Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our discussion forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 26
L
Member
OP Offline
Member
L
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 26
I have posted recently regarding my own sitch but today at work has opened a whole new can of worms in regards to memories and putting all this behind me.

I am the HR Director in Australia for a large global company. A few weeks back there was gossiping going on with the staff relating to a manager and one of her junior staff members having an affair. She is married with 2 small children and has been affiliated with the company for 13 years in one way or the other.

I investigated the sitch and at the time did not have any evidence to refute both of them 'claiming there was nothing going on and that they were just friends.' At this point I sat her down and explained that it was not ethical to 'be friends' with her staff and she needed to keep it on a purely professional basis.

Another senior manager has brought me her phone account today and there has been very excessive contact between the 2 of them. I expect she needs to contact him but this is over the top.

She is currently on leave returning in 2 weeks so in the meantime I am going to get into her email and go through them all.

I am completely disgusted she is a senior member of my staff and given what I have gone through with my own husband I have every intention of firing both of them.

Perhaps I am over reacting due to my own sitch?? This time of year is tough for me due to D-Day and this has caused all sorts of triggers for me and I am really stressed out over this.

If it had happened prior to my own D-Day I know I could have dealt with it in a professional, logical and rational manner - there is no way this is going to be the case.

I have considered stepping out of the situation and letting the CEO handle it but it really isnt his job its mine. I was not employed by this company during my sitch (due to interstate move to facilitate a fresh start and recovery) and I really dont want to have to rehash it in a discussion with him.

This is going to be a very tough time for me cause I am going to hear all the same fog babble, lies and denial and it is going to bring everything flooding back. As I am struggling with D-DAy at the moment I have been having my own doubts about my marriage and if we are truely in recovery so this is NOT what I needed right now.

Any advice or tips on how to handle myself during this woudl be greatly appreciated.

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 984
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 984
Littlepeanuts,

I have been in the same situation many times as I work in corporate compliance and am a labor attorney by training. I don't think you are overreacting because of your personal situation. If anything, I think that, initally, you were underreacting by not conducting a complete investigation. Phone records, e-mail accounts and expense statements should always be reviewed in allegations of this type to make sure you have all the facts and to judge the credibility of the witnesses. In our company, what goes on between consenting adults will not be an issue so long as it does not affect the work environment. Very often it will because if it is a supervisor and subordinate involved in the relationship, the subordinate could be receiving favorable treatment at the expense of others in the work group...discrimination of sorts. Another possibility is that the two are using corporate time and corporate resources to conduct their affar - in other words, protection of corporate assets is your goal. Finally, if you interviw them and they deny there is anything going on between them and, then, you look at their e-mails and there is, they have lied during the course of an investigation. In my company THAT will get you fired, whereas the affair will not - they'll just separate the two so one doesn't report to the other and there's not chance for one to affect the other's career.

I don't think you should worry about overreacting....its your job to investigate the allegations thoroughly and completely.

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by littlepeanut77
I am completely disgusted she is a senior member of my staff and given what I have gone through with my own husband I have every intention of firing both of them.

Perhaps I am over reacting due to my own sitch?? This time of year is tough for me due to D-Day and this has caused all sorts of triggers for me and I am really stressed out over this.

lp, how do you feel you are overreacting? It looks to me like you are behaving very professionally and doing what it takes to protect your company legally. This affair places your company at legal risk so of course, you have an obligation to investigate.

What is your company policy regarding workplace affairs? In my current and last company adulterers were terminated. [suspension, then termination upon investigation] Our senior employee was fired and escorted off the premises by an armed guard. Adultery is so destructive in so many ways.

You sound to me like an ENLIGHTENED person who is taking rational steps to deal with a very REAL legal risk to your company. I don't think that is overreaction, but the RIGHT reaction.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
yeah, BritsBrat! So glad you posted about this since this is right up your alley! smile


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 26
L
Member
OP Offline
Member
L
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 26
I investigated initially when the office talk was happening and I could not subtantiate it with hard evidence. I have the evidence now and I just need to wait for her to return from leave.

The company policy is that managers do not engage in this manner with the staff but in saying that one of our managers got his wife a job here (before my time in the top seat as I would have frowned upon it).

