Hey Rin!

Not to worry,,,,while V is a bit of an annoyance, that is all it is at this point in time. I'll yell if it gets worse and you all can come have a 'chat' with him! LOL!

Yes, I do think that R does have integrity. I've seen it over the years through business, but am learning more about it/him on a personal level day by day. He owns some investment/rental property. I've seen how he deals with his tenants,,,and I am even more impressed than ever. He's not only fair, but quite generous. The fact that he has virtually a zero turnover rate in occupancy speaks volumes in that regard!

Again, am taking it as slow as I can, knowing that these things take time.

I mentioned yesterday that Drac is seeing the co-worker ho again. Well yesterday morning, Ladybugs had a bit of a meltdown. She's always a bit more 'clingy' with me after a weekend at Drac's, but she seemed fairly good Sunday night. In an unusual move for me, I actually asked about Drac and Ho2 to which she replied, "that's none of your business, Mom".

Yikes! I told her that she was right and we dropped the subject. Yesterday morning she was being particularly difficult about doing her hair. It got to the point where I put down the brush and told her that she needed to do it herself and I walked away. She knew I was upset and immediately starting crying, telling me she was sorry.

She came in to me and we talked,,, but she really had herself worked up. She apologized for being mean, and then went on to say how she didn't want to leave me. Asking to please stay home with me for the day. We got through that and she started talking about how all weekend they had to 'run, run, run' with Daddy.

"He made us go to K's house. I didn't want to go to K's house. I just wanted to stay home with Daddy. But he called us brats. He said that he NEVER gets to do what HE wants to do because we always do what WE want"

WHAT?? WTF???? This man does what he wants EVERY day of his life! How DARE he try to make the kids feel guilty like that because of a Ho!

We talked through it and she perked up. I did error in telling her that it wasn't true that he "never" gets to do what he wants,,,,that he does get to (just like me) do what he wants when she is not with him. In the car, she commented that she thought he was 'always home' when she wasn't with him. I told her no, that is not the case. She asked me where he went/what he did. I replied that I don't know, and that like she pointed out the night before, it's really none of my business. I told her that I shouldn't ask questions about him, and I'm sure he doesn't ask questions about me.

She replied, "Mommy, I meant that only about when it comes to K. And Daddy does too ask questions about you. I just tell him I don't know and then I go upstairs".

I told her that she knows I've always said that she doesn't have to lie or keep secrets for me. That if she is asked any questions it's ok to just tell the truth. She obviously feels the need to 'keep secrets' for me, and she told me as much. Again, I assured her that all along we've talked about this and I never want her to feel like she has to lie on my behalf. I don't want her to feel caught in the middle in any way.

Which is why I feel so BAD about having asked a question. I should not have done that. I'm not sure where it came from, as it's been AGES since I've asked her anything about him. GRRR! Even as far as I've come, I still stumble back from time to time.

Luna, I'm glad that my posts have been helpful. As you say, the interactions DO get easier with time. It's also better when the settlement issues are complete and the interactions are less confrontational and less 'important' to us. You are doing great!

Well, even though it's a snow day here, I need to get to work!

Bugsy:

How are you! and Happy Belated Birthday!

However, I wanted to ask you about this:

If Drac is dating HO2, is she an after or before the Divorce HO?
If before, I can understand why you wouldn't necessarily want to ask about her or put Ladybugs in the position to have to tell your to "MYOB!".

However, if she was later, even if she and HO1 were "friends" thier relationship now is just a fact of life. Asking about that should be ok. And a topic that you may not want to explore often, but Ladybugs should be somewhat free to talk about her experiences while there.

Obviously, the real problam is Drac and his revolving door of HO's and thier exposure to Ladybugs. The cumulative negative effect of THAT on Ladybugs is starting to show. I don't even want to think where DSS is in all this.

One thing is your personal mental health. What DO you want to know? Not much, I'm sure. But Ladybugs needs to have your listening board, about HER concerns.

Oh well, its early. And I have to run. Taxes wait for NO snow. I would/could say more.

LG

Well, goodness, Bugsy, you're not perfect, woman!!!

So you asked a question about Drac. It caused a commotion. You resolved it. You did just fine. It's NORMAL to be curious.

I don't ask DS about his dad, specifically, when he's away, just if he had fun or did something of interest. At one point last week, DS "that's none of your business" to which I replied, "your well being IS my business, and I can't know how you are doing without asking; your choice in how you answer".

The truth is, Bugsy, it IS my business what DS does, where he does it, who he does it with, just as it is the Z's business. It is not, however, my business what the Z does. There is a difference.

You talked it out and got to the bottom of her reaction with Ladybugs and that makes all the difference in the world.

