Something that keeps hitting me everyday is that I don't feel that I'm important to my H. I feel that he's in love with being in love with me - maybe some idea of me, I don't know. He likes that feeling - it keeps him happy in the relationship and gives him hope. He feels generally okay. I, on the other hand, feel as though he's not really here with me. I asked him did he know what my dreams and aspirations are? Does he know me after 23 years - what my fears are, what helps me, encourages me. He didn't really know. I know we can't mind read and I know we have hidden our hearts somewhat from each other, but he looked at me blank. Sometimes I don't know what we're doing with each other.

I'm not expressing myself very well lately. What I meant was that if you turn your focus back onto yourself, the resentment may lessen. As you gain joy and fulfillment by improving yourself, your confidence and esteem will grow. I think that he will notice, and it may be enough to get him to jump on the wagon, want to go on this journey with you. Because you'll get to a point where you're the only one benefiting and he may even fear getting left behind.

I think I see what you are saying.

It's tricky because I'm trying to open up and work with him instead of continuously working solo on my journey. I've always worked on me in exclusively but it's lonely and sometimes (perhaps a lot) often from a skewed perspective on myself.

I'm trying to, from my inside out, rely on him, open up to him, value his opinion, ask for help, and show him so. However, I feel like I don't get anything back causing me to wonder if he knows me? Am I making sense?

Yeah.

Seems like the only thing you've got at this point is letting him know that you're close to giving up. Let him know that you know he's not comfortable opening up or trying a new way of thinking, but that you are finding that the way he is, is incompatible with what you need. You're working on O&H, it seems like this would be the number one thing you need to be honest about.

Would he consider going to some sort of seminar? If you showed him how serious you are about not accepting things the way they are?

He just sits back until I say "what's up? what's going on? where are we?".

I'm sure he would consider going to some sort of seminar..... what kind and where?

RE: Your last post

Has he always been this way or just lately?

Stellakat

He's always been this way.....

This reminds me of a talk my husband and I had when we were dating. He told me there were two main types of women,

Simple and complex.

The simple ones were easygoing and thier personalities were quite simple. They had simple needs and desires in marriage and in life.

The complex ones had very intricate personalities bordering on neurotic, were very deep and smart. Many things going on at once in the personality. Many things for a man to understand and deal with. A challange to a man.

I asked my husband what type I was. He said COMPLEX.
I asked what type of woman he liked-he said COMPLEX like you.

Here is what I am getting at.

Are you complex but your husband considers you as being SIMPLE? Does he miss all the many complexities of you? Is he simple or complex? How do you mesh looking at it from that point of view?

Oes s

Interesting......

I believe he sees me as complex and himself as simple. Well, I know he does. I don't know what he prefers but I have a feeling he would probably prefer someone simple. I will ask him.

So really, I should not expect for him to communicate with me other than simply, or at the very least, accept that he does much better when things are simple than complicated? When I make things simple - not complicated?

I guess what I am saying is if you are complex and he is simple then he will NEVER meet your complexities like you wish for him to do. He will always come short. He will not be able to understand the deeper you. Or your spirit or soul.

He will be happy with you no matter what and never go beyond the surface of you. You will never get much complex or deep stuff out of him either and you will be very bored with his simple personality. And simple style.

I am saying that this could cause a mismatch. My husband said he liked both simple women and complex women but liked the complex ones better and would only marry a complex woman.

I guess if you can see the mismatch you may be able to find a way around it. But who knows how much of a mismatch you have!

Your marriage could "look like a decent marriage on the outside" but what is it on the inside? Is it a deep deep deep bond or a surface type thing.

Nowis
Howsit going?
I just stopped in briefly and had a comment on a couple of issues

1) FOO issues recognized - ignored - not dealt with - you have to get to a place of release and forgiveness and you can then begin the healing process

2) I stand by the Father wound and how it is hurting your marriage and this is a large part of the FOO issues that need to be addressed

These issues are about you not your H or marriage. They affect your marriage but your H has not ability to do anything about this issue YOU DO

3) Husband is accepting you just the way you are. WOW not bad. I think Stel provided interesting insight. I think a lot of your complexities will disappear once the FOO issues are dealt with.

4) Very few men are good at reading or anticipating a womans moods or needs (pick me) if you have a need tell him. This will help train him to recognize what you need and eventually will enable him to meet your needs before you ask (he he and the women said then pigs will fly)

So if I read this situation from the information is your H is a pretty typical guy with a demanding job and trying to be a good Father and Husband while juggling multiple work demands and working on a marriage.

I worked in the computer industry and one of my friends said to me. Women are polling and men are interupt driven. Polling means the computer sends out hundreds of tiny messages every minute telling the network they are there and ready to communicate (this creates a lot of traffic on the network but gives a good indication of the health of the network).

