I am 61 and retired. I have been unfaithful once in 1984 for a brief encounter but carried on a six year "relationship" with a dirtbag that ended on discovery three months ago. I have been an addictive personality all my adult life and a narcissist with a huge ego, though at heart I am a good person. I have undergone a disintegration of my ego and months of deep depression, remorse, and sorrow, as well as anxiety depression. My wife and I are currently in counseling. Here is the thing: The injury is so extreme and the trust so destroyed, that it seems almost unimaginable that we could put our lives together and save our marriage, and yet I discovered that she still loves me on a certain level, and I feel deep love for her partly fueled by the horror at what I have done to her and to us, but also because she is just an absolutely exceptional and wonderful human being who I believed for years had actually despised me and wanted nothing to do with me. I was totally in error and saddled with resentments over what I thought was rejection in our 26 year marriage. As I learned what I had done early in our marriage to destroy it with thousands of Marriage Busters, I realize to my horror that I have been responsible 100% for all the ills and sadness that led me to seek approval and sex outside the marriage in a long term relationship with a person who, I now know was manipulating me only for the financial support and companionship. I had actually developed an addictive type of obsession and co-depended relationship with her and thought that I "loved" her, although I understand now that it was just her stroking my ego and giving me sex in exchange for support. I grew up in a home without love, with slamming of doors and constant arguing, and I had learned to survive emotionally by running away from commitment, controversy, argument, or unhappiness. I also tried to control my wife in a master-slave type of arrangement which had been encouraged by my deceased father, whose love I always tried to earn. He also hated my wife and poisoned our marriage and me against her from the beginning.

Anyway, all I want to do is become a good human being in the last 15 or so years of my life, to learn to love and have a real marriage with my wife who waited for me all these years. My relationship with the "other" woman is totally ended. It is dead to me, but of course, my wife cannot believe that, because I have been such a good liar for so long and destroyed all trust.

I am sorry for this long post. I am not looking for approval, only help to do what is right. I am not looking for angry diatribes against me, because I know I deserve it and agree with them. They would be an irrelevancy for me at this point. I am looking for help regarding the recommendations and posts on this forum claim that a situation like ours is hopeless, and that the odds of my cheating again are almost certain. I know in my heart that I could never cheat or philander again at any level the rest of my life. I would rather be dead. I just want to go to my creator some day knowing that I was able to learn how to be a good person and honor the woman I married and actually have a real marital relationship. Is it really true that I am almost certain to fail and to cheat or to eventually try to see this other woman again or communicate with her? I cannot imagine it, but everything on this forum says that I will. Isn't there any hope for success for me?

bump

Greenmile, the biggest question here right now is this...does your W want to stay married to you after this revelation? Maybe first question would be, have you been completely honest with her and told her everything about both affairs?

Recovery from LTA's is hard. Since you are the wayward here seeking help, I assume you want the M and have ended all contact with the OW. Is that true?

You say you are an addictive narcissist with anxiety and deep depression and a huge disintegrating ego with enormous FOO issues who "learned to survive emotionally by running away from commitment, controversy, argument, or unhappiness" and controlled your W with a "master-slave" arrangement.

And a six year affair.

What else? Rashes? Tourettes? You sound like the whole package...

Thanks for your question. The answer is an unequivocal yes on both accounts. I know this is unusual, but I have ended all communication with OW and want no further communication or contact with her. I also want to save M at all costs.

Yes. The first affair was a one night stand on a business trip to another city 24 years ago. She knows everything about it. Recovery from that was probably never complete, because of my constant withdrawal and continued emotional ineptitude and egocentric behavior since then. We stayed together because of our children, who are now grown and gone, but there has been mostly recovery from that. The problem, of course, is the LTA with the OW, and we are in the earliest stages (three months out) of dealing with this devastating betrayal. I have revealed everything about it to my wife which has been very hard. In fact the revelations were spread out over weeks, because I was unable or unwilling to be totally honest about it initially.

I do not know, nor does she at this point, if she is going to be emotionally able to stay in this marriage, although she still wants to try, and we are pulling out all the stops. We do still love each other at a root level, but all trust is gone, and she does not feel safe and probably never will completely.

