Stella, T2L's marriage is NOT dead. It is not time to grieve and move on. She's in the midst of the biggest fight of her life, and your advising her to surrender.

The time may come for that. But it is not right now.

She is fighting this affair just as Dr. H says to by executing an excellent Plan A followed by a very dark Plan B.

Are you here to help support her following Dr. H's methods to fight this affair and restore her family if at all possible? THIS IS T2L's stated goal.

I always like differing opinions. Then the poster can see the whole spectrum. But the truth is that most marriages recover from infidelity. That is just the way it goes.

My WH lived with the OW for over 3 years, we divorced, and less than 2 weeks after the divorce, they broke up. He has spent the last year trying to reconcile.

I, too, enjoy hearing differing opinions, however, there are certain ways to say/write things in a forum, just like in RL. I think that people forget that sometimes since a person isn't right in front of them. There are good, proactive ways to get your point across and then there are ways that are designed to be REACTIVE and are just plain demanding, demeaning, and cruel. I see it time and time again, here.

We need to help others here who are in pain. Help them help themselves and not dwell on too many things. Delicacy and diplomacy is a good thing.



Man, you can tell I'm a southern belle

Not every SUCCESS story has the same KIND of "happy" ending.

Exactly!!!!!!!!
I think our poster Bugsmom... and several others of course, are shining examples of this. They has reached exemplary levels of personal recovery. Alot of people here have traveled the rocky road we were all detoured on with determination and have learned self confidence. I think TTL is well on her way down the same path.

TTL, I wish I could post my whole story, but after too many years and several forum changes the posts were lost. But, I think you are doing wonderfully. Be safe and go with God.

Johnstwin and all...I see your points. I suppose I really dislike these people who have affairs. It is my personal opinion that I almost hate them for what they have done to others they claim to have loved....

JT, I have been thru cancer also and posted many times on the BCO boards. Others experiances did help me. I understand now....

I wish my investment advisor had told me of the "downside" before I lost 40% in the stock market also.

But yes she is trying all she can to recover the marriage. That is all she can do even though I would have given up long ago I am not her.

You guys are right. I do not have the experiance to tell everyone how much I dislike the waywards and not to take them back. Just because I consider a wayward personh a creep does not mean the BS should discard them.

Also, I am all for people becoming thier strongest and best selves. No matter what.

Well said, Stella. I think we all thought that about waywards until it happened to us. I know I did.

You got it, dar!

Exactly!

T2L is still a chrysalis. He wings are comin.

Atta girl Stella!

I can see where you are coming from as far as disliking the BS, shoot I do too! I don't even know if I can explain what its like to be a BS.

Ya know the bible says that when you marry you become one. Imagine being cut in half fully alive, with no pain killer, but guess what you don't get to die you continue to live. You continue to drip blood and your fully exposed too. Your like the living dead and now you have to learn to function and carry on and provide care for your children with half of yourself. Well you can imagine you would feel like a freak with half a body, probably not feel normal or even accepted. You cant do things the same anymore, you cant see the same anymore, nothing can be the same, your cut in half. You have now learn to live a new, but with only half of you. You feel the phantom limb thing because you are not divorced yet and your not married either, your betrayed, but you still feel your phantom marriage. Its hell really because on earth no one can be closer to you than the other half of your body but its the very thing that cut you.

Thank you tho for being understanding and open to hear the views, I really admire that you have the ability to take that into consideration.

Hi T2L-

I've been gone since I posted earlier. The sun actually came out (which has been rare here lately in the Pacific Northwest) so I went hiking. It almost got up to 50!

I just wanted to tell you that you've been on my heart today. I know how hard it is to be on this journey, and how dark it can seem. But I also know that God doesn't waste our pain. He's in it with us. He will use it for good when we let Him. He started working to make it good even before this all happened.
Let me try to explain what I mean with a little bit of my story.

