So this is almost verbatim what I was going to say. I believe that my WH left, though, to not only continue the A, but also to add weight to his argument that we would have "ended up in the same place" despite the A.

Since there is not verfied data about R for either situation, I've got to wonder how is it helpful to look at this? As a BS in Plan B whose WH has moved out, I felt a little less hopeful reading this thread. Does anyone have anything positive to add -- i.e. walkaways can also come back and R can happen?

bestfriend439, So sorry you are having to go through all of this...

It is extremely helpful to NEW people that arrive here that they know what to expect...

If they are dealing with a cake eater spouse they learn that they MUST do a very good Plan A so that the WS can see for themselves what a GOOD marriage could be like with the BS...

I also feel that the cake eater doesn't really want to "leave the BS" they are trying to fill in the "blanks" in their EN with the OP.

The cake eaters spouse has a chance to let the WS compare them with the OP...

If they are dealing with a walk away spouse the duration of the Plan A before going to Plan B would be much shorter JMHO than if they were not because the WS is not debating whether or not to leave...

They have already left...

You not only have to talk them out of not leaving...

You then have to talk them into coming back to a situation they have already decided to leave. Plus you then have to deal with them justifying their decision to leave in addition to everything else.

Jim

It's happening right now...to me. Ike moved out and came back on his own. We are attempting R now and I have to say, our relationship is better than it has been...EVER, probably. So, don't lose hope. It can and does happen.

Yeah, Verve!!!!
Thank you for posting this!

You know, at one point, I thought that OW was a replacement for me and that made me feel like crap. Then I had an epiphany. The OW can never replace me because she is not me and never will be. She settled for second best by choosing a man who was already married. I thought that I was second choice, but I wasn't. I was first, always, because I was the one who was loved enough to be married to. OW was second best because she let her self be that. She let herself be a piece of [censored] by believing that it was "love" or whatever. So, this is the way that I chose to see it. I am not, nor have I ever been, second best.

I quoted you, Jim, because I wanted to agree with the justification thing. Yeah, it's silly and annoying because the WS can use ANYTHING to justify their A. For Ike, it was that I was a negative person and he just couldn't live like that anymore. Whatever. I'm not a negative person...I was just unhappy at where things were at in our relationship, though more subconsciously than anything, and it showed. When I'm happy, it shows.

But, I wanted to disagree with the "talking the WS" into coming back thing. I don't know if there is a way to talk them into coming back. They have to want to come back on their own. I asked Ike if I talked him into it, and he said, you tried, but that wasn't what made me come home. I came home because I wanted to.

So, just wanted to throw that out there.

You're welcome BF! I know that when I was in PB I was curious about the statistics (along with LilDoggie who is also in R). Don't lose hope, but don't have false hope. Use your time to work on yourself, really. I learned a lot about myself. I learned that I CAN trust my instincts and that I AM a good person and that, not to toot my own horn, I'm a pretty good advice giver (just not taker!). Get to know yourself during this time. You won't regret it no matter what the outcome.

My H was also a walk away, he moved in with OW before I even knew she existed. We are now approaching 2 years in recovery.

I am probably going to get blasted for saying this and I am anticipating being told that it is not helpful, but it is something I have noticed on MB and it bothers me a great deal.

So here it goes. It seems like I keep reading about people who are doing great plan B's and are not seeing their WS's return. But the people that I have seen do terrible plan B's are in recovery.

This is limited to the few people who I have followed their threads over the past year, but it really does bother me.

Yes I know that plan B is part of MB and this is MB's website which is precisely why I do not comment anymore to people who are contemplating or are in plan B.

Of course a WAS can come back and recover. It can happen. It might be more difficult in some respects, but it can happen. Whether the WS is a cake eater or WAS, both are living with a twisted mentality. Some people wake up and some don't. There are a lot more factors to consider, but in either case I don't believe the WS "loves" the AP. They may think they do. They might like the thrill but I think it's more lust or the "idea" of the OP than anything else.

Verve, Great post full of hope especially to all the people in Plan B. You are a true success story!

However, it should be noted, Plan B IS talking someone into coming back because of the CONDITIONS and HOPE FOR A GREAT MARRIAGE that you tell your WS for coming back i.e. No contact, meeting EN, working on the marriage etc.

I do not believe that you would have accepted Ike back into the marriage if he had not met your conditions for the above.

If it had been acceptable with you for him to keep the OW you would not have put conditions on him for coming home and told him (talked him into) that a great marriage could be possible.

If you had let him keep the OW he would have been a cake eater rather than a walk away spouse...

It is a credit to both you and to your FWH that he LISTENED to you and what could be possible for both of you.

God bless.

Jim

No blasting from me. While some MB concepts have merit, I have problems with others.

I think it really depends on the WS. I did a terrible PB and we are in recovery and doing well. However, Lildoggie did a great PB and she is in recovery and doing well, too. A really great PB would NOT have worked with Ike, not at all. While not talking to me bothered him greatly, when he DID talk to me (my crappy PB) it made him want to talk to me more. He saw changed in me that he wouldn't have seen if I had been completely dark. So...that's my $0.02.

TTLIG, you have been such a source of help and knowledge though this, for me. I do agree with something that you said to me during the A...I can see similarities in our situations. I always enjoyed talking to you and I think we have similar outlooks on things. So, just wanted to say a big THANK YOU again!