Yes absolutely people can and do change. It is not easy and takes a ton of work, but the satisfaction you get from a spectacular marriage and the ability to look yourself in the mirror with pride and satisfaction is worth the effort.

I agree that if your wife is willing you should counsel with the Harleys, or attend one of their marriage building weekends.

You have a very big task ahead of you in earning back your wife's trust. It is not her job to learn to trust you again - it is your job to EARN her trust. In order to do this you can:

1. Answer all of her questions fully and truthfully, no matter how embarrassing or painful the answer.
2. Offer to take a polygraph.
3. Offer to put a key logger on the PC and have the reports sent to her.
4. Put a GPS on the car(s) so that she can verify your whereabouts.
5. Offer to change cellphones with her whenever she requests it, no questions asked.
6. Sign a postnuptual agreement that entitles her to all marital property if you are ever unfaithful again (including emotional affairs).
7. Anything else your wife says would help grant her peace of mind.

You absolutely can do this. It is not going to be a quick fix, though, it is going to be a long journey and you should be prepared to work hard for a few years (2-5) and then remain vigilant about your behavior for the rest of your life.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi011_dates.html

The above is a link for Marriage Builder's weekend, which in your case would be one of the best courses of action you could take, IMHO!

I do have depression and anxiety over this horrible circumstance that I created. My narcissistic personality tendency and ego are probably typical of a lot of physicians and are very similar to my deceased father, who was a surgeon.

The six year affair was another of my escapes from dealing with the real issues of my personality and the demands of trying to have a real, healthy marital relationship. But my W is everything to me, and shortly after this was revealed I underwent total breakdown. Since I no longer practice medicine and live a retired life, I have no reinforcement of my egoism, and the fellow who perpetrated this outrage has died as far as I can tell. Even my wife sees that I am really a different person. My only goal in life is to remain married to her, compensate her somehow, and learn to be the best possible husband until the day I die.

But she is on this forum and reading all kinds of replies from people who say pretty much that I am a lost cause. I feel determined to pay whatever price is necessary and do whatever work is needed for however long to save this marriage and try to redeem myself. I just need to have some hope that she can recover from this monstrous injury and grow some level of a sense of safety and trust about staying with me.

So far, no rashes or tourettes, but I am keeping an eye out.

I did get a GPS tracker for my car, though I have forgotten to check it for power on once and another time forgot to take it off of my car and carry it on one of my trail hikes with my dogs. Both times led to major emotional upheaval with her. I have offered to put a key logger on my computer, but she said that I would be easy for me to go to Kinko's and use another computer at times. She has full access to my sign on with my cellphone company and can watch all my calls, but she has said that it would be easy to obtain one of those disposable phones and use that if I wanted. I would be glad to take a polygraph at any time, as long as the emotional aspect does not cause me to fail it falsely. It would be difficult for us to exchange cellphones, because we are both involved with important organizations that need to contact us, though we could try it at times.

I cannot tell you how much it means to me to receive your positive and encouraging reply. I am willing to do whatever helps grant her peace of mind. The postnuptual agreement is an interesting idea and a big help. We can certainly look into that. I would definitely attend one of the marriage building weekends, and I think she would also. We have already discussed that. I think it could be years, also, but I am willing to put in the work and remain vigilant.

Your answer is VERY helpful. Thank you.

I also want to clarify on this thread that it was not really replies on this forum that have been discouraging to my wife but other things that have been written elsewhere. I don't want anyone who recognizes this and has replied to her to get the wrong idea. Everyone has been most helpful.

lol....well parried.

Well, you come off as a curiously remorseful wayward who is undergoing a lot of self examination. Of course, now that you say your wife is reading here, maybe you are just gaming her again.

You say you are in counseling but you are here, too. Different counselors have different programs, you shouldn't mix and match.

You seem to have the means so I would tell you to get into Harley counseling either with phone counseling or a weekend, as suggested.

But it seems like you definitely need some individual counseling as well.

But you are a medical doctor, you don't need our advice.

Regards to your wife.

hmmm...

GreenMile, are you a man of faith?