My XH left me 3 months after his EA was exposed and he lost his ministry position (2nd career). That EA eventually became a PA, but that's a different story. Five weeks after he left, I found a lump and was diagnosed with breast cancer. The night before I met with my surgeon, I stood outside looking at the stars and asked God why. It was so much, so fast. Now, here's just the first time He showed He had been involved in preparing me for this, even before all this happened.

I taught AP English for 8 years and always started the year with the book of Job because it is an ancient story that many biblical allusions in English Literature come from, and it also deals with an issue common to all humans-the problem of human suffering. I always loved teaching the Bible as Literature knowing that even though I had to follow certain guidelines, God promises that His Word will never come back void.

That night, looking up at Orion, the words God spoke to Job in the whirlwind came to my mind:

"Can you bind the beautiful Pleiades?
Can you loose the cords of Orion?" (Job 38:31)

The words went straight to my heart because in that moment I realized one of the things God was showing me through the words He spoke to Job was that He was in control at a level way greater than I could ever understand. I realized that God could see all of eternity in a glance and He was holding this moment in my life in His hands too. I was able to trust that God was in control.

I just wanted to share this with you and let you know that I am praying for you. We really don't know what our future holds, but because we know the one who holds our future also holds all of eternity-yet cares about us in this moment of time-we can trust that He is doing something, even when we don't see it or feel it.

Just a quick PS for Stella-how long have you been a survivor of cancer? I'll be 2 years from chemo ending at the end of March.

T2L, not to get off these other subjects but let me say first from central time.


Haaappppppppppyyyyyyyyyy bbbbbbiiiiiiiirrrrrrrrrttttttthhhhhhdaaaayyyy to you,

happy birthday to you, happy birthday dear T2L.........happy birthday to you my friend.

Will catch up with you tomorrow. take care

Okay I am going to get an a$s whoopin. Get your 2x4's now. Here goes. Keep in mind my Birthday is tomorrow.

So I finally went back to church today, i cried my [censored] off just about the whole time. It was good but I was emotionally empty when i got home but felt like some weight had lifted.

so I go home and DD17 says when I get home from the shopping trip with Dad I need to talk to you. I say ok. She comes home with burgers and fries that her and dad had brought for DS10 and I. She drops them off and then says I'm going to take dad back to his car. I told her that she must meet him somewhere that i do not want to see his car when I pull up from church.

So she drops him off and says, well I want to tell you what happend. I say ok. She says well after shopping dad takes me to lunch and we start to talk and he starts to cry in the resturant and he says that he is very embarrassed by what he has done, it was completely stupid to which she said well do you miss mom? He says yes. She said you know you could come home and be happy dont you and he says yes but if I break the lease at the apt they will charge me 2500 dollars and dd17 says well the family is more important than the 2500 and he agrees. He says that I have some struggles and I dont think I can come back becasue it will be too painful for your mom. He says I never went dancing I lied to make your mom jealous. He says that he wants to talk to me and at least tell me happy birthday. So he called and yes I answered.

Well the conversation went about 30 mins. He stated that it would be easier to communicate especially dealing with the kids and I ask is that the reason for the call then its for the kids? He says well no absolutely not. The he goes into defending the 2 family memebers who support him and how he cant understand why I turned his other family members against him to which i respond I have not, i have only said I love you and that i want my marriage. He then says well why can't we at least just email its only words on a screen and i reply well for me those words have come from the hands of my H so its painful. H says nothing to me about what he said to dd17. I say well I am not interested in a friendship and I have chosen not to speak to you because of the absolute pain it causes me to hear from you. I said when we talked for those 2 months (Plan A) i tried very hard to remain close to you in hopes you would return to the marriage but I could no longer take the pain of you leaving my home each night and crawling into bed with her.

He says well the visitation is not always easy for me to meet and i can't wait for an email to try and change. I say well I am sure I can get a phone number for you to which the IM's can get to me faster if you want to call instead, to which he denied. I say well I will continue to give you important information to you concerning the kids I have no desire for a friendship i want the marriage and I am willing to work at it and I still have love for you. He says well how can you I mean are you sure you are not protecting your image do you really love me? I say is that a joke? I say when I married you i made a committment to you for better or worse in sickness and in health til death do us part. I am keeping my committment. He says well I had kept my committment up until now, but I am sure it doesnt count.

