I KNOW of a couple who did this. They were having problems in their marriage so H went to W's job, picked her up and drove her to the airport for a two-week vacation in Hawaii. No bags, no clothes, nothing. He told her they'd buy all new stuff there. He had prearranged with the inlaws to take the kids while they were gone. I was sooooo jealous!!

T2L, I didn't do ANY plan when I was going through this because I'd never heard of MB. I tried the not taking his calls, ignoring him, begging him, threatening him, crying, screaming, yelling, cajoling, and just being plain mean. None of that stuff worked for me until I finally just let go, gave it 100% to God and let Him deal with it. I still talked to my H but not like I was before.

I was FORTUNATE it worked out for me. But I've ALWAYS said, if I'd a had MB, it would have saved me so much grief and PAIN and I would have been fine either way.

Right. But you, T2L, have not really been removed from the drama...it's been pretty much on a continuing basis since you started Plan B. With only a day or two here and there that have been quiet.

Charlotte

I would have to say that SMB is correct here, because my saying that a completely dark PB wouldn't have worked on Ike, was based on knowing my H, not WH. I did do a PB, T2L, just not a good one. And, maybe if I had done a better one, Ike would have come home sooner, who knows. What I do know, is that there are those who have done great PB's (Lil) and have started R. So, don't lose hope. *BTW, SMB, no offense taken at all. I understand what you are saying*

See, I hesitate to post my story and the facts about my crappy PB, because it makes other BS's think that it works. Harley has plans for a reason and PB is for the BS, not the WS. What happened to someone else won't happen to you because everyone is different, even though WS's follow a script with their words. Listen to what the vets have to tell you because they know WAY more than I do.

Oh Dear Lord.

Ok here we go. So he comes and takes the kids to starbucks and then DS10 to Video game store. So i left before he got there and went and did errands. While I am in Walmart DD17 says dad invited us to dinner but I told him we were going to dinner with you and he said well all lets go. DD17 says well I dont think thats a good idea and he responds well you can always ask. So she asks and I am having a fit in Walmart. I told daughter I have to call you back.

So Instead of having the kids be in the middle I sent him a text that said Thank you for the offer, I would love to come have dinner with my real husband when your ready to reconcile Id be willing to talk to you abt it. He says okay see ya.

So I finish my shopping and go home, well guess what they had just pulled up 5 minutes before me. So i open the garage and slip in with out him seeing me and the kids bring in the groceries. WEll while I am in the house as they unload, DS10 says dad lets play a game of pool!!!! I told DD17 he absolutely cannot come in to my home well I forgot to tell DS10. So they turn on the lights and TV and play pool in the garage!!!
I am irate at this point and consulted with Neak and she recommended I leave, so I leave for 2 hours and come back and HE STILL here! So I can't throw him out or it would be huge LB. So I quickly run to my room and hang out in there. Mind you its 9PM at this point. So 11:30PM rolls around and my son says dad wants to stay the night. I say well he should not be asking you he should ask himself, I didn't think it would be fair to tell DS10 no and have him tell his dad.

So YUP he comes in and asks. And I repeat PBL. I say look Mr. T2L. It kills me to see you. I cannot see you or have texts from you. I said I am not trying to control you just trying to save my self from pain. I say I have no one to protect me anymore and I have to protect myself, I cannot run my self into the crazy house. I say I would love nothing more than to have you spend the night but I can't make you love me and I can't make you want to be married to me. Having you here is too painful and spending the night is nothing more than the carrot in front of the donkey. I cannot do it I am worth more than that. I said next time please do not visit here. I will have the kids ready for you I just cannot have you here. I say you have told me the revised pay periods so I have no need to hear from you anymore. I say I cannot have you spend the night not just to protect me but to protect your son. If I allow you to come around again until i cant take the pain then it will be the 4th time you have left. You left when you told us and then came home 1st time. Left 2 weeks later when you went back to her 2nd time and then my son had to lose you again when I decided i can no longer talk with you(PB)3rd time and now you want me to have you over again and then let my son experience a 4th? I say I cannot do that I have to protect him as well. He nods.

Then when he goes out to the driveway I called his cell(I know get your 2x4) :twobyfour: and I say look you are welcome to spend the night but you need to be able to tell me that she is out of the picture and forever. He says well it was dumb i shouldn't have asked. I say well I just want you to know that. He says well I just thought i was tired I can maybe crash here but I don't want to have to answer to anyone. This is the 2nd time he has said this. He is obsessed about not answering to anyone. He said on the last phone call that I like being alone and not having to answer to anyone. I don't know you guys, it almost seems like MLC more than an A and that makes it even worse. He does not want to answer to anyone. If any of you want to add Mr. T2L to your prayer list email me and I MAY possibly give you our names so you can cover this in prayer.