Counseling with the Harley's and going to a MB weekend, willingly doing ALL the homework and YOU leading the recovery of the marriage is the only way this is going to work. You have devastated your wife with a LTA. She is going to be questioning everything that happened in your M during those years. She is going to be questioning her ability to satisfy you, her instincts, whether her looks are pleasing to you and wondering why she didn't know about the affair. You are going to need to be a very humble man.

Greenmile, welcome to Marriage Builders! You seem to be on the right track. You have taken the most important first steps, ending contact with OW, telling your W everything and accounting for your time. The next step in recovery is falling in love with each other again. That is one of the best protections against affairs and that is what Marriage Builders can do for you if you follow this program.

You can do this several ways, but I will start with the fastest horse and work down:

1. Marriage Builders weekend [assesses your marriage and walks you through the program with professional guidance no matter how long it takes - daily access to Dr Harley]

2. counseling with Steve Harley or Dr. Jennifer Chalmers - they assess your marriage, give you a PLAN, and counsel you over the phone]

3. Home study course

4. Buy the main books, download the questionaires from this website and use the forum and website materials

#1 is the fastest and most effective horse in my experience.

Can you send your wife here so we can help her?

He said his W is already posting here and is reading his groveling thread, ML, that is what made me question his sincerity.

But I'm just a jaded betrayed, perhaps.

For a self proclaimed N, you seem to have a lot of insight and are taking quite a bit of ownership. I'm no expert on personality disorders, but , it seems to me that if you really are an Narcissist, you are on the low end of the continuum .
We all have N traits, and, with the type of self awareness you are displaying, I would think there is reason to hope.
Have you looked into therapy? These days, they are saying DBT is very effective for personality disorders.
I beleive you can change and yoy seem to be motivated. You can do it. It is never too late.

ooooooooooooooooooh. Who is she?

Another thing GreenMile, do not "forget" to turn on the GPS. Every little step you take to be completely transparent and show great care of your W's feelings will be steps toward EARNING her trust and love back.

Yep, that is exactly what it was and you need to keep remembering this. Admiration is probably an EN of yours, it is for many men.

This might be true but it won't be helpful to your W or to recovery if you BLAME your A on this. You had an A because you WANTED TO.

This is very sick and even creepy. Your poor W probably has a ton of hurt and resentment from this. This is a HUGE lovebsuter and you had BETTER eliminate this IMMEDIATELY.

And she SHOULDN'T believe you right now. You are not trustworthy. You have spent 6 years living your life creating ways to deceive your W. That was a LOT of work. Was it worth it???

This is a VERY GOOD THING for you to want. Eternity is a long time to NOT live with our Creator...and adultery will certainly leave you in eternity withOUT Him. Good for you for allowing the fear of God to change your heart.

Of course there is, there is hope for EVERYone. Many suggestions have been made, and as the BS, I will give mine and second other's:

~DO NOT EVER "forget" your GPS, cell phone, etc. Why wasn't your W with you on your hike with the dogs?

~you are retired, so you and W can spend tons and tons of time together (I assume she is as well, or doesn't work?). You really shouldn't be spending ANY time alone...this will help her with her trust issues and will give you a lot of UA...time together to meet each other's ENs.

~go on the next MB weekend. Make a "vacation" out of it if you can.

~If you can't, take a trip SOMEWHERE together. Where is somewhere your W has always wanted to go? Go and spend a week or more of 24/7 time together. Dr. Harley recommends this and I can see why.

~Have her fill out the EN questionaire AND the LB Questionaire. Forget about having many of your needs met right now, she is probably in withdrawal and afraid of you (yes, I said afraid...that is what happens when someone close to you whom you love hurts you over and over again, and to this degree...we become AFRAID to allow ourselves to be vulnerable to you).

Hope this is helpful. Glad you are here. Remember how crucial it is that you demonstrate to her that you are willing to do "whatever it takes, for however long it takes". That attitude is HUGE.

This is freaking hilarious...I'm sorry GM, but it is!

Here is the NEXT MB weekend, you are just in time!


The Marriage Builders® Weekend
Minneapolis, Minnesota
January 23rd & 24th, 2009
at the Embassy Suites Minneapolis - Airport.
Free shuttle service to the Minneapolis - St. Paul International Airport and the Mall of America (520 stores and several indoor rollercoasters!) http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi011_0901.html