I say i have not prevented any access to your children your son is mad at you right now and I really could not real all that email to him as it was not appropriate for his age. He says well thats why i said i would not discuss this with him and its really gone too far and he shouldn't even know her name he should just know something like girlfriend.

Finally I say well I am going to continue to use the IM's as I have no interest in a friendship, I want my marriage and am willing to work hard on it but I cannot make anyone love me or want to be with me. I stated that I am trying to hold on to my love for you and each time you do things it knocks down the love I have and one day I may not have any left. I say I am a wonderful person, a person of character and beautiful person and I don't deserve to have to talk to you under these circumstances and I know I am worth it.

He says well for what its worth Happy Birthday and I replied well its not worth much it would be worth more if my H was home and I said goodbye.

Well folks, I am sorry I feel that I have let myself down and you all too. I am agry at myself for taking that call after 9 weeks of absolute darkness. I have learned a huge lesson and realize now that I will never ever do that again. He will now have to meet ALL 6 conditions for me to accept him back.

THe only thing I can think of that was ok was that i restated the PBL that I want the marriage, I am willing to work hard, I love you but I need to protect my love as its getting harder to hold on to it, this is not controll and I would like you to understand the pain it causes me to be in contact with you even including emails and that I will continue using the IM's and that the visitation schedule still stands and that I will email you actual dates that i have in front of me so he can see exact dates and said goodbye. I think by hearing from me exactly what the PBL said was good, he heard it straight from me and i pretty much repeated my PBL.

I do not feel sad and I did not allow myself to have expectations and now i feel even more empowered to never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever come out of PB again unless he pretty much crawls and meets all 6 conditions immediately.

I actually think that he thought since I didnt do PA until 5 months after dday because i had not found SAA, that i was going into another PA and as soon as I said I am not interested in a friendship the tone changed. I am freakin pissed that I may have met a need and have prolonged things but this taught me a big lesson. Unless the communication starts with I will do what ever it takes DO NOT take the call. Oddly I don't feel super drained in the LB I feel more angry and determined, I am hoping 3 days from now it doesnt hit me.

So I apologize to my IM's for taking the call as I do not want to waste your time or efforts. I restated to him that i will still be using you.

So go ahead let em rip, I am already ripping myself. I feel sicker that I took that call, more than all the crying this month. I wanna barf but not from LB drainage. I feel like I wanna barf like I just cheapened myself and sold out God what a horrible feeling. I only need to feel that once. I don't think I could be a repeat breaker of PB, it feel so cheap and gross. I am worth more than that and I know it. Okay I need to stop my stomache is really turning.

Let em rip and feedback if ya want. Again really sorry y'all. I hate myself right now.

Oh honey, dont hate yourself, we all make mistakes.

Yes it was a fracture in your AWESOME plan B, but I have seen worse, it'll be ok.

:twobyfour:

We all make mistakes, there is no need to beat yourself up over it. You've done great so far and this was just a minor setback. There's no need to apologize to anyone. Just get back up, dust yourself off, and go back to being dark. You can do it!!!

What's done is done. Sure you met some needs but you also stood your ground. You stood up for yourself, you told him you are WORTH IT (and you are!!!!), you let him know there is a path home, and you reinforced the idea that you are in Plan B not to spite him, not to play him, but to protect yourself.

He has it all in writing, of course, but since he spoke to you it's good that all he heard was reinforcement of Plan B.

Remember when you were worried that he'd wrap himself up and leave himself on the porch at Christmas? This is similar. He used your birthday as an excuse to contact you directly. He played the sentiment card.

Don't beat yourself up, there's absolutely no point. Just remember that the next time he wants to speak to you, instead of calling you directly there should be a message coming to you from the IMs saying "I'm willing to do whatever you want".

