I mean no offense, but I struggle to believe that you really believe what you say about FWS's.

It sounds like you are stuck in a real cruddy situation brought on by a very cruel WW, which has left you with nothing else to do but devise a very sinister plan for dealing with it. Deep down you feel bad about that, so you are creating an image of WW's/FWS's sufficently evil enough to justify a sinister plan. This plan requires you to maintain a level of civility towards your WW, so you can not express to her the utter contempt you now feel for her. So as an outlet for bottling up that contempt, you come here and post it towards anyone that resembles your WW. Which is anyone with a "W" in their description, since that is the defining characteristic of the image of your WW you have created.

You then neatly package it up as advice to BH's, throw the "grenade" on to a thread and watch the fireworks .

But I could be wrong.

I apologize if that sounds (or is) harsh. I don't wish you any ill will and have no desire to see you censored. That's just what it looks like from my POV.

I do hope things go well for you.

100% agree.

I'd bail sooner rather than later, Aphe. Life's too short to deal with this toxin very long. Sounds like you have options. Why not bail and be happy?
I'm out and it is great. I've met some really nice folks, including women. There's a market for decent looking, successful guys with decent intellectual candlepower. Write off your marriage as a lesson in how messed up some folks can get. Now, you know about the "fairer sex".

Melody,

Maybe we could make that more clear, that Plan A is about buying time for you to decide what is best. Not necessarily that you have already decided to save the marriage and are doing a Plan A to save the M.

Do you see the difference? I jumped to a plan that would hold my M together and it worked for 10 years. The problem is that holding the M together was the wrong decision.

I may have mentioned this on another thread. I read an article by a woman who had written extensively on infidelity in women. I actually read two of theis person's. Michelle Langely's, e-books, as well as this article.
She said she did a follow up study with men who had decided to remain in their marriages after their wives' infidleity to see how they felt about that decison about two years later.
According to this author, to a man, every guy she talked to regretted the decison not to have divorced fairly early post d-day.
She hypothesized, based on her conversations with these guys, that there is an overwhelmin initial desire to reconcile which is a knee jerk reaction to two feelings evoked in men upon learning of their wives cheating.
The first is a panic reaction, probably the same thing BW's feel. There is the fear of the unknown, of being alone, of losing kids and security etc.
The second feeling she thought was fairly specific to men, the urge to compete, to be the victor over the other guy, to prove superiority.
Once these feelings subsided, these men regretted having responded to them and committing to reconcile. Seems they never regained trust or love for their wives and the relationship was not satisfactory.
So, that said, I agree it is really wise to go slow and really examine whether remaining in a the relationship is what is best. Many times, the infidelity is the tip of the iceberg in terms of what a BS has been putting up with for yearts.
If used properly, the infidelity can be a get out of jail free card. Folks understand that cheating is ample justification for dumping a spouse, whereas allegations of abusiveness that do not include infidelity are often questioned.

6yearsleft, the goal of Plan A is to end the affair, but it does have the effect of buying time. Pretty much, I like to tell people not to make any rash decisions while under duress. [usually a very bad time to make decisions!] But I leave the decision of whether or not to save their marriage up to them unless it is just so horrible that its obvious there is no hope.

Melody,

I think, since Plan A rarely does end the A, that it may be better to think about it as buying time to think and calm yourself. That lets you get a real perspective on your own thoughts and does not rely on the other person. It also does not presuppose that saving the marriage is the goal.

Maybe the best advice we could give people is to do a good plan A, in order to buy time to decide what they want. It seems that regardless of the decision that doing a plan A is a reasonable approach. Even for the vengeful person, doing a good plan A and then ripping the rug out with a Plan D would probably be satisfying.

It definitely seems empowering to immediately take the decision as you own and to have all the actions you need to make within your grasp.

I am not bitter at my xW, I never see her and don't really care about her at all either way. I do regret that the way I handled her A and the years after it, cause my oldest son alot of pain. To this day I will actually cry if I think about what I put him through by trying to just hold things together.