Schools are closed today, for the smidge of a dusting that we are getting right now :RollieEyes: It does look like we are expecting ICE later, though, so I can understand.

Bugs - you're doing really well.

But there's one thing you're missing in this "none-of-my-business" train of thought.

Your daughter is emotionally upset and wanting to miss school because of what ever is going on at Drac's house. It is SO your business to ask whatever questions gets to the bottom of your daughter's distress. She wants you to care enough about HER to ask if everything is ok- especially when obviously she's upset by it.

There's a radio spot running locally that's sponsored by a church that ends with "Mom; Dad - care enough about us to ask the tough questions." - they're using the example of teens going on dates, staying out too late, or addressing teen attitudes toward drinking and smoking and drugs. But little ones like ladybugs need you to care enough to ask the tough questions too.

So don't ever be afraid to ask. Drac is nothing to you now. But your daughter is everything!

Oh snow day, snow day,,,,makes me want to play day!

Not much in the mood for work!

Thanks for the input everyone. Let me assure you that I definately DO ask questions specific to Ladybug and what goes on with HER when she is not with me. She also knows that it is 'safe' to talk about anything or any ONE that is around. Even when Ho1 was around, I expended a great deal of effort to make sure that she felt safe sharing,,,,,,,,,,and let me tell you there were times that it made my physically ill to do it, but I did it, nevertheless.

My 'no questions' rule pertains more to Drac and his revolving door of women. At least weekly, if not more often, he changes his communication with Ladybug because he has a "work dinner". Yeah,,,,sure,,,,,,,Lord, if these were ALL work dinners it's no wonder that our company needs to make cut backs!

LG, you hit the nail on the head with your comment about what DSS is going through being there virtually 24/7. He never says a word about that stuff, but I know that it bothers him. He's faced daily with coming in 2nd or 3rd in Drac's life to work and women.

Drac just sent me a copy of DSS's report card. The best I can say is that he is passing. Drac made a big deal of how he called & talked to the counselor,,,,,got DSS involved 2-3x per week in after school tutoring. Report card shows that 1 grade came up from failing to a C. One grade improved to a c+, but THREE grades went DOWN!!! What??

I did email Drac and try to 'nicely' ask what is going on. Here's how I worded it.

"Thanks for sending this. Is he going to continue with after school help? What's your take on the setup/process/people involved?
I am sure you are as concerned as I am to see that despite the help, only 2 grades went up while 3 went down. Thank goodness he tested well"

His reply was that no, he is not continuing the after school tutoring. He said it did not 'address the concerns he had' and was basically just a study hall. All it did help him cut down distractions to get his homework done. He says that DSS's biggest problem is organization, getting work done and then turned in.

The only other comment was that he has already discussed with DSS that he will be attending summer school.

Nothing about WHAT he is doing to help DSS at all. Sending him to summer school helps Drac,,,in that DSS isn't home alone as much of the summer. GRRR! I hate that my hands are tied here.

Heaven forbid that Drac step up to the plate on a daily basis. I know that Drac's take is that at 14, DSS should be doing more of this on his own,,,,but gosh darn it WHO is the parent here? Coulda/shoulda/woulda, the kid needs help!

To further my Drac frustrations, he forwarded me an email about his aunt who is in the hospital. I replied that I am very concerned, including concern over her daughter's ability to handle the dr's & to manage her mom's care. His reply was that he talked to the daughter, she knows she is in over her head, but the problem is the 'family' butting in and the aunt talking bad about her own daughter.

It's so funny that he goes back & forth about his family. One minute they are such a 'pain', the next he is upset (at me) because he 'had' to move away from them. Right now he is too busy with work & women. As he has ho2 to talk to about things, I get little to nothing. If ho2 exits the picture (again), I'll be getting phone calls and lengthy messages again.

So, for my own mental health, interactions cease for a while,,, at least any of my own instigation.

And, to top off my email fun today, there was one from V. Apparently he is starting chemo treatment and really wants to see me before his hair falls out. He talks about his sitch being worse than he realized,,,,but that he will fight & win. Also he tells me about a woman he's met & is starting to date (she, too, has cancer). Finally, he wraps up with not wanting to die before he can say 'goodbye' to people who have meant the most to him & I am on the top of the list??

What do I do with that???

Ok, snow day or not, perhaps work will be easier to deal with than this stuff!

YIKES!! This is weirddddddd. So he's dating someone new but he HAS to SEE you to say goodbye???? Can we say manipulation?

Bugs, you do see this for what it is don't you?

Too bad you can't block his email.

If he really does have cancer and is really that bad, I would think stalking you would be at the bottom of his list right now.