Interupt driven means the only time there is any action taken is when a significant event takes place and something needs to be done.

So if I read your husbands comments its chill out, I love you no matter what so don't worry. Do what you need to do to start loving yourself and I will be there to love and support you.

And by the way just because your H does not articulate why he loves you does not mean there are not numerous reasons he does love you. Go back and read JL's post about men and emotional language. I know I just get a feeling I cannot live without my wife and for that reason I will stand by her and love her.

I have found the key to helping me is a better understanding of the mercy, grace, forgiveness, and love Jesus extends to his followers. It has been very freeing and I suspect the freedom you seek can be found there.

God Bless you and your family

Hey BCB

Still in Mexico? How are things there? How are things back at home?


I have talked about this endlessly with therapists. It is, for me, it seems, a long ongoing process. Forgiveness with regards to my dad has not been an overnight thing. When will the healing kick in? that's what I want to know.


Specifically, how does this hurt my M?


I don't understand what you mean?


I don't think it is that he just accepts me the way that I am (and he will agree with this). He prefers to just have a quiet life. He hasn't in the past made much effort with me, and he doesn't run to make the effort now. He pretty much is only just putting in the effort now because I have severely rocked the boat. Or, it has been easier to look at me and say 'poor you, you had a rocky childhood but I'm okay'. Go away and get help then everything can be okay again. He has realized in the past few months how much he has 'checked out' of this M because it was easier for him and he wanted a quiet life.

I know, I know. I am not asking him to mind read. I'm asking him what he desires from me. How he sees me, how things could be better, how I could be better. After 23 years you think he would have something to say?

After all this, are you saying that it's okay that he has nothing to say? Are you saying that he doesn't need to know me. Are you saying that we don't need to be closer? Are you saying that this is as good as it gets?

I know he loves me already I don't doubt that but am I not to expect anything more from him? Is that what you're saying - it's my problem, my issues, and my perspective and he doesn't have to change anything?

I know he loves me already I don't doubt that but am I not to expect anything more from him? Is that what you're saying - it's my problem, my issues, and my perspective and he doesn't have to change anything?

What do you want from him? An understanding of your inner self? Passion ONLY for you?

What if you married a man who is happy with 89% of women out there. Because he is just a happy man who has low expectations. He ALSO loves YOU. Yet he is not picky when it comes to women. But he did fall in love with you at one time, even though you two do not match well in all areas. He may love you even though he does not understand you most of the time, but you may not feel understood or "cared for/understood".

If it were me in your shoes, I would figure out FIRST, where we DID NOT MATCH, then I would try and figure out how to compromise given each of your individual personalities,, your different intelligence quotients maybe way different sense of humor, a differing need for passion,, and different interests or values. There are also differing life goals. And different hobbies. And different ideas of what is attractive. Is he ugly to you or very attractive physically?

Figure out first, WHERE YOU GUYS ARE DIFFERENT, and WHAT IS LACKING, then you can figure out where YOU DO MESH, and HOW YOU ARE IN LOVE!

Hey, did you ever think that NEITHER of you need to change a thing,, that you JUST SIMPLY DO NOT MESH And you accidently married a person you do not mesh with> ? It could happen.

Stellakat



This was so insightful. I would say that my H perhaps does not see himself as having low expectations but would say that he was 'flexible' when he met me. He thinks we match well in most areas but does not understand me most of the time.

So, what do I want from him? I think I want him to embrace my inner self when I reveal it and to acknowledge that it does matter and that he loves me and not the outer/surface me. Even saying that I know it's a tall order!



Gosh, I've not looked at it this way before...... wow.... duh?! I think that will help me to understand him better and not to be disappointed that we just don't seem to be getting closer. He is physically attractive, in great shape and has a youthful look about him despite the grey hair kicking in big time now (but I like grey hair a lot!). He never made my knees weak but there is a solidness, calmness and warmth about him that I always loved.

I'm going to work on this right away. Thanks Sk

Stellakat


Not change a thing?!?! If that was the case, what would you do? Just carry on the way you are? Learn fast to accept and compromise? What would that marriage look like and how does it survive? I guess like we are now?

Hi Nowis
Actually I am in University in Hawaii - I know tough gig

Anyway

1) The FOO issues affects the filter how you perceive how people operate, and in particular families and how trust is established and developed. So because of the wounds you received during your childhood as you ride this bike called marriage and the wound from your childhood is on your leg and as you pedal you feel the pain. Until the wound is healed riding the bike will not be much fun. In fact you may be looking at the bike and thinking it is what is causing your pain.

