Hi everyone. I can honestly say that I am not happy to be here. But am am looking forward to getting support and advice from you all on here. Here is the short version of my situation.

DH and I have been married for 8 years and together for 13. I am 30 he is 29. I was his first and only partner. We tried for kids, had 5 miscarriages, adopted 3 wonderful children from Ukraine, got pregnant unplanned and now have our miracle baby boy who is 10 months old. DH and I, since having children, have grown a little distant, had normal marrital problems, but have always got along great for the most part. He has always been such a wonderful christian man who I could always depend on. A few months ago, he started acting really weird. We started to fight more and he was saying really harsh things to me. At that point he decided to go to his step sister for advice (also married, has 3 children, but her DH moved out to live with another woman) Step sister has been DH's sister for the past 22 years. They have always been close, but I never thought anything of it. DH started staying overnight at her house a few months ago and that is when I noticed major problems in our marriage. He finally told about 2 months ago that he wanted out of the marriage and that he no longer had feelings for me. I was devestated. I knew that the SS had everything to do with it. I confronted him and he said they were just close and he could confide in her. Well, to make a long story short, he finally came out and told me that he had an "emotional" affair with her. About a week later SS's DH called me and told me that it was a lot more to it. I confronted DH and he admitted it to me and he told me that he loved her and not me. The sad part is, is that not only is he losing me and the ability to be a Daddy to his kids everyday, he is losing his extended family as well. No one in his family is accepting this. DH has always been so close to his family and it doesn't seem to bother him. His "love" for his SS is so strong that he doesn't care. This is just NOT like him. EVERYONE who knows him says that he has changed and that the person they thought he was is not who he is now. I swear I think he has been brainwashed by her. She is a very seductive woman, she always has been. She has a way with men. I have told him that I hate who he has become, but if he ever changes back into the person that I married that I would welcome him back with open arms. He says he wants a divorce, but doesn't seem to be pushing it right now. I love my DH and I want so bad for him to turn around and get his life back on track. Oh, and to top it off, he is saying that he believes that this is God's will for them to be together. He says that he didn't chose this, it just happened and that this affair has NOTHING to do with why he wants to end the marriage (I know better). So, what can I do?? I have done it all.....I've been nice to him, I've cussed him out and used phrases that I never thought could come out of my mouth, I've even acted like I was over him, but nothing is working. I told him to quit going around her and talking to her but he says that he doesn't think he can do that. He is ruining his ENTIRE family. HELP!!!! How can I get him away from his horrible seductive step sister and wake him up before he ruins his life and his family?????

Oh, and I forgot to mention that DH moved out 2 weeks ago so he could have his "space".

I am so sorry you are going through this pain. You will get great advice here from the vets who will know exactly how to help you.

I just wanted to reach out to you with a big cyber-hug to let you know you are not alone in this pain...

You have both been through such a lot together in a relatively short space of time, and I was wondering how you both coped during the miscarriages and adoption process?

We went through something sort of similar in our marriage and my FWH thought he had to be the "strong one" for us. In fact, he simply couldnt handle the devastation of our losses and was crumbling inside, leading him to a near nervous breakdown and affair.

He would be the first to admit that he was not thinking straight, but was completely unable to reach out to me for help.

It is clear that your WH is also not thinking rationally. What he is doing is unimaginable to most people and will cause devastation not only for you and your children but to all his family. It is unbelievable. There isn't much worse he could do in terms of an A, and he must know that this relationship is going nowhere.

Could this be a desperate (albeit twisted, and extremely hurtful) cry for help?

Welcome. I'm sorry you are in so much pain. Most here know exactly how you feel. But hang tight because all is not lost and there is hope for your M.

First off know that EVERYTHING your WH is saying is right out of the wayward spouse handbook. They all say the same thing. The fact that he hasn't filed yet is a sign that he's not sure and you are still meeting ENs of his. He is cake eating. He only moved out so he could carry on his A without facing you every day.

Have you read this site extensively? Read up on Plan A and B.

It sounds like most people know about his A. Is that correct? His family, your family, friends, pastors? You mentioned that OWH knows about it also? That's good. you want to expose the A to people who have an influence on him and who can support your M. I think you have done that pretty well.

