it very clear she (your DD) will not ever be kicked out for making a mistake.

But she needs to see you taking a stand. You are teaching her all the wrong things by just standing by and watching and doing nothing.

Very good point!

Yes, please ask yourself what kind of lesson are you teaching your daughter and your son about how you should be treated in a marriage. You want them to grow up and act as you are acting right now by putting up with a cheating spouse? THAT should be a motivator for you.

I disagree...do NOT dump your wife's clothes on the porch...if for any reason, the harm it will do to your kids...

However, when there is talk about you putting your kids in the middle, I can't think of any deeper damage your W can do than to live with your DD in her room. I would ask your WW what other alternatives there are to her sleeping in your DD's room.... on the couch, in the garage...somewhere else? Anywhere but in your DD's room (or other kid's room) and THEN move her clothes there, if she doesn't do it herself...

Do you have extra space for her? A basement? The couch?

Are you serious? WW is out boinking OM and you think turning off the porch light might be a LB? I give up.

I disagree that throwing her stuff on the front porch is damaging to the kids.

Tolerating the behavior that she's showing is like telling your kids, "Hey, if your spouse ever cheats on you, just take it and do nothing."

That is a bad message to teach kids.

When they grow up they'll look back and say, "My mom cheated on my dad, but dad didn't do anything" or "My mom cheated on my dad and my dad didn't put up with it and threw her out".

Which message would you rather they say?

The best response I've ever seen here was by a man who caught them in the act, took their clothes and threw the clothes out into the middle of the street, and promptly cut her off. I don't think she stayed in the affair more than a day longer, did she? And wasn't he the same guy who, later saw the same OM with another woman whom he knew, and he took their picture and emailed it to the OM's wife and the woman's H - right there on the spot. Stopped again!

I may have the details a little off, but you get the idea. The only thing I've seen work here is swift, decisive, and forceful action.

I'm not talking about having them listen to your WW and you argue or even discuss this.

I'm talking about having private conversations w/ them about what being married means. About how you and your WW promised to forsake all others. About how it is morally wrong to do what she is doing.

And then, MG, you need to take action!

You've got OM's info, get his parent's and XW's phone numbers and EXPOSE, for YOUR KID's SAKE, expose!

And then, for your KID'S SAKE, sell her car!!! You don't need the GPS anymore. You got what you needed!

And then pack up her crap, FOR YOUR KID'S SAKE, and dump it over OM's house.

Don't be the guy who is afraid of getting "flack" from a wayward and her enabling mother!

Be the guy who has had enough of his WW exposing his kids to immoral living and calling it good.

Be the guy who is going to DEMONSTRATE how to fight evil for his children's sake.

Your lawyer said he wants you to look sympathetic to the court, but what good will that do if your girls become morally corrupted? Loose the ability to judge right from wrong:? If you destroy any chance at recovering your M b/c you have not protected what love you have for your W?

No court in the world will hold it against you if you toss your WW's things at OM's place. Let her tell the court WHERE you put her things. WW: "Your Honor, he threw all my things in bags and threw them over my boyfriend's home!" How will THAT win her points? Or hurt you?

If you sell the car that YOU HOLD THE TITLE TO, but give her half of the money from it, how does that make you look bad? If you get D, you'll have to sell the home and split the money from it. It's your WW that wants to seperate from you, she's the reason you'll have to sell your home, divide up everything you own. Do you not get this?

Don't wait until she is established at her job, and has enough money saved up, and all the legal papers filed, to SCREW you, and plunge into a blissful affair w/ OM.

Pull the rug out on her NOW! Make things difficult for her NOW, so that she will begin to think her A isn't such a great idea. Right now, OM is on EASY STREET. She isn't putting any pressure on him to meet any of the needs YOU are meeting.

Show your children that you think affairs are wrong, by fighting it.

Here's a different opinion about throwing a WW out...

From Mortarman:

All,

I can see the situation that Carp is in and it sucks! In my case, my wife left willingly, and erronously thought that later on, once she was established, that she would be able to come back and get custody. Well, of course, that didnt happen!

In Carp's case, his wife has been adequately advised not to leave, as she would almost assuredly be guilty of abandonment and lose custody. So, the ONLY reason she is still in the house is she wants to take the kids with her.

Now, what recourse does Carp have?

1. He could try to throw her out, taking her stuff and dropping it on the front lawn or the OM's doorstep. Result: Carp would be viewed as the aggressor here, and the most likely outcome would be that HE would be removed from his own home. So, this isnt a good choice.

2. He could do nothing and wait for the chips to fall where they may. This also isnt a good choice, for the reasons Melody has raised above. The chief among them is the damage that his daughters are going through.

3. Negotiate a settlement with his wife to get her to leave. Okay, IF she will do that...and IF she would agree to something that is agreeable to Carp, then this would work. But, Mrs. Carp sounds like the Cake Eating Queen. I doubt she would agree to anything except total surrender by Carp. If she would agree to at least 50-50 with the girls and no money exchanged (except that stated by law), then that might be a consideration. But, my guy feeling is that she wouldnt go for it. She believes she is entitled and will win custody, so in her mind, there is no way Carp can do anything.

4. Carp could leave. But, then he would be guilty of that which we described in #1 for his wife. Not good at all.

So, what are his other options at this point. Well, the only option left is to aggressively pursue the custody hearing. Push the paperwork, and demand it all.

My wife before we went to court the first time, told me straight out "there is no way yo uare going to get the kids. I am their mother." Two weeks later, I had primary custody and she was paying me child support. It was at that point the fog began to blow away because she began to feel the consequences of her sins.

Mrs. Carp is going to have to feel the same, I think. She is going to have to lose big...before her entitlement syndrome is uver shadowed by reality.

So, my suggestion here is to get all of your info, all of your ammo...and press the fight to her. At this point, I would suspend all but the basics of Plan A. I would tell my lawyer to file IMMEDIATELY for custody (primary and full). I would continue my intel gathering to make sure all of my bases are covered.

And around my WW, I would begin to act confident and secretive. Make her think you know more than her. Make her worried that you have something she hasnt thought of. Make her begin to suspect that she might not have a lock on things. Make her worried.

No more long conversations...just statements of fact. And push the fight to her. You see, a WW who begins to panic will make a WHOLE BUNCH of mistakes. Ones that will benefit you, Carp.

So, that would be my plan. Get things rolling, collect intel that will help your case, get counselors, teachers, etc to get on your side (you will have to be subtle and "manipulate" them into seeing things your way). Document EVERYTHING you do and she does with the kids.

Throwing her out is no choice at this time. But, you do have things to do. Press the fight and take the battle into her back yard. Make her begin defending herself.