I'm considering if I should continue to go to conselor with W. Although we've only gone to a few joint sessions, and I've gone to two individual ones, no strategy seems to be emerging. Is this normal, or do marriage conselor's just take forever hoping that you'll solve the problems yourself? I was the one who initally pursued conseling, after suspecting W was the betrayer.<P>It seems as though I do all of the scheduling of the sessions. Although my W agreed to go to sessions, she doesn't show any enthusiasm (wrong word, I know), toward the sessions or their intent. <P>I'm trying to remain upbeat and positive, yet be realistic that things can be rebuilt. One thing has become clear, however. It seems that my W and I don't talk -- really talk about the "issues" -- outside of session. We're polite to each other, but it feels forced, artificial, and superficial. I know I'm always walking on egg shells. Soooo much to talk about, but so worried about how to approach it outside of session. Last time, it really hurt her. Not that that is bad -- it's part of the healing -- but it seems like it just shutdown real meaningful conversation. <P>We can't rebuild if there are secrets. I believe there are still some that she has to address. At least I think there are -- a question for another post, I guess.<P>It troubles me that we only talk through the sessions. Does this ever change? If we'll only talk to each other there, we'll never get this thing back together, will we? I would think that eventually we have to be able to communicate to each other without having the conduit of the conselor as our only means.<P>We're overdue for a session. I haven't scheduled it, and I haven't asked my W. I'm curious to see what W thinks about usefulness of sessions, but afraid to ask since I might come off as not being committed. Any advice?

I understand your concerns about counseling. My wife and I went on and off for over a year to one counselor and never seemed to accomplish much. We did have some phone sessions with Steve Harley. I liked his approach to dealing with our problems. My wife did not (I don't think she really wanted to solve our problems and I was probably in too much of hurry to solve our problems) so we quit calling him. I wish I knew of a successful counelor that we both could agree to see, but no such luck. I would encourage you to keep going as long as you can, as when I look back, I think it did help us to become better at communicating with each other. <P>Good luck and keep the faith.

keystone,<P>Looks like you had a double post and they deleted the other one, but I had replied!! Oops!<P>What I said was this: (hope I can remember with my befuddled head)...<P>You have every right to demand total honesty - without love busters, of course (a given). <P>If your counselor isn't really, truly helping, find another one. <P>I'd make the appt. whether she feels like it's helping or not. It does a couple of things: shows her you mean to save this marraige, and that you want to hear what she has to say. <P>Sometimes talking about "it" all the time is marital death... as in my case. If I could just learn to keep my mouth shut.<P>You sound like you're doing all the right things... <P>Best wishes<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

Thanks for the posts. Yes, Sheryl, I did delete one since my computer froze up. I had double posted in error.<P>I trying to stay positive about the counseling, but if only one of us is making an earnest attempt at making headway, it seems almost futile. I'll consider you're advice, guys.<P>Question: When does it seem that the talking outside of session begins? Talk without automatically being defensive, evasive, etc? Constructive talk. It just seems like it never happens anymore outsid3e of seesion, and I don't want to force it. Zip/"Truth or Lies" post talked of an approach his counselor gave him last night about talking one or two nights a week. Not too much, but enough to keep the channels open. Is that advice echoed here, too? How to I start to open that channel of communication without it appearing a threat?<P>

Keystone,<P>I just went to my first counseling meeting last night. I was expecting so much more. We were both terribly disappointed. I'm finding my best counseling is coming from my sister and H's mom who are my closest friends. If I have to keep myself sane, that's who are doing me the best good. My phone bill is going to be horrendous of course, all long distance! I think the counselor should have sights set on saving the marriage, and present a plan like what is on this site. Not to just keep opening up the same old wounds over and over. I wish you the best even tho I don't have an answer, just a TOTAL understanding of what you mean and the frustration. You almost want the counselor to stand up, as an objective stranger, and shake your spouse and tell them to come on and snap out of it, and ask them what the hell is their problem and really lay into them about how WRONG it is what they are doing and how much destruction it causes. Wouldn't that be nice. Ok, ok, that's dreamland and now I need to snap out of it.<P>God bless.

Hurt Bad,<BR>I think you need to step back and look at your contribution to your spouses affair. The counselors job isn't to take sides but is to help you both verbalize what you see as the problems and then work out a solution togther.<P>Remember affairs usually just don't happen, the happen because your spouse feels that have unmet needs(usually unless the spouse is just a louse!)