Again weirdddddddd.

I am with PM...YIKES!!

Sounds he's pulling on some 'guilt' strings.

How would YOU feel about politely declining request?

Hey Bugs,

The challenges you have now are nothing compared to what you have already been through and conquered. I know you will breeze right through these too.

Drac? What can I say. The real Drac has stood up and shown his true colors. I honestly think you will be better off in the long run, because I don't think he will ever "get it." Just like my brother. Will keep the cycle of M/D until he finds the perfect one. We know the perfect one will never come, but they just don't see it. UGH

V sounds a bit unstable. Cancer? Is this a new thing? He wants a pity party.

Hang in Bugs, and don't forget to let me know when you are in Columbus again....

I figured it was about time to Bug Bomb my own thread.

As you can see, I obviously couldn't sleep and was up at 4:30 a.m. today. I'm not sure what is up with that?! Oh well, it gave me time to catch up with a lot of you. I try to read everyday so I don't get too far behind with everyone, but I seldom have time to post.

It seems like so much has been going on in my life, but when it comes time to post it doesn't seem like much to talk about.

There's been a few text messages from V, but nothing for 4 whole days! I am hoping that has finally burned out. I 'hope' he's figured out that the pity party\manipulation technique does not work with me. I don't wish him ill, I just wish him to go away.

Drac has been Mr. Chatty Guy lately. CALLING me to talk vs emailing. It's really feeling weird. Monday he called 3x. He has to change his schedule with Ladybug next week due to work travel so he called to tell me. I simply said to confirm the dates/times and let me know. Period.

He called again later to confirm the dates/times,,,and then proceeded to ask me about the best travel options. Drive or fly, etc.

He called again later to switch some of the times. That turned into 15 minutes of talk about work. As some of you may know, our company is going through a major restructure. It's impacted many of my good friends/co-workers across the country, and includes some mutual friends/co-workers of mine & Drac's. And, as he remains in his position, it's impacting Drac as well.

He went on about various things and the call somehow disconnected after about 15 minutes. I figured no big deal and went on about my business. He called BACK. The work conversation continued, until he said, "Well, that is enough serious discussion. So what's up with you rooting for the Steelers for Super Bowl?"

WTF?

He then proceeded with an entire discussion about the game?! I finally was so weirded out that I told him I had another call & I had to go. Yesterday included several emails from him about work & Ladybug. Weird.

So, with all of that, I'm sure you all are sitting there wondering WHY in the world am I even talking to him?

Frankly, I've asked myself the same question.

The only answer I have is that I just can't seem to help myself.

It's not that I want him back. It's not that I want to be his friend (because even not wanting him back, he can still easily hurt me & I do NOT want to know about the revolving Ho Door activities).

A friend mentioned something to me the other day that I've been thinking about. There is a movie with Tom Cruise where he is a bartender (I know the name of the movice, but apparently it is now a CENSORED word here!) where she draws Tom Cruise back,,,,gets him to her house just so she can throw him out??? Maybe that's what I'm doing? I'm not sure, but I do know that doing that would be SWEEEEET! ha!

So, Drac aside, work is very depressing and stressful. Then yesterday I get a call that a VP of a different sales segment wants to talk to me about coming to work for him. I 'think' it's a good thing, so I am exploring the option. I don't know when I'll know more, but hopefully soon.

At the very least, I can take it to mean that even if my current position is getting eliminated, SOMEBODY in the company wants me to stay.

That reminds me,,,,,in an email yesterday, Drac asked me if I'd been approached about some of the 'pilots' that are happening around the company soon. I told him that I'd been approached about some different options.

He asked, "Local or abroad".

I replied, "Mixed Bag"

Let him put that in his pipe and smoke it. I will admit to rather enjoying making him 'wonder' a bit about MY life for a change!

So, good news (I think) on the work front so I can breathe a bit easier there. And things continue to go well with R. He is coming here for this weekend. The weather is supposed to be wonderful, so I'm trying to decide between a trip up the river road to watch the Bald Eagles OR a trip to some local wineries. Either way, I know it's going to be fun.

(((BugHug)))

Drac seems to get cozy like this in waves. I think he must be sensing something about V or R.

He sees the others sniffing around and wants to know whats going on. The kids have probabaly mentioned V or R to him and now he's picqued.

Personally I don't think he deserves your friendliness.
I'd like to see him with more consequences.....

Thanks for the update, Bugs!! You sound so great.

Weird stuff with Drac - there must be NoHo at the moment.