Awww, Jim, thanks! I don't know if we are a success story (we'll see as time goes by), but I know that I am one because I changed how I saw myself and really looked inward, which is something that is important to me.

I talked to Ike more about the "talking them back to the relationship" thing and here is what we decided. While a BS can give the WS a reason to want to come back (a great spouse, welcoming home, kids, etc) they ultimately have to decide it themselves. They have to be ready and willing to deal with the boundaries. Perhaps it's even a growing up for some WS's because they finally see that all relationships in their life DO have boundaries and that they need to respect them.

I do see your point about "talking them into it" but I see it more as giving them a reason. I find it very difficult to talk Ike into anything, but if I show him the logicial aspects, there is more of a chance that he will agree (I'm very good at logical reasoning when it comes to that, hah!). So, I guess that is my way of talking him into things (but don't tell him that!). Hmmm...so I do agree with you. Thanks for helping me see a new point!!! I'm always ready and willing to think of things in a new way!

p.s. I just hate to think of it as talking him into it because who wants a spouse that you had to talk into coming home? Then again, I guess that is what we do when we are dating, right? Talking them into loving us? Lots to think about here.

Do you mean they had contact during plan b? I still struggle with this, because knowing my WH, I feel like I needed PB to get stronger and to recover, but that to for him to even consider the "conditions" he may need to have contact with a healthier me. I don't feel like I was too healthy (or attractive, for that matter) after dDay just from the shock of it all, but that I am in a better place now.
I know that I will be in an even better place as time goes on, but I'm afraid that I am missing a window here to engage my WH. He is still in contact with OW, but I don't believe he is seeing her at all....

Let's clarify a point here. I'm interpreting "walk-away" as the spouse that ups and leaves immediately or almost immediately after D-day. A spouse that stays for a while (cake eating most likely) while the BS implements Plan A for a bit, then leaves isn't quite the same thing. There are dynamics going on in the meantime, Plan A and others that affect this.

I can't say MB failed in my case at all. I really only had a couple of days from finding MB and him moving out to read, learn and attempt to apply Plan A (which up to that point I'd done a poor job of). But even after I abandoned recovery, I still applied some of MB principals and guess what - the jerk responded predictably, in a text book fashion. I can never say for 100% sure if I could have got him back, had I applied the Plans properly and thoroughly. But I can't say that I wouldn't have, either.

Many of the failed marriages here are due more to incorrect application of the plans. Slow or no exposure. No consequences to the A - that sort of thing. Although again, it's really hard to apply Plan A when he's out the door before you even know he's cheating.

Very difficult. I had no idea of an affair until about a week and a half after he left. And, at that point, it was nearly impossible to track him down.

I didn't really get to do a PA because Ike left 10 days after dday and I had no idea about MB. Of course, I honestly don't think that even PA would have saved us at that time. He was bound and determined to go and had to just find an excuse. I didn't find MB until May and he was out in April, so during that time there was some crazy crap going on!!

I agree Tabby that a WAS is one that leaves immediately or almost immediately after dday, not one who stays for awhile.

It doesn't sound like you did a plan A, did you? From my understanding of MB you need to do a great plan A before you plan B. I agree completely with what you said, if your H does not know that you have changed and doesn't see that he could have a good marriage with you then why would he even consider coming home? I know my H thought I did not love him and didn't care that he left, if I had never convinced him to talk to me (told him I needed closure) he would not have looked back. He walked away, filed D, and moved in with OW, he was moving on with his life until I let him know that I had changed, I did love him, and we could get through this together.

No, I did a plan A, some before I knew about MB, when I thought WH had ended contact and wanted to work on marriage. He then said it wasn't working and ILYBNILWY and moved out ("I think we are over.") I was angry and hurt and committed mucho LB and then 6 weeks later I found out that he had never ended contact and that we were still in the middle of the affair.
At that point I had found MB, I exposed and tried to do a great plan a, which was hard because he was already moved out and I was incredibly raw. I even talked with Steve H and WH even talked with him once (to help me, not the M).
Anyway, I went to Plan B after about a month and then I finally started to get healthier. Stopped crying daily, no phone, text or email LBing (which I didn't do in Plan A, but prior to MB) and started to focus on myself.
He knows where I stand, but I can't help but wonder, will he lose whatever love he says he still has if we are in no contact? Sometimes I feel like mine is draining just because he seems to not miss me at all, but then again he is absolutely respecting my requests by not contacting me and by taking care of the finances.
IDK!!! ARRRGGGHHHH!!!

I understand those feelings completely and I honestly have no good answer for you! Just know that there are others that you can talk to and share with, others who have been there and know how you feel. Also, YOU CAN DO IT!

My FWH was a little of both. He was cake eating after D-Day, sneaking around, lying about his where abouts and phone calls, and contact. Then when i dicovered contact again and gave him the ultimatum of "me or her", he left and moved in with her. It was only for three nights until he called me begging to come home and that he had made a mistake.

I still am not sure which was worse, it was very hard to see this man who i love just look me in the face and tell me that he loves me and that he wants our marriage to work and the whole time he is lying and sneaking around behind my back and probably telling her the same thing.

But it was also very hard when he told me that he wanted to be with her and he left.

No matter what it sucks to be betrayed in that way!!!!!