If it had happened prior to D-Day I would have addressed it the same way I am now, they would be dismissed - perhaps calmer though. The main issue is I am angry!!!! I can be fairly confrontational and over the years I haev learnt to tone this down but in this sitch I can see myself losing my temper.

I have contacted IT to get access to both of their email this will take 24 hrs to happen. The CEO is back from leave on Monday so I need to discuss a plan of attack with him also.

Her poor husband I know if I fire her she will lie to him. I feel I should tell him but then professionally it isnt my place to take it beyond the workplace. I discovered my WHs A on my own and as she is doing it with her work phone he would have no idea what is going on.

Do I tell the husband or just worry about how this effects the company. I feel terrible because I have been there.






Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,464
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,464
Originally Posted by littlepeanut77
Do I tell the husband or just worry about how this effects the company. I feel terrible because I have been there.

I would tell him.


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by littlepeanut77
The main issue is I am angry!!!! I can be fairly confrontational and over the years I haev learnt to tone this down but in this sitch I can see myself losing my temper.

Well, decent people are SUPPOSED to get angry at injustice! That is a sign of decency, but I can understand your fear about acting on it. Just the fact that you are concerned about it tells me you are aware of the problem

I would ask BritsBrat about telling her husband, but if she doesn't think you should tell him in your official capacity, I would secretly get the word to him behind the scenes - without using your name. You have lots of friends here who would do it and they would never know it came from you.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,455
H
Member
Offline
Member
H
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,455
littlepeanut,
I have just exposed my H and his direct report at work. The sad part is that I work there also and all of this has been going on while I was here.

Code of ethics which we sign every year says that it is against company policy for any inappropriate relationship between supervisor and their chain of command. As an employee it puts me at risk NOT to report it since I was aware of this situation since it is unethical behavior.

In inappropriate affair could open up a corporation for a sexual harrassment charge.

I know this is bringing up feelings of anger because of your own sitch but figure that by following procedure you are being cheered on by the bS on this board. It is the right thing to do.

As for telling her husband -- do not tell him. You only need to follow your business procedure. You could open yourself up for liability by letting her spouse know.


Me 55, XWH 53, M 22 years
D17, D30
alien replaces my husband "I'm not happy" -7/08
Discover OW-8/08 (his direct report and I work there also)
H moves out 10/1/08, confront Ow 10/28/08
Plan B 1/09
D final 12/09

Quote: "First thing you do is pray; when there is nothing else to do, continue to pray."
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 26
L
Member
OP Offline
Member
L
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 26
ML what i endured was the most painful experience of my life and this has brought it all flooding back.
Brits your thoughts on if i should expose to her husband will be appreciated.
One of my major concerns is a sexual harassment claim from her to him so she can squirm out of this.

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 26
L
Member
OP Offline
Member
L
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 26
I also have the added concern of the bonuses that he has received during this may not be legitimate. She allocates accounts to her subordinates and them they commissions on the revenue generated.
I am collating the data but at first glance he hasnt missed target for sometime yet other team members have fluctuated. It is looking uglier as company funds may have been misappropriated also.
I knew given the nature of my job this was bound to come ur eventually but i didnt think i would get this emotional about it

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 26
L
Member
OP Offline
Member
L
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 26
oh and sorry if these last few posts are all over the place. I am doing it from my blackberry and i am a little illiterate when it comes to this stuff lol

Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 15,284
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 15,284
lp,

Brit I am sure can give you better advice, but I don't think you can expose to this woman's H. While you have access to all of her information stored on companies computers, my guess there is still a privacy issue with regard to an employee releasing it to anyone not in appropriate chain of command. Be careful there.

On the other hand when CEO gets back, perhaps a private meeting with this woman and her H as to why she is being terminated might be appropriate with the CEO present or with his/her blessing. That might address the issue of her H finding out.

It seems to me if she is calling this man much more than she is calling any of her other employees, and there are incriminating emails, and he is the only one consistantly receiving bonus via her recommendations, you have a variety of reasons to let them go. Just stick with the data and the statistics and I suspect you won't be tempted to show your anger and her foolishness.