Take care, my friend, your personal recovery has been inspiring to "watch"

Fox

Hi Bugs,


When I read this, Bugs, it seems to me you left it a bit too open-ended.... so, just wondering and, playing the devil's advocate, even though it may be short-lived knowing Drac's track record, are you saying that you still enjoy talking to Drac? ..still appreciate having his attention? Drac valuing your opinion?

...because if so, sounds like Drac is answering some 'need'....the only problem is...you can't count on Drac to be a 'stable' source!

...sorry if I am totally off the mark with this, Bugs.

Hey Bugs,

What's happening? You sure have been quiet lately.

I could use a little wisdom from you right now..

Hey everyone!

It's been pretty crazy lately with a lot of travel,,,both personal and work. I was with R over the weekend and am at the airport now returning home from business. The best part of this trip was also fitting in seeing R, too!

Nothing much really 'new'. Work is still a bit in turmoil, but I just keep doing what I do. The structure & changes will be whatever they will be. I have my 2008 review tomorrow. Am hoping for something decent for my year end bonus,,,,,,keep your fingers crossed for me!! Although it 'should' be a black & white decision based on the actual numbers, there is always a bit of back & forth and discretion done.

Ladybugs is good, as is DSS. Although we had an incident last week when I found out that Ladybugs found a totally inappropriate UNMARKED video tape in her closet at Drac's house and did watch it for a minute! YIKES!! It was all I could do not to come totally unglued at Drac! Of course he totally denies having that sort of thing at his house. What a load of crapola! I seriously doubt it magically appeared. I will say it is possible that it was something DSS had, but again - TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE for him, too!! UGH!!

Luna, you may be right in that I do get some need met by talking to Drac. I think that it's a boost to me to know that despite his actions he does value my opinion about some things. It makes me laugh when it happens now. But, I don't want it to be a regular thing as it would eventually drain me & hurt me. I don't need that!

He called me yesterday. He's misplaced his dad's prescription benefit card & thought perhaps he'd sent me the wrong one when he sent me a card for Ladybugs. It could have easily been an email question, but he called. He also wanted to let me know he's paid off our timeshare and needs me to sign a quit claim on it. I don't know what he expected, but I simply told him to have it drawn up and sent to me. I didn't ask any questions or open up the conversation at all. Stuck to the facts & ended the call. He sounded disappointed.

He's seeing the same Ho2 from our work. It really bugs me for some reason. I do wonder if it were someone NOT from our work if I'd feel any different? I tell myself it is because of us all working at the same place.

Ooops! I gotta run,,,time to board!

Yikes is right. We try so hard to keep our little ones from being exposed to that smut but sometimes we just can't. What'd you tell her about it?

Your story reminded me of something that happened to my daughter BF when she was about 8. Seems her parents like to fool around with the video recorder. One day she comes bouncing in the living room where her dad was sitting and asked if they could watch a video together. He said sure, so she went to the cabinet and pulled one out.

She sits down on the couch and pushes the "play" button on the remote. You guessed it. It wasn't a children's video. She said her dad nearly knocked her backwards off the couch trying to get to the remote to turn it off before she could see more of mommy and daddy starring in their own video.

Hi Bugs,

You sound happy and I'm glad you popped in to give us a short update. I always love hearing how you are doing and coping. I think that the depth of love for our H is very similar and if so, I can imagine how hard the pain of all this has been on you.

Do you notice with your conversations with Drac that he is defogging at all or because he seems to be occupying his time with OW2 he is still running hard?

Oh MY Miss Meggy! What a story THAT was!!

I did talk to Ladybugs and let her lead the way as to what was 'necessary' to discuss and what wasn't. The truth is the thing she was MOST worried about was me telling Drac & that he would be mad.

We talked about what is appropriate & what is not for her,,,something that we do on a regular basis with lots of movies & tv programs. She KNOWS what is and isn't appropriate. She knows where I stand and does 'self' edit what she watches, which I am very glad of!

I had to tell her that Drac & I had to discuss it,,,,but I spent an inordinate amount of time making sure he wasn't going to come down on her in any way. It was one of the few times I felt it necessary to try to influence their realtionship/interaction. I did it for HER, not for HIM.

It's funny (and sad) that the other night she was lamenting not getting me anything for Christmas, my birthday or Valentine's Day. I kept assuring her that her homemade cards/gifts are better than anything, but she wasn't consoled. I offered to have my Mom help her,,,but she believes that it's not just from HER if that happens,,,and she doesn't want Grandma to 'remind' her about any holidays either. She said that she should remember and do it herself. I explained that at her age, EVERYONE needs help,,,,and I mentioned that even though I helped her & DSS with Drac's Christmas gift, that the gift was from THEM and that was made it special to him.