2) So you are saying he is now engaged because you rocked the boat. Has he indicated a timelimit for this engagement or is it a fear you have that he will only engage for a short period of time. Have you asked him if he has learned and is willing to take long term corrective action? When he did not know the questions you asked him did you tell him how that made you feel and what your expectations are? I get the message that he has to bring his A game now, and I am not defending all of his actions just that he sounds like a normal male.

I am not saying this is as good as it gets. I am saying this is where it is now. It is not a disaster, it is rebuildable. Just like a 23 year old piece of equipment that needs modifications and restoration your marriage seems to be at a place where with some work from both parties can be viable perhaps even fulfilling.

Satisfaction can depend on what filters we run circumstances through. It depends on what we believe our rights are. It depends on our perspective on a whole variety of factors from thankfulness to sacrifice.

I went to see the movie FIREPROOF the other day I thought it had a pretty good message. Have you seen it?

Re my situation I am separated from my wife and from what I understand she is still seeing her "friend". I do not believe a marriage can have 3 people in it so I am not contacting her. However I continue to work on myself and work on my intention of letting God mold me into being the best man I can be. And with Gods help I will get there.

Keep moving forward Nowis. You are in my prayers

Not change a thing?!?! If that was the case, what would you do? Just carry on the way you are? Learn fast to accept and compromise? What would that marriage look like and how does it survive? I guess like we are now?
_________________________

No, not exactly.....What I would do is find the ways you DO NOT MESH, the things YOU FEEL YOU NEED from him and then find special ways of articulating what you need. To do all this, you both need to carry on the WAYS YOU REALLY ARE!

Once you both look closely AT HOW YOU EACH REALLY ARE, then perhaps, once you understand how each other is and what makes each other tick, then perhaps you will be able to communicate with the other one better, maybe even in thier language.

Hopefully a tiny bridge of "deep need communication" will be built by you or by both (since you are the one who seems to have more unmet needs here you might be the one who has to take the lead) that will join both of you so you can cross that large dark chasm.

Sometimes it is hard to learn to speak about deep needs. I had to learn how to do it. You must take only ONE need at a time, more than one is too hard.

:RollieEyes: :)Step one is to first view the NEED itself, observe the need, get to know the need in yourself, accept the need, accept that you have that need, accept yourself for having needs and that need in particular and love yourself and that need and gradually all your needs you are realizing.

:oStep two would be to look at your mate and see them as they are.

Step three would be to learn to SPEAK out, and speak ABOUT your one need, the first need you want to articulate and share,,,,, to the mate. In a positive, loving happy way. With total awareness of what that need is.

I hope you can try this! It really helps a relationship get closer. And I hope you can learn to become aware of your needs in such a deep way that you can learn to ARTICULATE them to another human being. And I hope if you articulate a need clearly and in a very good way to your husband, taking into account his limitations and his personality, in order to really really communicate to him, that he responds and understands where you are coming from.

Perhaps, if you hammer down your own needs, two or three of them at first, and then if you learn really well how to articulate those needs to another human being, perhaps then you will be able to articulate this to your husband. Once he has understood and heard your language, this language, the special language of "expressing deep human needs" coming from your mouth,,,,well, he may just learn to express his deep needs to you!

If you both express your deepest needs to each other and both understand the other one, then neither one of you HAS TO CHANGE YOUR PERSONALITIES, RATHER, YOUR COMMUNICATION OF DEEP NEEDS WILL CREATE A SOLID TINY BRIDGE OF LOVE ...OR YOUR LOVE WILL CREATE A BRIDGE OF UNDERSTANDING....SO THAT YOU CAN MESH IN THIS WAY AND STILL KEEP YOUR PERSONALITITES INTACT, WITHOUT CHANGE.

(I am sorry I dont know where this stuff is coming from tonite but if it helps go for it!)

Nowis,

I believe a long time ago we had a disussion about him being needed and you being independent. I think you are seeing his reaction to what he has read and the "neediness" he had for you all of these years.

You said
You are not trying too hard, but I am not sure you are trying effectively. Reflect on your first sentence. Do you see how it feels to not be needed? If I am not mistaken he felt this way as well.

You asked what to do. Perhaps a discussion about your learning to appreciate being needed. You did not need him for years and it showed. He is not needing you now and it shows. What works best is a balance were you both are needed by the other. How you say? Easy, we all have needs, hence the EN questionaire. Why don't you two have a discussion about what you need, and interestingly enough one of your needs is...to be needed.

But, there is more. The only way he will open up to you, or you open up to him so that you two can become a integral part of each other is to forgive one another and trust one another.

You BOTH need to be needed, and then respected for your efforts.
And then loved for your strengths AND weaknesses. It is often our flaws that give us character.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

... bad timing ...