I think it's time to do a really good plan A for a short time frame and prepare yourself for plan B in the meantime.

Plan A= you meet his needs and expose where necessary. You improve you and work on areas in your M that you contributed to. You stop LBing and you become a beacon showing him the way home. But you do NOT become a doormat. You establish boundaries and you protect your kids from as much of the pain as possible. You don't lie to them, you tell them the truth in an age appropriate manner. Do this for a short time, say a month at the most. And in the meantime you prepare yourself for Plan B.

Plan B= you discontinue any direct contact with him. You have an intermediary be your go between. This allows your WH to see what life will be like without you. But what the main purpose of plan B is to protect whatever love you have left for your WH so when the A ends you still will want to restore the M. And most A's end within a 2 year period. Plan B will bring you peace because you don't have to be subjected to the pain and abuse that your WH is causing you. Most that have gone to plan B are scared at first to do it, but then most say they wished they had done it sooner.

That's a general overview.

This is a VERY difficult journey that you are heading down, but it's doable like most here. We'll try to walk you step by step through all of this and at times you will get some different opinions. Take what you can from them and stick to the plans by Dr Harley. They work. At the end of this journey here you will either be on your way to a recovered M or you will be on your way to a fulfilling life without your WH. Either way you will heal from this. I promise.

You're not alone. Take care of yourself and those kids. You have had a trauma in your life so go easy on yourself. This is going to take a lot of time. Read read read this site and get "Surviving An Affair". It can be purchased in stores or on this site. It'll help you understand the dynamics of an A. They are all the same.

(((((W2R))))))

Hug to you. Know that there are excellent resources on this forum and in MB.com in general! This is a great place...but alas, I'm sad that you are here, joining us in your troubled time.

Hang in there and read, read, read, and read some more. I cannot beging to tell you how much this site and the wise veterans have helped me in the past three weeks. Wish I had found this site YEARS ago!

From my experience the emotions and craziness you are seeing from your WH and even from yourself are common in a situation like this. He, WH, thinks he's found his "soulmate" and is willing to do whatever it takes to be with her. His brain fell out of his head. Others here compare an affair to a drug addiction.

As a betrayed spouse I can empathize with what you are feeling -- one minute angry, the next sad...then denial, back to angry, just wanting this to be over and done, wishing it would have never happened...(repeat cycle) you get the picture.

Hang in there. And keep adding to this thread and asking questions. You are going to get some great advice here...and some advice you may not feel fits your situation. Filter as needed.

We are WITH YOU! We feel for you, having walked in similar shoes. You have our support. You will get many cyber-hugs and maybe even a few cyber-kicks-in-the-pants (I know I have...sometimes that's a good thing).

Be strong. Forumulate a plan and move forward. There are great tools here to assist you in recovering your marriage (if that's the route you want to take...only you can decide).

And remember to take care of yourself -- eat, sleep, exercise, laugh (when you can...), keep yourself as healthy and sane as possible.

And remember, we are here for you!

This seems to be a fairly unique situation in that the OW is his step sister since he was 7 years old. Did they live together as step brother/sister? If so, he is not having a "normal", (if there is such a thing) affair. It's is a strange situation he has got himself into, and one that he needs to extricate himself from urgently.

Presumably, the OW is aunt to your children, and her children are cousins to yours, or was the amalgamated step family not close? This is an awful problem for all, and his family need to play a big part in getting them both to see sense and separate from each other.

Plan A is great, as is plan B if necessary, but there may be other things going on with WH if he is making such devastating and inexplicable decisions, and I just worry about his state of mind to go from being such an upstanding family man to having an A with his stepsister.

I don't see this A as any different than any other. However the CONSEQUENECS of his A will affect his ENTIRE family rather than just his wife and kids. To R this M he and W2R will have to have NC with this stepsister which will be very difficult and devastating to the whole family. There will never be the "family get togethers" as have been in the past. Family A's tear the family to pieces.

W2R, your WH has been emotionally involved with his SS(OW) most of his life and they do have a history and strong connection. However, they are living a fantasy right now and they will start to see it crumble as the pressure from his family increases. Once you start your plans he will see what he will be losing.