Oh and lets make it even worse. So H has this invention that several of our friends have helped fund pre-A. WEll we all took it to get patent searched several months back so that H would not cut out everyone. WEll he tells me tonight that he has spoken to the owner of the company and he is interested and how we get them off. I said they are my friends. IDK. So this had potential to be worth SOOOO much money and his boss can move forward with it. Oh BTW the owner of this company 8 years ago when it started cheated on his wife with the babysitter and left his wife and married her! Now with this F'ing biatch OW she may never leave if money is involved. Please pray everyone that this invention does not come to fruition until this affair is destroyed.

This is my bad i should have told DS10 before hand but I didn't think about it since he hasn't seen or spoken to his dad in almost 3 weeks. I am furious with myself for not telling DS10 before hand and once H was here I couldn't get him out.



I have retold him I cannot see him so I am hoping he gets it. I have spoken to DS10 and he understands but he did ask why and I had to explain to him. DD17 left at 11:30 and said goodbye to her dad, she texted me after she left and said dad doesn't want to leave. Why oh why oh why is this man being to stubborn. I am NOT NOT NOT taking him back unless he agrees to conditions. He may not, but at least i have control over not accepting it.

Sorry guys, another break but not because i wanted it. Truly y'all I did not invite him here and this was totally unexpected but think its covered.


So let it roll, bring on the 2x4's and feedback.... Can I just strangle the dude?

I do absolutely agree that the affair will end, and even think its already going that route even if its just a little. But He does not want to answer to anyone. Remember how he kept saying I can do what i want during the PA? He kept saying it over and over so I included it into the PBL. Well now its I don't want to answer to anyone. That has nothing to do with the affair and that may not end.

I know he's not special or different WS, but I don't feel the affair is an issue like it was previously.

If you must break Plan B, don't try to educate him, please. He's a bully and a beast for this response.

Married couples answer to each other and to God.

Soft short answers while holding the door open for him.

"I don't need to be married that badly anymore" was my soft answer.

But your husband needs to hear that and "What about God?" when he comes off with his "I don't answer to anyone". If he responds with spiritual defiance, say, "Everyone in this house answers to God - please go if you won't." If he defies, call the police.

He needs to be provoked and removed!

I have been following your story from day 1.Just so you know my situation.....Dec 06 H's affair discoverd,had been going for 2 weeks,he moves in with OW.....Dec 08 divorce goes through and he marries OW 20 days later.

Now I did plan A, was hard as he had moved out..I did a weak plan B..wrote 2 letters to him..he did a lot of "thinking" about coming home but never acted on anything.

My point is this..I spoke to him recently and he is still very fogged,did a lot of 'babbling"..IMO when they read the PBL they don't see the crux of what we are saying to them..He said that whenever I gave him a letter it just showed him that I wanted to control him and our marriage...that is all he saw....he said it pushed him further away.

I know they don't deserve us to be loving and kind to them while they are in the throws of their affair,and as hard as it is I think we should still show them unconditional love..I KNOW ITS HARD...have boundaries,sure but don't be too hard/stubborn...if you feel doing this will put you in the luney bin,then rather do a dark plan B,for your own sanity and safety.

Loving unconditionally is one of the hardest things to do..but think what it will show him...
If you want to do everything possible to save your marriage,I feel you should give a little,hand him the olive branch so to speak...life is not black or white...emotions are involved here....

You have to give in order to receive...you reap what you sow....
What are you sowing/saying to him? Try see it from his perspective,keeping in mind that his an ALIEN,but underneath that persona is your husband..and that is who you are trying to reach....love conquers all..

I know its scary and very difficult to do when your whole being is screaming for you to act differently,but what would Jesus do?

I know this is not MB way....just my opinion...don't get to caught up in theoretical plans that may not work for you...
Remember,men are proud stubborn idiots at times. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face...so to speak.!JMHO..

Hope - I don't think any of us want a "marriage at any price" kind of marriage.

What you describe brings to mind a woman taking back an unrepentant and proud man who has little or no remorse for the pain he's caused his family.

T2L MUST let her husband find the bottom. He has lost sight of his spiritual self, not just his family. There is something more important than a marriage at stake if she takes him back as he is. That is, HIS soul, Her CHILDREN's SOULS, and her own soul. You cannot invite the devil into your home, defiant of God and expect to have a home that fosters spiritual growth for all concerned.

She must go back to Plan B, and when these chance encounters happen, use soft words, and short sentences and silence to her advantage. She must give a clear message that he is not welcome in her life, by force or by invitation. He forced himself into her life last night. She needs to give the indifference message loud and clear - that she doesn't need to be married or in a relationship so badly that she'll tolerate bullying and bad behavior.

