Some of you may reconize me from previous post concerning my sister who finally joined.

My issue is now within my own marriage. I wasn't sure where to put this really. I'm sure this a primarily a forum for infidelity but I do have a few questions that might in fact pertain to that.

We have had out share of ups and downs just like anyone else. While there has been no proof or even a real suspicion of my husband cheating, this brings me to my question.

Is it possible that men who have lack of sex from their wives or next to no sex for that matter will NOT cheat? Are their men who do not actually go out and do this?

My husband has told me many times he has not ever cheated on me, but has thought of it because of the lack of sex he gets. The lack of sex does come from me, it comes from resentment that has built up over the years due various things. He is one of these people that will do what he can or as little as he can to get by and to get what he wants from me, which would be sex. Telling me he will change some of his ways or he will do this or that, and I'll fall for it thinking he is really going to change things for himself, only for him to go right back to the way he was, after he gets sex. Over the years I finally caught on to what he was doing, and was even told by a counselor to put my foot down and that I was partially to blame by allowing his behavior. I agree it was part my fault. So I began to back off from so much sex with him for feeling like he was getting what he wanted while I was not emotionally from him.

Have we been to counseling? Yes, has he tried to work on the things the counselor has pointed out? No, its like he doesn't care to work on anything, period. He even told me the other day he was disinterested. This is NOT something that just started a few weeks or months ago, this has been going on for a few years now.

I wonder why I just don't throw in the towel. I think I'm in denial, and that I keep hoping one day I'll wake up and he will want to change himself, want to be interested in me, the kids, want to reconnect, so I can feel like I want to be with him sexually. Its been explained to him over and over again, by me and counselors on what he can do to help make things better. He just wont do it. Everything is everyone else's fault kind of deal. That's the way it is with him....there is no gray area, no seeing of the whole picture and why things might be the way they are...its just black and white, and he sees he has no hand in nothing. I know that until he sees that it will not work anyway. the problem is when is enough enough? This has been going for years now. Its no longer about him NOT knowing, or not knowing how to try, he has been given the tools and guidance, so it now makes me think its just down to it being more or less a choice. His choice is, he doesn't want to work on anything at all. he says thats not the case, but yet over the years his actions show different. Is this my cue to end it?

It just got me to thinking, is it possible that my lack of sex drive for him, doesn't mean he will seek it elsewhere? Is it possible he no longer even cares about sex himself and has just shut down? I sometimes think he wants it all to be over but doesn't know how to end it, so he keeps doing the same things to make me feel I have no other choice but to end it myself.

Please help! I'm tired of this cycle and not sure how to break it.

Hi Shimmy,

What sort of things have lead to your resentment of H? H may be seeking SF elsewhere or meeting that need solo. You withholding sex as punishment isn't helping matters. If he isn't having an A, perhaps your H doesn't bother seeking SF from you because he figures you'll turn him down so why bother most of the time. If he genuinely doesn't want to work on the M and you have taken an objective look at your role in the M, it's up to you if you want to plan D. Do you have children?

A healthy M consists of 2 people meeting eachother's needs. Men usually have SF as one of their top needs. Women usually have affection or conversation as mainly their top needs(but it isn't always). Once one S stops meeting the needs of the other S, the other one does the same. This creates an environment where a H or a W will begin to feel resentment and become withdrawn from the other. Add some entitlement and a little selfishness, mix it together with an opportunity and you get an A. They may not be looking for one, but once a EN is being met by someone else the more intimate ENs will follow.

You might want to post on the EN board. And you should purchase His Needs Her Needs. Read it together. If he won't, then you have some boundaries to establish and maintain.

A's stink. You don't want to wait until your M is affected by one to start SERIOUS work. The pain from infidelity is one that I nor most people here would wish on our worst enemies. It's debilitating. Devastating.

If you could, call Dr Harley (owner of this site). They can help you.

Good luck.

You're the one here asking for help so all I can do is give you advice on what you can do. Dr. Harley often says in situations like these is "fake it until you make it".