Thank you all so much for your replies. I am really getting so much support on here so far and already am feeling much better. It was suggested to me that I keep all of my posts on one thread, so I am copying an pasting the posts from the other threads I started on to here. Here is the one about confronting WH.....




Before I found this awesome website last night, I had already confronted WS about his affair and already told him that he had to end it. He admitted to the affair, but of course says that it is irrelavent to our situation with our marriage. He says that he doesn't know if he can cut off contact with her. Anyway, I am starting Plan A today and was wondering if I should tell him AGAIN to cut off contact? He knows how I feel about him continuing to see the other woman and WS and I have been getting along GREAT the past 2 days and have not talked about our relationship at all so I am not sure that bringing up the OW again is a good idea. We are seperated, but talk on the phone frequently and I see him a lot since we share 4 kids and he has the kids half the time. As far as exposure, well that has been done with everyone I can possibly think of on both his end and her end. He is VERY ANGRY about it and says that it pushes him further away.

Anyway, What should I do about confronting him again???

I am giving plan A 3 months as of today. Looking forward to finding myself over the next 3 months.

Thanks!

And here is my post about exposing WH....BTW, thanks for your patience, I am new to all of this




I have exposed WS in every way possible about his affair. His family and I are now working on exposing the OW (which is his step sister and which is why his family is involved) The only concern that I have is that when WS's Mom told OW that she has sent a letter in the mail to tell her employer (she is on a church staff) about her affair with her step brother, my WS called his mom and told her that what she did will not change things with him and OW and that it is only pushing him toward her more. ARGH!!! Is this a normal reaction??? Is he maybe just bluffing so we will leave her alone, or do you think it is possible that it is really bringing them closer???

I don't think you should set a timeline in stone for Plan A. I think it's good to have a goal of three months, and then at three months you can see how you feel and if you want to continue Plan A for a bit longer then you can. Conversely, you may find that the stress of the affair depletes your love for your WH to the point that if you continue Plan A until the 3 month point you will end up not caring for your WH any longer. So certainly have the goal of three months, as that is a long enough time to effect permanent changes in the way you approach your marriage yet short enough to not seem insurmountable. Just understand that you may need to adjust the three month marker one way or the other depending on how you're doing.

Exposure may bring them together temporarily, in an "us against the world" mentality, but it takes a lot of energy to continue to hold your head high while others are glancing at you disapprovingly and whispering behind your back. Exposure will cause the luster of the affair to fade, and introduce stress into their relationship.

You may also hear other comments from your WH such as
- I was going to leave her and work on the M, but you've destroyed any chance of that.
- How can I ever trust you again?

It's been a while since I've heard the "It's God's will" comment but that, too, is a very common one.

You say your children spend half their time with WH. Why is that? Do they sleep at your home all the time? I'd encourage you to keep them in the marital home, for stability and also to improve your chances at custody should it come to that. If WH wants to visit the children he can jolly well come home to do so. That's where he belongs, after all. Whatever you do, don't let him move the children out of the home and don't you move out, either.

Have you read the articles on this site? Do you understand the concept of the Love Bank, and Emotional Needs and Love Busters? If not, read up on all of those and also Plan A. Plus there are a ton of good articles on how affairs happen and how they should end. Just read them and re-read them until it all sinks in. If you're like me when the A was ongoing, it takes several readings.

I would totally avoid relationship talks right now. If he wants to bring up separation or divorce, tell him "Sorry, I only talk about marriage. Separation and divorce are not options I'm willing to entertain." Then change the subject.

If you bring up relationship talks, he'll feel trapped and cornered. Just leave the R talk alone completely for now. Also, don't try to tell him about the things you're learning on this site. Educating a wayward is futile, and it makes them feel controlled and manipulated. It makes them angry and pushes them away.

How old are your children? Have you exposed to them?
It would help folks keep up with your situation if, in addition to sticking to one thread (thanks for that, by the way), you put a short signature on your profile saying your ages, how long married, when D-day was, ages of your children, if WH is not living at home, and that you're in Plan A. To add the signature, click My Stuff -> My Profile.

Thank you turtlehead!!