Hurtbad -- <P>I agree with RWD that it is the counselor's job to help you communicate so that the two parties can find the solution. What you and I have problems with is the lack of an apparent plan or strategy by the counselor.<P>My impression of the first session was just to provide backstory. This was an individual session (two, in fact) that just informed the counselor of my version of the situation. Remember that there are two sides to every story. Perhaps this talking could give you some insight to how you may or maynot have participated in your marriage's breakdown. <P>My W did only one individual session, which I guess is not surprising since I was the one that insisted counseling was necessary.<BR>Maybe I just had more to get off my chest.<P>I guess the first joint session was really the first chance for conselor to see if we were talking, and how we are communicating -- body language included. A personal offer of advice: Watch your H's body language -- it doesn't often lie!<P>My concern is that over the last few weeks, we haven't progressed beyond that inital step. The counselor has offered nothing in the way of a plan, he just listens. Making it worse, it seems, is that we only talk about the "issues" when in session. We don't seem to talk about the issues outside the room.<P>We talk about other stuff outside sessions, but it's more superficial. The essence of the real problems go untouched.<P>Nothing is going to happen fast, that we'll all agree to. At least nothing that will be a meaningful solution to the problem. It's just that a lack of a clear game plan is making continued counseling difficult to accept. Thank God for this website!!

Rebuilding will take time and be thankful you have at least that. I was not so lucky. The anger/resentment can kill the process...but if you are talking and making small steps, I wished I could of had at least that much success.<P>Do not be afraid to seek out another counselor. After 3 or four joint sessions you gut is trying to tell you something. Make sure you know the attitude of what your counselor is biased towards...THAT IS...is he or she biased to helping people recover or and stay together through hard work or...are they biased towards letting the marriage fall apart.<P>Understand where you therapist is coming from for the get-go!<P>Hope you make the journey back. The best to you!<P>

keystone - <P>A counselor should help you devise a strategy for saving your marriage. They work for you. <P>I saw a psychologist for several visits, but he was of no help in devising a strategy. Now I am seeing a Christian marriage counselor and the difference is incredible. She is proactive and challenges me with ideas and books I never would have discovered on my own. My wife won't go (her affair is over a year old and still active), so my counselor called her and wrote her (so far with no result, but my wife did not hang up on her). <P>You don't know me, so you don't know how much this experience has changed me and proven to me that there is a God. I am staying with my wife because of what 1 Corinthians 7:12-15 says. <P>Good luck. At least your wife talks to you somewhere.

Thanks for the post. I'll try to take advantage of that ability to talk. It's just so unfortunate that I didn't see the problems long ago, when talking was such an easy option.<P>It's the talking away from the sessions that is so difficult now. To be positive, constructive, and as suggested in another thread, non threatening. I don't know if we're avoiding it because the truth hurts, or because W is not ready to be forthcoming and admit affair. Again, maybe I'm being paranoid.

Please know that my H and I have looked at what the problems have been in the marriage and we have both come to the same conclusions. They are a combination of the normal things that happen to couples after kids come (you know, the sex drive etc.) and the fact that we had a horrible and stressful separation from eachother for 3 months because we moved to another state for a job offer he took, while I was trying to sell the house and find someplace to stay until our new one was built. We couldn't stay with him because he was in temporary residence provided by the company and it was just too small and we have dogs, and the duration was too short to find an apartment. During those 3 months I wasn't there to be his emotional support at a real hard time for him, SHE was. We both know it and we both know exactly what led up to this. Maybe that was why the counselor was so ineffective for us.<P>The problem is now he has crossed the line, and I know he still loves me, but he can't come to terms with separating himself from the OW. I'm not against counseling, but I do believe he did wrong for befriending someone of the other sex at a time when he was "weak"! He should have never put himself in that position and he knows it, but here we are and it can't be changed. He has told me that his affair is totally illogical, as is he has no choice in the matter! PLEASE! But because it is illogical, my feelings or anyone elses don't matter at this point. That is why a counselor right now won't do it for us. <P>I don't know if we'll work it out, some days seem so POSITIVE and some, like today, seem hopeless. I'm not saying joint counseling won't work for everyone, but there needs to be a plan and the cheater needs to be willing to try and to separate from the cheatee first to really see results. I don't have that yet, and it is still early (only 2 weeks since the discovery).<P>I'm sorry if I'm ranting, but I took offense to someone telling me I need to look at the reasons, cause been there done that and that's not the obstacle now. The obstacle seems to be the withdrawal he's not wanting to face. Maybe separate counseling would be the best thing at this point, until he's ready to rebuild our marriage, or not.

Know what you mean. I'm not convinced that my W is REALLY trying to make the counseling thing work. She says she's for it, but after so many years together, I know when she's committed. Right now, she's not.<P>If it was only easier to communicate outside of the sessions. I want to say that I think I love her. How do I say that? On one hand, I THINK I do, but I'm having a hard time trusting. And, at the same time, I want to stay positive, and give every effort to rebuilding our relationship.<P>On the otherhand, I'm afraid to come on to strong. I'm reluctant to touch her or show any affection since she said the one time I touched her (after confronting her about possible affair), she siad it "repulsed" her. "Repulse" doesn't leave much to the imagination!<P>Some days, I'm in a good mood. Feeling positive, sure that this will get back on track. Like you, my day today SUCKS! After seeing her watch "Once and Again" last night, I'm imagining her feeling that divorce isn't so bad. <P>Still haven't approached her about rescheduling next consel session. Still not sure if I want to without his lack of a "plan" and my W's uncertain demeanor.