Someone has to go first. I had a similar thought process in which I thought I was the only one willing to wwork on my marriage. I would often think if only my DH would be more affectionate/romantic etc. I would have more SF with him. But the more I went down this path- it never worked. I needed to try somehting else. So I challenged myself to put him first. I gave him SF some times when I wasn't "feeling close" to him. Then I'd get the gumption to initiate- of course he loved it! I will neer tell him that I think sex is yucky, too much work, etc. (that makes him feel like he's not worth it).

After doing this for maybe two weeks, he began to automatically meeting my needs. You'd be surprised at how much you receieve when you start to give.

Again- we need to look at our marriages witht he mindset of how can I meet my spouses needs (without the expectation of mine beinng met).

Just my $0.02.

This article talks about the Giver and the Taker. It may help you to understand your situation better.

The Giver and the Taker

Thanks to all that have replied.

Well the thing is, I have been more of the giver and he has been more of the taker. Yes, I know and understand the root of this, and its due to his childhood and what he learned etc. It has been addressed many times in counseling. He also knows that no matter what he might have learned he can unlearn certain bevaviors if he wants. That's the problem he doesn't appear to want to.

I was told in counseling before, part of my problem was I was giving to much, and to stop. As far as the withholding sex as a punishment, I never saw it like that, and it very well could have been what I was doing. However, it was more based on the fact that it seemed real clear he was getting needs met while I was not. So I stopped "giving" so much. There were times when I did continue though to give more sex thinking he would give more to me in other areas of the marriage and he did not, it did not make a difference, so yes, that has been tried.

His mother/father was like this as well, and it was something I never could understand. What a miserable marriage for 55 years they led. To this day she tells me of the regret she had by staying with him. She would continue to lay down with a man who did her wrong in so many ways, just because she thought if she kept doing and giving, it would make a difference, unforuntalty it did NOT, and he never stopped his behaviors. She knows alot of allowing it was her fault.

I think that is my toughest thing right now, is how much to continue to give and do while he takes. I don't want to blink my eyes by 75 years old and still in the same situation just because. I do think continual things can make a difference, the problem is sometimes, knowing when you are with someone who will work on things and at what point to give up because it seems hopeless and in a situation where that particular person refuses to change for whatever reasons.

Thank you for the link, I'll be sure to check it out.

I would say he is meeting his needs either by himself or in an A. Just by what you have written, I seriously doubt he is just "going without".

Yes, there are men who would never cheat just like there are women who would never cheat. However, i would not place the person you have described into that camp as he seems very selfish to me.

What other things are you doing to stop Giving? Have you read about LBs and ENs? Are you following that program?

Shimmy,

I agree with NeedsHonesty who wrote.

Someone has to go first.

However I'm male and my situation was the reverse of hers, I felt that because my wife didn't meet my needs for SF that I was entitled to ignore her emotional needs, undermine her self-esteem and etc.

After reading on this site, Thank God I found it, I realized that I just had to meet her needs and hope she improves. The standoff we were involved in was never going anywhere. Our prides would have increased with time leading to something awful.

I figured a marriage in which I met her emotional needs and she didn't meet my SF needs was better than a marriage in which neither need is met.

NJ

ditto. Or if you cannot meet, please work on meeting on those. As opposed to having an affair or thinking the easy way out...divorce. Sorry op, dont mean to sound harsh, that is one of the reasons why my wife got into an affair.

I don't think you sound harsh. I appreciate the replies.

I saw the counselor yesterday afternoon. My husband was supposed to go but got called into work so I went. Sometimes they meet with us together sometimes individual.

Basically it boils down to the counselor saying to me, its up to you on what you feel you need to do. In other words, this is not something that we just started having issues with, months ago, we have been together for 16 years, married almost 14 and I would say out of the 14 years being married at least 9-10 years we have had some kind of issue.

I think the counselor feels he doesn't know what else to do or say, he even told me it sounded to him like I had tried most things and that a marriage is about two people. He said if one is working on it and the other is not, more than likely its not gonna work. I feel like alot of my efforts have been pointless and fallen on def ears.