God Bless,

JL

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 707
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 707
Originally Posted by Just Learning
On the other hand when CEO gets back, perhaps a private meeting with this woman and her H as to why she is being terminated might be appropriate with the CEO present or with his/her blessing. That might address the issue of her H finding out.

Oh, that is GOOD! I like it...but be careful. Might want to speak with your company legal council before going down that route.

Your company has an employment agreement / contact with the WW, not the BS. Inviting him in for a meeting like that might be crossing some sort of magic line.

I still like the idea, however, something deep down inside me says "proceed with caution."

LP: I do not think you are overreacting. In fact, I think you are the PERFECT person to be handling a situation like this! You understand the damage an A can have on both WW and the OM -- they will be in the fog. Do you really want someone in a fog to be making decisions for your company?

You will look at this objectively, examine all the facts and make a decision based on your professional judgement. The company hired you to be the HR person because of your skill set, personal strengths and experience.

Be strong.


D-Papers served May 8th, 2009
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
The BH needs to know. An anonymous tip that can't be traced back to you.

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,025
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,025
Though I'm an attorney also, I have no idea what the legalities are in this situation. However, firing them both may just lead to the affair's continuance.

What about a suspension for two weeks (under the pretense you are investigating the matter), wherein you direct her to report back to you for a meeting and she is required to bring her husband? That way...she HAS to tell him and "no contact" can be a condition to the suspension. You fire her anyway (based upon the results of the invesigation), but perhaps you've given her marriage a jump start at recovery. Fairness may dictate you merely suspend her OM for the time being too. I presume he's not married but you can't very well fire the subordinate and retain his manager. Suspending him will motivate him to maintain "no contact" as well.

If she thinks she has a shot at retaining her job...she'll do whatever she can to accomplish that, especially in today's job market.

Mr. Wondering

p.s.- Are suspensions paid time off??? If so, it may be cheaper to just fire her and offer to have the company pay the tuition cost to send her and her husband to an MB weekend. $1,000 versus two weeks paid salary for both of them. Then again...you said Australia, never mind.


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 812
K
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 812
Kudos to you for being willing to handle this in the right way!

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by littlepeanut77
I also have the added concern of the bonuses that he has received during this may not be legitimate. She allocates accounts to her subordinates and them they commissions on the revenue generated.
I am collating the data but at first glance he hasnt missed target for sometime yet other team members have fluctuated. It is looking uglier as company funds may have been misappropriated also.
I knew given the nature of my job this was bound to come ur eventually but i didnt think i would get this emotional about it

She would be fired for sure at my current company and my last. They are/were both Fortune 500 companies. She is a loose cannon who can't be trusted and has abused her authority. That is why we fire people like that. They are a walking legal liability.

Not only that, but other employees would know about the affair [they always do!] so this manager cannot effectively manage people again.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,108
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,108
If you suspend both APs and tell them you are investigating inappropriate conduct, they may just crack. Take away their cell phones and lap tops if they are company property and cut off all computer access in case there are hidden folders with pictures or letters. Let them know that phone records, emails, etc will be examined and provide them the citations from the employee workbook of areas that may have been violated. Give them the opportunity to "come clean" to avoid further embarrassment. One or both may quit vs waiting to be fired. That way you don't have to worry about all the legalities of firing and don't have to pay unemployment benefits either. A lot of people guilty of violating workplace policies will quit if they think the outcome looks bleak and don't want a firing on their record.


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 984
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 984
Littlepeanuts,

I would be very careful about telling this woman's husband and would consult with your Company's legal department before doing so. Here in the US, HR issues/discipline/reasons for termination are only shared with the person involved as it could lead to allegations of libel and slander, etc. if others are told. I also believe Australia has privacy laws that may impact what you can tell to whom about employees.

Regards,

BB

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 27,069
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 27,069
I would be willing to bet that the email will tell all. Affairees always feel that they are entitled to do whatever feels good.

Affairs in the workplace are always bad for morale. The other employees find out and resent it.

Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
1 members (1 invisible), 127 guests, and 48 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
caraduke, Convict20, GTNY, Avianna, BootsJeans
71,736 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics133,550
Posts2,322,804
Members71,737
Most Online3,185
Jan 27th, 2020
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2020, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.  |  Web Development by SunStar Media.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5