I'm not saying she must take him back if his unrepentant etc....only that she should keep the door ajar so to speak,and not to be too rigid with her stand.

KA,

Yes my has lost his spiritual self. I pray he gets to the bottom but really for God sake what is that going to take? Probably me divorcing him and 10 years later he wakes up. I don't know. I am at a loss over what the whole i don't want to answer to anyone crap is. Again I think this A is on the way down. I could be wrong but some signs point that way. Now i feel he isn't committed to either of us. I think he thinks he is so freaking great that he can do roam the earth answering to know one.

I did reiterate to him that next time the visits happen call and i will send kids out and you need to visit away from my home and please don't park your car here its too painful for me. I also said look if the roles were reversed and i asked this of you, you would throw a fit and probably go beat the OM's a$s but yet you want me to accommodate you in this and I cant and he says well i shouldn't have asked i was just tired and its late and i figured i could stay but I didn't want to answer to anyone.



Its good to be reminded of this. His soul is in the balance. My pastor said that about 4 months ago. He said that God doesnt judge as much as we think but that Mr. T2L cannot do this forever and that God will judge him at some point and he didn't want to see that for him. Thats why we've been praying. He doesn't see it. He says he still talks with God and that God loves him. He is using self righteousness so what i can even say. He understands the forgiveness of God so I cannot preach to him about it and have not preached at him during this whole 9 months.

I do understand what hopeandpray was saying about a slight crack in PB every once in a while but I will not take him back unless he is humbled, repentant, has godly sorrow and is willing to do what necessary. But I think that that lil crack of restating PBL is good.

I am at a loss for word in his whole reasoning and i just can't see him being humble enough to come home. He now thinks hes Gods gift to the earth and he needs not to answer to anyone.
I hope the OW dumps him. He told me after dday he had a dream that he saw her walk away with another man and he was devastated and he didnt have her or me, I responded by saying that was nice of the Lord to show you your future its going to happen because what starts in deception ends in deception. I really feel God was warning him. So now I remind the Lord, I say Lord you gave him that dream I know it with all that is within me because you have always spoken to Mr. T2L in dreams so I ask you to bring that to pass its the only chance he can be humbled.

IDK guys. I just dont know. Again an affair is one thing but this pride and entitlement is a whole other mess. Don't know if he can slay that giant.

He can do anything if he wants to, badly enough. But it will be his choice, not yours, unfortunately. But the only way is if he has no access, as you know. So Dark again! You can do it!

I gotta admit I'm stumped as to what would lead him to coming back and R, but PB is to protect the BS. What Kayla says makes sense to me. I like the idea of soft answers.

I wish there was some way to get through to him that this is NOT you telling him what to do. This is about YOU and what YOU will do. He's totally free to do whatever he wants. There's consequences, and what you WON'T do is protect him from those consequences. What you WILL do is protect yourself and your kids from those consequences, as best you can. I know you've told him this; I just keep thinking there must be some key, some way of saying it, that he'll understand... I know, wishful thinking. But maybe if you kept using his phrasing: you aren't telling him what to do, he's free to make whatever choice he wants. But you're free to make the choices for yourself and the family that's left.

Maybe next time he says "No one tells me what to do" you could say "ME TOO!" and see what he thinks of that. (I know, that would mean talking to him; but if the situation comes up again like it has recently...)

He obviously hates PB.

I said to him last night 3 times in a row. Look Mr. T2L I am not trying to control you,please hear me this is not about control I am not trying to control you or hurt you. I have no one to protect me anymore so I have to protect myself now(he used to pride his self on protecting me). I say I have to protect my heart. I say if its only for the fact that i am the mother or your children, you dont even have to love me at this point, but just honor the fact that i am the mother of your kids, then I would hope that this would cause you to not want to harm me any further. I have to protect my self so I am not driven to the loony bin(I said only to convey how crazy this all feels and NOT because I am losing it) But I did say many times that this is not control and I am not trying to hurt you but I cannot keep in contact with you its too painful. And mind you I am fighting back tears and he can see a few slip out. he knows I am hurting but could offer nothing but nodding and listening and well i shouldn't have asked it was probably wrong and I just dont want to answer to anyone.

So I find out last night that he had his employer change his email address about 3 weeks ago to avoid the IM's. But ya know what I just thought, hmmm then how did he get his daughters letter 2 days ago? Hmmm. Liar! Unless he checks it too on occasion. IDK doesnt matter told the IM's to go postal mail.

T2L, my DH said the SAME thing. He even told me once how he prayed with OW about her custody battle. AND once we even stopped by our old church because we knew they were having a mid-day prayer meeting, went in, and had them pray for both of us. I could NOT understand how he could fool himself into thinking that he was okay with God.