Awesome sig, thank you.
You might like reading Trying2Live's thread. It's super long but if you read it in bits and pieces I think you'll find it inspirational.

This thread may help you to understand Plan A.

Rules of Plan A

This is an article by Dr Harley:

What is Plan A and Plan B?

I have some questions now that I am in Plan A that I would like as much advice as I can get on. I have read up about Plan A, but woudl like to know your opinions.....

PLAN A Questions.....

1. Do I have contact as usual with WH? As far as texting, calling, when I have a question about kids, etc?? Do I answer when he calls or texts?

2. Should I act happy everytime I am around him even though I am torn apart inside??

3. Kids stay with him half of the time in his apartment. We have to do this because of my work situation. The kids just adore him and I really think they need him in their lives. Is any of this a problem?

4. Do I need to keep quiet about our relationship when I talk to him? Isn't it true that I should not even bring it up to him?

5. What about OW? Should I completely quit talking about her to him? Not ask him where he is going? (I know he is with her this weekend and I want to say something so bad)

6. He wants me to STOP talking to his parents about stuff, he says I am just stirring up trouble. His parents are 100% on my side about this and wants this marriage restored. Especially because the A is with his step sister. Should I respect his wishes and quit talking to them whenever I find out new info?

7. Should I be okay with him continuing to go around OW? Of course I am not OKAY with it, but since he has refused to cut off contact, do I have to just accept it at this point?

8. Do I need to continue to tell him that I love him? I haven't told him in a few weeks, but he KNOWS I do. Do I tell him that I would take him back if he came back??

9. Is sex with him out of the question at this point. I don't know if the opportunity would come up, but if it did, should I refrain from that?

10. We are going out of town together this weekend with our children for our daughter's gymnastics meet. We have to ride together (5 hour trip) and all stay in the same hotel (hotels are too expensive to get 2) How should I act toward him on this trip?

11. We have been getting along great for the past couple of days, should I really work hard at keeping it this way? I guess my question is...... How do I need to act in general when I talk to him???


I also have a couple of questions about Plan B so I can prepare....

1. What is this Plan B letter all about? Is it the same as the NC letter? Is there an example of this letter on here?

2. It will be REALLY hard to cut off all contact with him since we share 4 children and they are all involved in sports, etc. What do I do about this?

3. If he calls me during Plan B, or texts me, do I respond??

Thank you all so much for all of your help. I just bought SAA today and can't wait to start reading it!!!

If it's me, I would stay in the hotel with him, but no sex. As long as he is with her, no sex.

Too risky, as you don't know who else she is sleeping with - and she may be more promiscuous than anyone really knows. No STD testing, no sex.

I also would limit any relationship talk. If possible, I absolutely would not ride up there with him. 5 hours in the car would be difficult, given that he is with her all the time. It might be too hard to avoid talking about the relationship. If you think you will just burst for not talking about it, and break the Plan A, then don't ride with him - make an excuse to use alternate transporation and meet him up there. Make the time together loving and happy, and make him miss time with you!!!!!!

I know myself too well, and I don't think I could make a 5 hour trip in a car without talking about the OW, my feelings the relationship, etc., that close to d-day. I think I could do dinner, maybe the evening, and perhaps drinks. I'm not sure I could do the overnight thing. Give consideration to what you think you can do VERY WELL, and do that - and make arrangements according to what you know you can carry out well.


SB

w2r,

One more thing - you need to password protect your computer.

He will try to get on and see what you have been up to. Make sure you do not leave a trail to this website.


Empty your history folder when you exit, and your temporary internet folder.


Just make sure he does not know you are using this website. Don't let him see the books. Not until you are ready for recovery - because he is not to know the plans.

SB

1. Do I have contact as usual with WH? As far as texting, calling, when I have a question about kids, etc?? Do I answer when he calls or texts?
Plan A is about meeting your WH's ENs and proving to him, through consistent actions over time, that you can be a wonderful wife. It is about attracting him back to the marriage (but NOT being a doormat!). What if your WH's top EN is conversation, and you ignore his texts and refuse his calls? He will tell himself that you don't understand him, that he doesn't know what he ever saw in you, and that OW understands him completely and is always there for him.

