I myself just could not take advice from someone who would not adhere to it themselves.

I think you meant ALL are able and SOME are willing?

pom, I agree it is heartbreaking and this is where I think you can be useful to others. The biggest takeaway I got from your situation is to never believe a wayward and to NEVER EVER cooperate in the destruction of your marriage. I seem to remember that you cooperated all the way because you believed that appeasement would have its benefits. It did not.

So, I am glad to see you posting to these men, because you can be a voice of wisdom in showing them WHAT NOT TO DO.

That doesn't make any sense, IAM. Not everyone's personalities are the same. Some may very well be able to execute these plans, others cannot because of various reasons of personality/temperament. And others choose to just end the marriage. This is not a one-size fits all.

Plan A takes an amazing amount of personal control over ones emotions in order to be effective. Not everyone has that ability or willingness. Doesn't mean they can't show others how it is done.

Dr. Harley says he wouldn't do it, yet he has saved thousands of marriages with his plans.

Let me put it another way, I would not choose to ever do Plan A. But does that mean that others can't either? Or that there is something wrong with Plan A? Of course not. We are all different so, of course, plan A's suitability will not be the same for each and every person.

But my unwillingness to do Plan A does not mean I can't tell others what I know about that. There would be no legitimate reason NOT TO.

And for all the reasons you just stated (temperment, personality, etc) are exactly WHY I could not take advice from someone who would not follow it themselves. See?

As far as the 'ability and willingness' go I submit this, your own words.

iam,

I couldn't follow the advice I give because of the emotional state I was in. I give that advice because I look back now and wish I actually did what I'm advising others to do. I would look back and be proud of what I did and not ashamed of the doormat I became.

I literally begged on my knees. Nothing makes me shake my head more than to look back on this as pathetic and I don't want other men to make the mistake of appeasement that I made.

So I advise others to do things I couldn't do because I was too afraid to do it.

Nothing wrong with giving someone an ideal they can try to follow.

Heck, all of us can try to be like Jesus, yet all of us will fail. But making a strong attempt to follow his teachings (or whatever religion you follow) will pay greater dividends in life than not following any of the teachings.

Just a thought. An ideal is an ideal. It's like a theoretical constant that doesn't exist in real life. But pursuing the ideal can lead to excellence. The strive for perfection leads to excellence.

So, why are you here? Dr. Harley even said he thinks he couldnt follow this. And he is the guy that came up with all of this. So, why are you at Marriage Builders, when you just said that you cant follow the advice of someone that would not follow it themselves?

WHY NOT? Just because someone would not choose to do Plan A does not mean they shouldn't help someone who DOES choose to do Plan A. You are not making any sense at all.

For example, if someone asks you for directions to New York City [and you know the directions] would you refuse to tell them because you are not willing to go to New York City?

Does that make any sense to you?

I guess you could ask Dr. Harley the same thing?

I'm here because I believe in the Plan as long as the wayward is immediately remorseful.

Maybe you would prefer a forum where everyone agrees with you everytime?

You make as much sense to me as I do to you.

You're analogy doesn't fit.

If my doctor told me I needed surgery to save my life then told me he 'personally' wouldn't have it if he was me, I'd find another doctor.

ML,

FWIW, I agree with "THIS" post of yours. However, your "words" of "This is not a one-size fits all" here doesn't match your past "actions".

If you will recall Marty's predicament last week that this forum allowed to effectively run in the ditch ... I made a post to Marty inquiring about personality type PRIOR to ever advising him about anything:


... and Marty responded with:


I then advised him accordingly, but you primarily, along with the help of a few others reduced that exchange to a petty bickering match, ***edit***... and worst of all, WE HAVEN'T HEARD FROM MARTY SINCE!!!

Now here you are arguing the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you posted last week ... that this is all about differing personality types, etc.

As the senior poster here at MB, you wield a pretty big stick, ****edit****, and I guess I need to know going forward if posters like myself, iam, Krazy and others can post our experiences, including the contradictions we've found along our journey's, (as long as they are within the terms of service) or if we are going to be shouted down and selectively deleted if we don't "toe the company line" ***edit***

You see, the way I see it is that we're ALL different, and who knows in the beginning which personality type will resonate with a particular poster. Therefore, ALL perspectives should be allowed to voice their experiences with the poster then being able to choose which plan or tactic best suits his particular personality and circumstances.

I believe that what Dr. Harley is saying is that the BS has the right to terminate the marriage if cheated on, but that if the BS chooses not to and wants his WW to return that he has a plan for how to do it based on his experience as a psychologist.

Unless I'm wrong, I interpret Dr. Harley saying that he doesn't think he could Plan A and forgive infidelity if he experienced it himself.

The fact of the matter is that a BS is the one who is the ultimate determinant on whether or not to save a marriage. Harley has a plan on how to get the wayward back and setup the betrayed to carry on with their lives.

Plan A isn't meant to be a long term thing, especially for betrayed husbands.

I also think that Plan A is often mistaken here as "love unconditionally and swallow your pride" when that's not the case at all.

Hunkering down and playing hardball is certainly in line with Plan A since you're letting the wayward know that you'll be happy to treat her like a wife when she starts behaving like one, but that until she does, then the stick of Plan A is in full effect.

Plan B is hard to do when you have litle kids.

Much easier when they're grown.

Which is EXACTLY why I am wondering why yo uare still here, since you dont believe what the good Dr. here says...and the Dr. here states he couldnt do it.

Why havent you gone elsewhere to see a different Dr.?

Your analogy does not make sense, though, because it does not take into account that many do not CHOOSE to save their marriages. Your analogy assumes that the doctor and patient both have the same goal. What is they DON'T?

Nor are most WS's "remorseful" after the affair. That is the exception, not the rule. It is an expectation that they usually are not. Yet, marriages are saved.

I've already answered that question for you.

I believe Plan A WILL work.....with a remorseful wayward.

I believe Exposure WILL end an affair.

I believe Plan B WILL ease the pain of a BS.

I just don't believe in Plan A'ing someone whose dropping their panties/pants on the floor for someone other than their spouse.

I've already answered that question for you.

I believe Plan A WILL work.....with a remorseful wayward.

I believe Exposure WILL end an affair.

I believe Plan B WILL ease the pain of a BS.

I just don't believe in Plan A'ing someone whose dropping their panties/pants on the floor for someone other than their spouse.

[/quote]

I think you should plan A so that they remember how good you were to them instead of only having their revisionist history to lean on. Even if they dont come back at least they will have more regrets through life.

You define 'saved' differently than I do then.

I, personality type that I am, wouldn't want a 'non-remorseful' wayward back. I deserve better.

Nonsense as usual. I believe that YOU were bickering with other posters on the thread who were advising Marty not to make ANY hasty decisions while under duress. If anyone was "bickering" it was YOU.

No we don't. Some choose to save their marriages, some don't. You still don't answer the question of differing goals or WHY someone who knows how plan A operates would not share that information with others. WHY NOT?

you are not making any sense, IAM and keep changing the argument. Why wouldn't anyone who knows about Plan A help others?

Thank you for your reply.

I have seen several of you post about "other" infidelity boards ... MB is the only infidelity board that I frequent, although at one time I participated in another that is now inactive ... can any of you recommend another infidelity board that advocates a stronger approach for BH's???