Later, after recovery, he said he KNEW that he was being defiant to God, but he was so lost, he just didn't care at the time. He said that prayer meeting at the church, hearing the words prayed and said over him nearly undid him, that he had to consciously continue to walk away, knowing full well he was in rebellion. My DH was arrogant too. The things he said to me were just plain cruel.

I began to lose hope big time after that. If God couldn't reach him, then he was probably gone for good.

What I didn't know until later is that God was still chasing after him. He put people in his path to remind him that God still loved him, wasn't done with him, even when he was out drinking in a bar. He never told me that until after we recovered.

So don't lose hope T2L. Just continue doing what you're supposed to be doing... staying in your Plan B and praying. I see what he did last night as another act of defiance and rebellion but you were unwavering. I agree with Kayla... meet him with soft answers and/or silence if he does something like this again. He's heard your requirements.

I sincerely hopes WH repeats this declaration! .... because there are UNexpected ways you might respond that will be more helpful than you defending YOUR actions ....

It is a fascinating thing he said. (WHERE is Schoolbus when you need her?)

When we don't "answer" to ANYONE it is a distancing mechanism.
It keeps people from getting too close.

"Methinks he doth protest too much"

It means .... (WS translation service activated)

DO NOT ASK ME TO CARE ABOUT OTHERS

You see, on the surface it appears to be about arrogance.

Dig deeper, it's about fear of intimacy.

Earlier you mentioned the comment in church that his Valentine's Day gift to you might as well be "walking through the door".

Does that sound like a CONFIDENT and SELF ASSURED man to anyone? Not to me !

You mentioned his EN for admiration - honey - this is a man thing .... not just your man, my man too. It's an easily filled EN - don't dismiss it so quickly as a character flaw.

The smaller the man feels on the inside, the greater his need for admiration.

He feels very small indeed.

I think it is time for some re-thinking about strategy.

I'll get back to you .... my caffeine level needs attention.

T2L, just curious, did DD say if he said anything about her letter.

I said to him last night 3 times in a row.

"three times in a row" .... you explained your motives for your actions ..... not working. Resist the desire to explain yourself next time.


Look Mr. T2L

Never begin with "LOOK" ... it sounds controlling to a waynerd ... Begin every sentence with gently speaking his first name (or a favorite intimate pet name) ... it will throw him off his "don't control me" game and assumes intimacy far more than "Look you! "


I am not trying to control you,please hear me this is not about control I am not trying to control you or hurt you.

What about - "I can see how scared you feel."


I have no one to protect me anymore so I have to protect myself now(he used to pride his self on protecting me). I say I have to protect my heart. I say if its only for the fact that i am the mother or your children, you dont even have to love me at this point, but just honor the fact that i am the mother of your kids, then I would hope that this would cause you to not want to harm me any further. I have to protect my self so I am not driven to the loony bin(I said only to convey how crazy this all feels and NOT because I am losing it) But I did say many times that this is not control and I am not trying to hurt you but I cannot keep in contact with you its too painful.

Once you've explained yourself - don't repeat. His ears are not open to this.

Instead - respond to his BODY LANGUAGE and not his words.

"You seem tense. How are you?"


And mind you I am fighting back tears and he can see a few slip out.

tears are honest

So I find out last night that he had his employer change his email address about 3 weeks ago to avoid the IM's. But ya know what I just thought, hmmm then how did he get his daughters letter 2 days ago? Hmmm. Liar! Unless he checks it too on occasion. IDK doesnt matter told the IM's to go postal mail.

Please don't tell me to "go postal" You haven't seen what happens when I go postal !...

BTW - I have been worried about your love bank - until I read your last interaction - you're not near empty -

Neak here. Apparently our phone is down. We always have problems when it rains, but right now there is nothing. We'll be going to church soon, and when I have a cell signal I'll be able to call the phone company. Grrrrr!

I think you handled a difficult situation very well. Now it's time to crack down. He needs to not get ahold of you any more. But if something unexpected happens like yesterday, just handle it as you did - graciously and firmly.

Pep, can't wait to hear what you have to say. Also, if this latest info is to be snail-mailed, I'll send you an email about that later today. Come back when you have your coffee drip hooked up.

We all fear intimacy on some level. Deep intimacy means an eventual deep heartbreaking loss.

Think about this a little while.

How can you touch this next time WS expresses his fear by way of the "control" detour? (instead of explaining your motives, yet again)

I'm hooked up!

Email brainstorming has begun.

I'd really like to give this marriage a fighting chance.
I like both of these people very much!

YES - I even like this waynerd - I like him because he's managed to produce two AMAZING kids - and that is no accident!