2. Should I act happy everytime I am around him even though I am torn apart inside??
Don't mope and cling, but feel free to tell him that this is hard and you can't do it forever. There's nothing wrong with being open and honest about your feelings.

3. Kids stay with him half of the time in his apartment. We have to do this because of my work situation. The kids just adore him and I really think they need him in their lives. Is any of this a problem?
It might present problems if you seek full time custody if you guys divorce.

4. Do I need to keep quiet about our relationship when I talk to him? Isn't it true that I should not even bring it up to him?
Don't talk about the relationship. Trust me, it's already on his mind and when you bring it up he feels cornered and trapped. He'll start avoiding you because he won't want to hear the nagging and guilt-tripping (as he sees it).

5. What about OW? Should I completely quit talking about her to him? Not ask him where he is going? (I know he is with her this weekend and I want to say something so bad)
Why do you want to say something? How is this avoiding LBs and meeting ENs? It's a disrespectful judgment if you ask me, and that's an LB and that will empty your account in his love bank faster than you can spit.

6. He wants me to STOP talking to his parents about stuff, he says I am just stirring up trouble. His parents are 100% on my side about this and wants this marriage restored. Especially because the A is with his step sister. Should I respect his wishes and quit talking to them whenever I find out new info?
Hogwash. Continue talking to his parents. Just because he doesn't like it does NOT mean it's a LB. Lots of folks think Plan A means tip-toeing around on eggshells and never making the waynerd angry. That's not true. Telling the truth is not a love buster. Your WH may not like it, but that's his problem.

7. Should I be okay with him continuing to go around OW? Of course I am not OKAY with it, but since he has refused to cut off contact, do I have to just accept it at this point?
Well, let's think about this. You cannot make another person do anything. You only control your own actions, not the actions of another. So you can NOT make him quit seeing her. You can either accept it and do Plan A or you can file for divorce. Your choice. But you can't make him quit seeing her.

8. Do I need to continue to tell him that I love him? I haven't told him in a few weeks, but he KNOWS I do. Do I tell him that I would take him back if he came back??
Why would you tell him that you love him? To make him feel better? No, because telling him you love him would make him feel guilty. In the hopes that he'll say he loves you back, in an attempt to manipulate him? He'll just feel cornered and pressured. Telling him you love him serves no purpose at this juncture.

Instead, you can meet his EN of admiration by telling him you love how his shirt brings out the color of his eyes, or what a great job he did fixing the messed up toilet and what a relief it is now that it never gives you any troubles.. Meet his ENs. Don't corner him with "I love yous".

Would you take him back if he came back? I wouldn't. I'd have a list of requirements as long as my arm - such as no contact with OW for life, attendance at a MB weekend, perhaps a polygraph, full access to internet accounts, a keylogger, a GPS.. I simply dont' see how you could get into all of this without it becoming a huge relationship talk that he totally is not interested in hearing so no, I wouldnt' tell him you'd take him back if he came back.

9. Is sex with him out of the question at this point. I don't know if the opportunity would come up, but if it did, should I refrain from that?
You will get folks who feel strongly about this who say yes and who say no. My own opinion is that because SF is usually a top EN of men, you'd be a fool not to have great sex with him whenever the opportunity presents itself. You want to be making those deposits, not OW. Be sure he wears a condom though.

10. We are going out of town together this weekend with our children for our daughter's gymnastics meet. We have to ride together (5 hour trip) and all stay in the same hotel (hotels are too expensive to get 2) How should I act toward him on this trip?
Study up on DJs, disrespectful judgments. Work hard at meeting his ENs. Be happy and upbeat. Be interesting and funny. Be a person he wants to spend time with. You can rest assured that OW is not going to be happy that he's on a long road trip with you and playing close family and she's not allowed along. She'll be love busting plenty, but WH will never let you know about it. Your job on the trip is to be a spectacular companion, fun, beautiful, flirty... and let OW whine and be clingy and needy and love bust him.

I think it's too early for you to be planning Plan B. Give Plan A your full focus for a couple of weeks at least.

Wow! Such great advice schoolbus and turtlehead!! THANK YOU!!! I wish I would've found this website MUCH sooner!!!