6years, I have no problem telling people that Plan A will buy them time while they calm down. But the point of Plan A is to negotiate the end of the affair. Most affairs take both Plan A and Plan B, though, since only 15% of affairs end in Plan A. That is what I usually tell people.

Melody,

Why is the point of plan A to end the affair? I mean since that rarely works, what is the point of that? It does seem like Plan A almost always buys the BS time to decide what to do.

If you assume that Plan A is to end the affair then it seems like you are also assuming that Plan A is about recovering the marriage. That can get people going down the wrong path, sometimes.

6years, I am not assuming, I am just stating a FACT. The purpose of Plan A is to end the affair. Its purpose is not to buy time.

What Are Plan A and Plan B?

Have you read any of the Marriage Builders material?

Melody,

I have read the materials, and I'm not disagreeing with the quotes from the MB bible, what I am saying is that approach immediately assumes that the BS is trying to save the marriage. Practically everyone on this board recognizes that the BS could not possibly know that they want to save the marriage at that point in the affair. After all the stuff is Marriage Builders material, that seems pretty presumptive about the decision to stay.

Maybe it is heretical, I am often a heretic, but I am saying that I think the MB approach puts the BS on a path that may not be the right path for them. I made that mistake myself and it was a bad mistake.

So I am saying that a better idea is to use the tactics of Plan A to a different end. Almost every single BS would be well advised to treat the WS as Plan A proscribes while the BS decides what he wants. I don't see any problems with using those tactics in fact all the results are positive.

1) It provides time for the BS to think
2) It may put an end to the affair
3) It provides time for the BS to get the best they can in a D, if they want that.
4) It lays the ground for a plan B.
5) It provides an opportunity for revenge, again not me but some do want that.

I am suggesting that there should be a place for the BS, or WS, to come and discuss if they want to save their marriage. It is a hard decision and most could use some help. There are many many people on this site who are diligently following Marriage Builders who will probably regret the early presumptive decision to save the marriage.

6years, you are free to help newcomers in any way you choose. Plan A and Plan B are for those who have decided to save their marriages. I don't question that decision unless it is obvious the marriage is doomed.

Personally, I don't feel qualified to help anyone reach such a decision and will just continue telling them what I have learned about Marriage Builders. You can do whatever you wish, though.

Melody,

You are a tricky one, I thought you were arguing with my other point. I guess I think my experience offers better insight for those deciding what to do, rather than for building a marriage. My marriage was pretty screwed up. I do feel qualified to help but not to make the decision. After all we only get a small glimpse of the real story in these forums.

Now if someone wants advice on raising children I do feel pretty qualified on that front.

MB doesn't put them on the wrong path...if it's the wrong path they showed up here on their own accord searching for solutions and put themselves on the wrong path. However, even if it is the wrong path...the PROCESS of going through Plan A/B will eventually lead them to the correct path you presuppose. There is no real way a BS, let alone any of us here working with limited information, can glean which wayward is going to make and/or which marriage is going to make it. Some of the worst waywards come back and some of the strongest pre-affair marriages simply fail. It may have been the wrong path even trying...but there is worth in the effort.

IMO, this is NOT a save every marriage at all costs site. Many "successes" here are now divorced. MB just guided them with some semblemce of sanity and gave them the gift that they did all they could to TRY to save their spouse an eternity of unpleasantness (to say the least).

Mr. Wondering

Exactamundo, MrW!

Mr. W,

I'm not trying to be critical of the MB. I'm just saying it does not offer a way to evaluate if you should save the marriage.

6 years - Why don't you start your own thread about how to decide if the marriage is worth saving?

Shouldnt recovery and time be when you decide? You have no idea what can be unless you try and then if it sucks part ways.

I agree with believer about starting up a new thread with this subject. It should be interesting to see how you determine whose marriage is or isn't salvagable. I sure wouldn't know where to begin. Think I'll pull up a chair and just watch.

Me too, Mel, and maybe I'll have some popcorn.