I have wanted for so long for things to work, but I really think its time for me to wake up! I mean its one thing to try, and try again, but quite another when it seems it only one trying. My husband is one of these people that rolling up his sleeves and getting his hands a little dirty to actually do some work on something like the relationship, is just to hard and to much work for him. If he can do as little as possible and get by, that's what he will do. The sad thing is, that's not usually how marriages/relationships work.

I come from a family where, if there is anything worth having/keeping, then its going to require a certain amount of work, he comes from a family where if things can be either be handed to him or done for him, then that's how he feels it should be. That way he doesn't have to put forth any effort.

Maybe we're just two mismatched people who don't mesh well, with such different backgrounds. I had so wanted it to work, but can't do this anymore by myself. Thanks so much to all the replies I received.

Shimmy, this is the kind of situation that can be effectively resolved at a Marriage Builders weekend. Neither of you know how to meet the others needs and as a result, you are both bumbling around in the dark. You don't know how to meet the others needs and probably don't comprehend the lovebusters in your marriage. As a result, the romance has died.

There is no clear, logical PATH given by your "counselor" which is probably why your H won't invest. If he were given a LOGICAL PLAN that would lead to him getting what he wants, he might be more apt to participate. Most MC focus on FEELINGS, which is why MC is largely ineffective.

Most counselors do not know how to save marriages, much less how one works. That is where MB has an advantage. Marriage counseling has an 84% failure rate, which is not impressive. On the other hand, Marriage Builders CAN teach you how to fall in love again. It really does work.

Your fastest horse would be to go to a Marriage Builders weekend. They start you off on the MB course and thereafter, Dr Harley and his staff walk you through the whole program with weekly lessons, surveys, counseling, etc.

I was on this board for 6 years before I went to one and thought I really understood the whole program, but Dr Harley was able to identify a lovebuster on my part that effected my marriage in a HUGE WAY. Eliminating that one lovebuster made an amazing difference. I wish we had just gone to a MB weekend in the first place and saved ourselves years of bumbling around with trial and error.

Thank you!

And while our counselor may not have all the answers, what a wonderful person he has been in trying to help! He IMO, has been dead on about many things.

I understand what you're saying and I'd be willing to try what you have suggested. So how does this work if one spouse doesn't want anything to do with it, no matter how its presented or what its all about etc?

Most of the couples who attend the MB weekend contain a reluctant spouse. But that often changes when the spouse is given a CLEAR and rational path out of the forest. That is why many men want nothing to do with counseling. It presents no plan and has no end in sight.

Shimmy, and if your H truly refuses to participate, no matter what, then Dr. Harley will address that with him. If that can't be resolved, he might tell you that it can't be resolved and advise you to move on. He is a clinical psychologist with 35 years experience and he is pretty creative at motivating people. Even so, there are no guarantees and if it really is hopeless, he is usually very up front about that.

I never said I wouldn't participate. I said in my earlier post I'd be willing, I just wasn't sure if my spouse right now. I'm sure its a great thing to participate in.

As far as counseling, there are the quacks out there, there are some who may not know the right things to try or suggest, but there are some wonderful ones too. So sometimes its not about counseling not working, its more about the two people involved and weather they are willing to both pull together to try to make it work.

So wheather its a counselor (pastor) or a top notch psychologist, giving out advice, suggestions methods, plans to try etc etc, the real work would have to come from the two involved.

I will deffo talk to my husband about participating though. Thank you for suggesting it!

Don't you think that at this point in your marriage, it might behoove you to tell your H how disappointed you are, and that it's bad enough you're considering ending the marriage? That you need him to go to the MB Weekend, and if he's not willing, you will see it as a sign that he's not willing to fight to keep the marriage?

Not in those words, that's a threat. But you'll know how to talk to him. To let him know just how important it is. Many men simply won't change until they're faced with divorce or separation.

To some degree. If the plan makes no logical sense, one is less likely to participate. I think its important to remember that marriage counselors don't know how to save marriages. Most are little more than divorce faciliators and have a higher personal divorce rate than the general population. This is where MB has an advantage.

catperson is right, the first step is radical honesty.