Her reply, "It's not the same. Because Mommy's are MORE special than ANYTHING!"

It was all I could do not to cry!

Queenie, I don't know if Drac is de-fogging or going back to being the person who was my H or not. I haven't let myself really think about it.

I can tell you this. He has not DONE anything to make me believe that is the case. And you know, as well as I do that it's ALL about the ACTIONS.

Although surprisingly this afternoon, he sent me a 'funny' email. He forwarded it, but erased who he got it from.

I don't get it. I don't care to try to 'get' it. It's not any action that matters at all to me.

Instead, I occupy my time with getting regular text messages & calls from R. I get one every morning when it's my usual wake up time and one every night. I get them throughout the day,,,,even if it's just a smiley face that let's me know he is thinking of me.

It's really nice.

I will admit to sometimes thinking about how it was very similar with Drac at the beginning of our relationship, too. Then, I catch myself. Is that I sign of still caring about Drac? Or is it just 'normal'. I don't know. I'm ok with thinking that it's just the way it is for me right now.

I gotta get off here,,,,Ladybugs has a friend over & I need to check up on them and make some dinner.

Am making beignets & chicory coffee for Mardi Gras breakfast in the morning. Muffalotta's(sp?) for lunch. Red beans & rice, shrimp creole & jambalya for dinner!! I can't wait!!

Have a great weekend everyone!

Bugsy!

Glad to see you back! Even better to find out WHY you were missing! Hope you had some fun!

Your tale about the tape and Ladybugs just makes me think: "GUYS! Just PUT it AWAY! Doesn't matter WHO the stars are, put it someplace that YOU HAe to look for it.... Sheesh."

You have had the disussion with Drac? And that was where you were trying to influence thier relationship? Personally, if you were Flamingo and I had left a tape out, it wouldn't have been a discussion, it would have been: "You stupid ###@@$%!!!" Not much discussion going on....

THAT is what you should make clear to Ladybugs. DRAC is the one who made the mistake. Ladybugs saw something that she shouldn't have, and Drac's lack of attention is what caused this error. Ladybugs is to be protected by her parents from things that she isn't supposed to see or do. You lock up the cleaning solutions or put them on the top shelf, so something stupid doesn't happen. THAT is Drac's failure. Not Ladybugs. And yes, you need to talk with Drac about it. So that he can clean up the rest of his place. And if it's DSS's stuff, then Drac needs to have some conversations with him.

Sorry that Ladybugs can't get "you" a present. I mean the little 8 year old wants to walk down to the "big store" and take care of it herself. That is really great. And you should have cried. What a great memory that will be for you.

I wanted to comment on this...
No, its NOT A SIGN OF CARING ABOUT DRAC. Yeech. Its a sign that you have learned SO MUCH here at MB. That the early time in the relationship is so good. And HOW important it is that you CONTINUE those actions. And work with "R" to make sure that HE continues those actions after the relationship matures a little.

You have a Great weekend as well. Your menu sounds terriffic. I'll be having frozen Lean Cuisines.....Such is the life of the office bound accountant at this time of year....

LG

Hi LG!

Glad you came out the depths of the piles of papers for a break & a post!

Were you a fly on the wall during my conversations with Ladybugs and Drac? Because you hit the points that I did.

I stressed to Ladybugs that is IS about our job as her PARENTS to protect her. And yes, what happened was not HER fault, but Drac's because he did not properly protect her.

I told him the same thing,,,along with a few other choice things that basically boiled down to the fact that I don't care about anything but him protecting her by putting it away where she can't possibly ever get her hands on it!

I think you are right, too, about how nice things are in the beginning of a new relationship. How important those little thigs are to do,,,,and to KEEP on doing. R and I have talked about things like that. I've shared MB philosophy with him,,,but haven't moved to sharing HN/HN YET. I fully intend to if/when the time is right.

I asked him yesterday if he has always been such an attentive guy and told him how much it means to me that he lets me know he is thinking about me. I think we have BOTH decided that any relationships we have now are going to be different than those of our past,,,,because we have learned from our mistakes and we don't want to repeat them.

As we've often talked about here, it's the 'next' person in our lives that will benefit from all we have learned & tried to do in the attempt to save our marriges. It 'could' have been our WS's benefit, but they chose to walk away.

Their loss!

Looking out the window it is cold and a bit snowy. Glad we are staying home today!

Enjoy that Lean Cuisine for now,,,,then treat yourself to a wonderful night out on April 15!

Bugs,

Just dropping in to say hi and I have been lurking and keeping an eye on all my killerbees friends.

Wanted to just tell you I am so happy for you and your new relationship. You are doing marvolous (sp?)

Still