Consider it a lesson learned - this really is NOT the end of the world. Hugs to you, and please don't feel badly about this lapse. Just take it, learn from it, and move forward.

Well, from what you wrote, I was kinda thinking he was calling to see about making things work, so if I were you I would have taken the call, too, in case it really was him saying he wanted to come home. So don't beat yourself up.

If anything, what you did reinforced to him that you're no longer the person he felt he could manipulate. Probably has him pretty scared.

Oops! Forgot!

Happy Birthday!
May it be the start of your best year of life ever!

First, HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!

No 2x4s from me... (the one who did everything wrong).

I don't know what to think of his conversation with DD. Was he being honest with her? If his conversation with you resembled anything like his conversation with her, I would say yes. But since it didn't, I almost think his conversation with DD was a way to get you to speak to him. He KNEW DD would encourage you to talk to him if he cried and said the right things.

My FWH also cried to his children and admitted he was wrong, but when we would talk, all I would hear was what was wrong with "us"... not that he wanted to come back. Strangely though, it was my oldest DS who he reached out to when the dam finally broke. My oldest DS called him one night and asked him to go to a movie instead of going out drinking that night. My DH says that was the catalyst of his turn around.

I'm hoping that your WH's talk with his DD stirred something in him that he's just not willing to admit yet.


His conversation with you shows that he's not ready yet to admit anything. My WH also doubted that I REALLY loved him and that I was just into the appearance of marriage. He probably feels shame and wonders how on earth you could still want him after all he's done.

It's sad that he got yours and his DD's hopes up...

If this comes up again, the thing to do is to get word to the IMs that he is wanting to talk and let them screen his motives before he gets another opportunity to talk to you.

I wish there was a way to do the same for DD... but I fear after this, she won't believe him anymore.

I still just wanna smack him!

I think your wh needs to know that there are marriages that survive this (and much, much worse).

Dunno how to get it across to him.

And don't beat yourself up a moment more.

We all have weak moments.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

ITA! He also needs to know that he has not passed the point of no return with God.

One of the things I prayed while my DH was gone is that God would put people in his path that would reinforce the fact that he was still loved... by God... and his family.

Well because of our church back ground he understands that its by what Jesus did on the cross and NOT what he does that makes him saved, that's the hard part. So it's kinda an abuse of grace and forgiveness if that can be so. But I forgot to mention that he said I just don't want the church "organization" anymore during our conversation. So what then?

Ya know I don't know what to think either, I mean why would you say all that to your daughter and then make no mentions of it either?

I kept my voice very low and calm, i tried not to show any glee in his call. I hope I didn't commit any LB's. I might have, I asked him so are you with her or what? I say you keep mentioning this how do you know I'm with her to the 3 of us. HE says well why would you want to know that, I say well why wouldn't I and he says what good would it do for you to know and I say well I was hoping you would be honest for once, and he says it won't do you any good to know that. I almost felt like there might have been a possibility its not strong but he didn't want to admit it to me.

Not sure if I mentioned it in DD convo but he said, I go to the movies alone, i go to the beach alone, i go to San dingo peir and I am always alone. Then in my convo with him he says well I like being alone and not answering to anyone and its probably not right, and i say its not, but I just don't want to be bothered by anyone a lot of times. Man, he is so weird sometimes.

But yes he thought I loved him to keep up appearances and so I could look good. I just said what? Are you joking? And then asked him, what did i say you the day you left my home, he says I know, but how could you love me after all i've done i don't understand it, and I replied well you have never understood real love because you love always had conditions. Is that and LB? I said if the kids and didn't respond well then gave us silent treatment and made us feel bad or if it was me you had angry outburst and he agreed.

Oh yead he told DD17 in their convo also that he thinks that friends are the ones who are telling me to do all this and that he thought it was all preplanned. I made sure to mention in our convo that I tried very hard to be close to you, it wasnt easy with you going home to her every night and that it was so painful but I told 3 times i would let you know when I couldn't do it anymore.