Two more questions.....

1. WH's brother and I have been talking with OW's H and her H has told me some things about OW that are horrible! I don't know how true these things are but, I really think that it could potentially harm whatever WH has with OW if he found out. OW's H said that it was OK for us to tell WH, but I don't know how we should approach it. WH's brother told their parents......which WH's stepdad is OW's Dad and he is very devastated by the news. His brother said that he wants to be the one to tell him and that he thinks it is best to leave me out of it (as if I never knew) so that it wouldn't look like I was trying to make things up or stir up trouble. The things we heard were really bad and I truly think that WH needs to know this, but I have a feeling that he will not believe any of it and it will probably just tick him off. But I think anything that could harm WH and OW's relationship is worth him getting mad.

What do you guys think???

2. WH's stepdad, WH's mom and I have a meeting Tuesday to meet with our pastor. WH REALLY looks up to this man as if he is God himself. WH knows that our pastor knows the situation because WH snooped onto my e-mail and found an e-mail that I wrote to our pastor. Now WH has been avoiding that church so he will not have confrontation with him. We have been going to a different church for the past few weeks (believe it or not, WH STILL goes to church with me, and sits next to me in the front row) I do not understand this one bit, but I am definately not complaining. Anyway, I wanted to know your advice about talking our pastor into some sort of an intervention. I know WH will probably not willingly go to the pastor to speak with him (his step dad asked him to and he said "I know I need to, but I can't"), but if we could bring the pastor to him I think it would really break WH. I don't know though. Please give me your advice about this as well. How well do "interventions" work in situations like this? I know it cannwork on drug addicts and alcoholics, and this is an addiction as well.

w2r,

Get the pastor to talk to him without you there. I think that would be my approach.

Regarding the information about OW - I would not be a party to passing along information on her to your H. In Plan A, it is usually ill-advised for the BS to attempt to do anything to disparage the OP.

The affair is NOT ABOUT THE OTHER WOMAN.

It is about your husband - remember that.

The affair also IS NOT ABOUT YOU.

It is about your husband - remember that.


Your husband has made a very bad decision, and has acted on it. It may very well have been a different OW. It has nothing to do with this woman, or any particular woman. Your WH is a mess, and he is in a strange mental state - remember that his affair is not a reflection on who you are. Try to hang onto that thought, because your tendency will be to try to believe that you are a bad wife, a bad person, or that you didn't do X, Y, or Z to "make him happy". Nothing could be further from the truth.

You need to understand that your marriage probably had some issues which needed to be addressed. The decision on his part was to NOT ADDRESS THE ISSUES - and instead he allowed himself to go outside of the marriage to seek to fulfill his needs or find advice, or do whatever it is, instead of relying on his wife to work with him as a team to repair the likely small problems in the relationship.

And what is likely? They were small problems which could have been handled if the two of you had only TALKED about them.

Instead, he CHOSE AN AFFAIR. Do not take the blame for his affair - do NOT.

Also, do not think that there is anything special about his affair, that their so-called "love" is anything special, that their story is anything special, that their relationship is anything special, or that this particular OW is anything special.

Nothing about this is much different from the usual scenario, with the exception that they are step-siblings. The rest plays according to script.

So you need to play accordingly, too.


Change your email password today!!!!!!!

And change the passwords to your online bills, too. Change anything so that this OW and your WH cannot get into your money, your life, your information. Protect yourself.

Get a PO Box, too, and get your mail changed over. Begin to prepare yourself so that if you need to go to Plan B, you are ready to rock and roll at a moment's notice. Talk to a very close and trusted friend, who absolutely will not waver from the plans, and will not talk to your husband about them.

But you must stay in Plan A as long as you can, in order to lay the groundwork. He must see a strong, vibrant, loving woman in you. He must want you, he must know that you are there for him, loving him, and that you want this marriage to be restored.

You stay in Plan A, because it lets him know that you do love him, and that you believe in him - that you believe that he can and will leave the OW and restore your marriage.

You only go to Plan B when you think you are losing your love for him. Plan B is not a punishment - it is a safe harbor for the BS.

Focus on carrot and stick.

SB